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Thread: Tate Myre (16), Hana St. Juliana (14), Justin Shilling (17) & Madisyn Baldwin (17) killed in school shooting in Oxford Michigan

  1. #51
    Senior Member jennafyre's Avatar
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    I have read a few times that Michigan does NOT have a law that requires firearms to be locked/secured. Maybe after this Michigan will consider changing their state law to require gun owners to be more responsible because it is obvious (at least these parents/gun owners) that it is not common practice just to be safe.

    Also, I am curious if the drawing he made was being interpreted as him asking for help and that he was at risk of suicide, not mass shooting. That would make sense then for the school to ask parents to have him in counselling within 48 hours and thinking he would at least be safe (from hurting himself) if he was in class rather than (possibly) home alone?

  2. #52
    Moderator puzzld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angiebla View Post
    I wonder how extensively the parents knew of their son's mental illness? Why didnt they take him home that day that the school recommended it? Were they in denial or just shitty parents?
    Maybe it's an "and" not an or. But based on the fact that they didn't stick around to support their son, advocate for him to get help? Shitty parents, terrible human beings. NUTJOBS.
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    lol at Nestle being some vicious smiter, she's the nicest person on this site besides probably puzzld. Or at least the last person to resort to smiting.
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  3. #53
    Moderator puzzld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisedbywolves View Post
    Yes. DEEP red west Texas.



    Does it really matter? It is pretty much the same thing.



    $100k, but that was 28 years ago. Their home insurance ended up paying it. I never really understood how it covered it, but it did.
    I've got to say, I'm kind of amazed by that. Your parent's son wasn't a minor child who could be assumed to be under his parents care, right? Or am I misremembering?
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    lol at Nestle being some vicious smiter, she's the nicest person on this site besides probably puzzld. Or at least the last person to resort to smiting.
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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by puzzld View Post
    I've got to say, I'm kind of amazed by that. Your parent's son wasn't a minor child who could be assumed to be under his parents care, right? Or am I misremembering?
    Yeah, he was only 14.

  5. #55
    Senior Member KimTisha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Babe 73 View Post
    They want to make it all about race so badly, then let's go there:

    How many school shootings are carried out by Black People versus White.


    I'll wait........



    Yeah, let's talk about school shootings and race. LETS.
    Sounds like your FB people are jackholes (why are they your friends???), but...

    OK, I'll bite. As a federal employee, we were required to crunch numbers monthly/quarterly. I'm doing here what I was required to do when I worked for Uncle Sam, so don't shoot the messenger - it's a natural reaction when I see statistics.

    First, mass shooting events are generally deemed to be incidents in which four or more people are shot and/or killed in a single incident. The FBI has a definition for a mass murderer (four or more people KILLED in a single incident NOT including the shooter), but none for "mass shooting" where some of the victims don't die. In 2013, Congress defined "mass killing" as three or more people dead, but the FBI doesn't appear to have followed suit. Mass murder differs from spree killings by the number of locations (Pulse Nightclub vs DC Sniper).

    Mass shooting events are intentionally public. The shooter rarely wants to remain anonymous and often goes out in a blaze of glory. We rarely have a mass shooting event where the perpetrator is unknown or is wrongfully convicted. I don't know where your numbers came from, but the 12 "unknown/unclear" events in your list are most likely unsolved incidents (family anihilators, drive-by shootings, etc.). The numbers you posted are ALL mass shootings, not just school shootings. If we were to look only at mass school shooting events, I believe the statistics would indicate white males commit the vast majority of those crimes. If we were to look at incidents of school shootings that don't meet the criteria of "mass shooting," I believe the statistics would indicate black males commit the vast majority of those crimes. At least that was the case the last time I did a deep dive into those numbers with the Dept of Education. That was around 2013(?), Arne Duncan was Secretary. Eight additional years of data may change that, but I doubt it.

    However.... you can't look at raw numbers like this without looking at the bigger picture, because according to the numbers you posted, blacks disproportionately committed more mass shootings than other races as reflected below. The reasons for this are complex and varied, but some of it can be attributed to the definition of mass shooting itself (and that's why I went through all that explanation up there).

    White (60% of the population) - committed 53% of the shootings
    Black (12% of the population) - committed 17% of the shootings
    Hispanic (18.5% of the population) - committed 8% of the shootings
    Asian (6% of the population) - committed 5% of the shootings
    Native American (2% of the population) - committed 2% of the shootings

    In a perfect world, we would analyze these numbers to determine how we can help communities disproportionately affected and/or improve the reporting system; but this isn't a perfect world, so mostly we just don't talk about it at all. Sad.
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  6. #56
    Moderator puzzld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisedbywolves View Post
    Yeah, he was only 14.
    Wow. I didn't realize that.
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    lol at Nestle being some vicious smiter, she's the nicest person on this site besides probably puzzld. Or at least the last person to resort to smiting.
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  7. #57
    Senior Member curiouscat's Avatar
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    On my cell.
    https://www.newsweek.com/oxford-high...r-says-1656451
    This article is basically saying that school officials may be charged for letting Ethan stay on campus.
    Next, let's charge all the students even the dead ones.
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    I don't have a thousand dollars hanging around to buy a fart in a jar lol.

  8. #58
    Moderator puzzld's Avatar
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    Long article about school shooters and parental involvement

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md...tOMsCSp8gqAgT0
    Many parents of school shooters ignore glaring warning signs. This one didn?t.
    When Catherine O?Connor discovered her grandson was planning an attack, she did what few parents do: reported a child she loved to police
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    lol at Nestle being some vicious smiter, she's the nicest person on this site besides probably puzzld. Or at least the last person to resort to smiting.
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  9. #59
    Senior Member Bella's Avatar
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    I pass this diner every day on the way to the high school.


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcbyC1NEmHc

  10. #60
    What do you care? Boston Babe 73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bella View Post
    I pass this diner every day on the way to the high school.


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcbyC1NEmHc
    Was he drunk? Wtf
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    That is too pretty to be shoved up an ass.
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  11. #61
    Senior Member Daisychain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by curiouscat View Post
    On my cell.
    https://www.newsweek.com/oxford-high...r-says-1656451
    This article is basically saying that school officials may be charged for letting Ethan stay on campus.
    Next, let's charge all the students even the dead ones.
    Man, this is bullshit. I understand that this community is in pain and wants someone to blame, but both those educators reacted immediately on consecutive days, they tried to get the parents to take him home that day. It was the parents who were unresponsive and neglectful, not the school...how the fuck were they supposed to know his dad just bought him a brand new sig sauer? They were doing what they thought was right for this kid based on the information they had at the time. The kind of pain/illness/hatred/whatever that was plaguing this boy does not appear overnight. I read that he had no disciplinary issues on record until the day before, if this is true he either hid it really well or was completely neglected by his parents and fell through the cracks at school. It happens. But the prosecution of schools/educators would likely be the type of thing that might set an example or appease a crowd, but backfire down the line when schools are scared to make high pressure decisions and people's kids are left in the lurch.

  12. #62
    What do you care? Boston Babe 73's Avatar
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    That's an understatement. From the outside looking in, it's as if they encouraged it. They were obviously aware that it was going to happen and they supplied the murder weapon.
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  13. #63
    Cousin Greg Angiebla's Avatar
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    Wow these parents did have their heads up to their own asses. It like they literally didnt care about their son. If he had been depressed, werent they worried he would off himself if they gave him a gun? I wonder if they knew he was torturing animals.

    Im going back and forth between thinking this kid was a sociopath or had legit mental health issues. The writing of "Help the thoughts wont stop" is literally a cry for help.

    I usually dont get this mad at parents of murders but fuck, these guys suck.

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  14. #64
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    I wonder if they bought him the gun hoping he would kill himself. The money trouble, ignoring a struggling kid in order to care for horses, only worrying about themselves after he was arrested and some of the other details coming out make it sound like they didn't want to be bothered with being parents.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmIAnnoying View Post
    I wonder if they bought him the gun hoping he would kill himself. The money trouble, ignoring a struggling kid in order to care for horses, only worrying about themselves after he was arrested and some of the other details coming out make it sound like they didn't want to be bothered with being parents.
    I wondered that too.

  16. #66
    Moderator puzzld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisedbywolves View Post
    I wondered that too.
    Me, three.
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    lol at Nestle being some vicious smiter, she's the nicest person on this site besides probably puzzld. Or at least the last person to resort to smiting.
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  17. #67
    Senior Member Daisychain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by puzzld View Post
    Me, three.
    Holy shit this did not occur to me (which is odd lol) but this makes me feel even more sure that these parents sealed their child's and the fates of his victims. I honestly felt bad for the kid (not over his victims) but in the beginning when we knew nothing I knew that the kid must have been in unendurable pain because that stuff doesn't come out of nowhere, he was probably screaming for help and I know how that feels. (Minus the homicidal ideation!) But with the other bits of evidence coming out it is just so much of a tragedy. For everyone, but most of all the four victims and yes even Ethan because he needed help and he deserved it too, before a horse. And also that shit was completely preventable. Japan and Germany and Britain have no gun violence because they have no guns. (Yeah yeah I know they are allowed to own them but their laws are incredibly strict)

  18. #68
    Scoopski Potatoes Nic B's Avatar
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    If I were his mom, I would be worried that by giving him a gun, he would shoot ME.


    Quote Originally Posted by marakisses View Post
    yes i said i will leave it under you storage he said cuddle with me i said shut up it over??? what am i doing wrong??
    Quote Originally Posted by curiouscat View Post
    Happy Birthday! I hid a dead body in your backyard to celebrate. Good luck finding it under the cement. You can only use a stick to look for it.

  19. #69
    Senior Member KimTisha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bella View Post
    I pass this diner every day on the way to the high school.


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcbyC1NEmHc
    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Babe 73 View Post
    Was he drunk? Wtf
    My immediate thought when I saw this video was that he was doing whippits in the walk-in cooler. I worked in a Jersey diner when I was younger, and one of our cooks was always sneaking into the cooler to do whippits after his shift ended. He was a responsible huffer.
    Last edited by KimTisha; 02-03-2022 at 07:30 AM.
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  20. #70
    Scoopski Potatoes Nic B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimTisha View Post
    My immediate thought when I saw this video was that he was doing whippits in the cooler. I worked in a Jersey diner when I was younger, and one of our cooks was always sneaking into the cooler to do whippits after his shift ended. He was a responsible huffer.
    Ha! I am just now reading an old thread about a chick who died after huffing. Funny coincidence.


    Quote Originally Posted by marakisses View Post
    yes i said i will leave it under you storage he said cuddle with me i said shut up it over??? what am i doing wrong??
    Quote Originally Posted by curiouscat View Post
    Happy Birthday! I hid a dead body in your backyard to celebrate. Good luck finding it under the cement. You can only use a stick to look for it.

  21. #71
    Moderator Bewitchingstorm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisedbywolves View Post
    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...rial-rcna17627

    Judge orders parents of suspected Michigan school shooter to stand trial
    Good. They are 100% culpable.

  22. #72
    Moderator Bewitchingstorm's Avatar
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    His parents are culpable. His own mother texted Ethan after the first 911 call to say, 'Ethan don't do it'. The father raced home after the shooting to see if the gun was still there or if Ethan had taken it. They attended a conference at the school that morning due to Ethan's behavior. They didn't lock up the gun or ammo so he had full access to it.

  23. #73
    What do you care? Boston Babe 73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisedbywolves View Post
    https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/23/us/et...ial/index.html

    Accused Michigan school shooter's parents will face involuntary manslaughter charges, judge rules
    Good
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    That is too pretty to be shoved up an ass.
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    You can take those Fleets and shove them up your ass



  24. #74
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    https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/24/us/et...day/index.html

    Teen pleads guilty in Michigan high school shooting that killed 4 students



    I wonder if he will testify against his parents now? I hope so.
    Last edited by raisedbywolves; 11-27-2022 at 02:22 PM.

  25. #75
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    YES!!!

    https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/23/us/cr...ing/index.html

    Ethan Crumbley’s parents should stand trial for involuntary manslaughter, appellate court says

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