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Thread: Uber driver Timothy Perkins (60) was allegedly stabbed to death by a 16 year old boy and a 15 year old girl

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    Uber driver Timothy Perkins (60) was allegedly stabbed to death by a 16 year old boy and a 15 year old girl

    https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/...aying-75569942

    A 16-year-old boy and 15-year-old girl are being charged as adults in the robbery and fatal stabbing of an Uber driver in Detroit.
    Last edited by raisedbywolves; 11-23-2022 at 12:53 PM.

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    Cousin Greg Angiebla's Avatar
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    I'm glad they are charging these little shits as adults.

    That poor guy was just doing his job

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    Senior Citizen Nomad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angiebla View Post
    I'm glad they are charging these little shits as adults.

    That poor guy was just doing his job
    Yes. Fuck these assholes.
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    Senior Member KimTisha's Avatar
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    The Nancy Grace Podcast just had a very similar story about a female UberEats driver killed in the same fashion. I think it was two 14yo boys. Is this a thing now? What do they expect to get out of an Uber driver? It's not like a cabbie who (often) deals in cash.

    I'm really not comfortable with juveniles ever being charged as adults, although I concede it's tempting at times. What these two did is heinous.

    I successfully raised three strong-willed and independent children through to adulthood (two of them boys!) and I do consider it a huge achievement. I can vouch for the often incomprehensible stupidity of seemingly intelligent teenagers who should 'know better.' It is undisputed fact that the frontal lobe is not fully developed until the age of twenty-five. These two kids are nine and ten years younger than that - slightly more than halfway to full development!

    The juvenile justice system needs a massive overhaul, no doubt about it. The goal should be to rehabilitate those who can be rehabilitated, so they can reenter the world as useful members of society. I'm no bleeding heart, and I'm often criticized for being too pragmatic and unemotional; but so many of these kids never stood a chance at home/on the streets. A stint in the JJS should be a safe place to get help and learn the skills they need to survive in the world. They will get none of that in an adult prison. In fact, trying them as adults means we've totally given up on them before they've even been tried and convicted. It means we're going to completely overlook the science that tells us in the next 9-10 years, their frontal lobes (just like their visible bodies) will continue to develop and the connection between the amygdala and the pre-frontal cortex will finally mature, allowing them to think more rationally, understand consequences, exercise better judgment, and control their emotions - to stop acting like.... well, like juveniles!

    In general, I think we have more compassion for animals than we do juvenile offenders. We (myself included) are outraged when 'tigers go all tiger' and end up being euthanized because of the stupidity of man. Who are we pissed at when that happens? The stupid humans who should know better, not the tiger. I propose there is little difference in the situation at hand: Shitty parenting [stupidity] results in juveniles [tigers] doing bad things, and they end up being euthanized by those who lock them up. And if their lives aren't literally snuffed out, their minds are, their hopes and dreams are. There are better ways and there are programs out there that are making a difference. I don't think we should turn our backs on any juvenile without trying first. Just my two cents worth.
    Last edited by KimTisha; 01-30-2021 at 09:13 PM.
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    My argument would be that we keep dangerous wild animals away from society (as best we can), so if teenagers are really this undeveloped and potentially dangerous, should they not be kept away from the rest of society if we weren't going to hold them responsible for their behaviour? IDK, but that's what popped in my head while reading your post KT.

    Also, I have know some juveniles who go through juvy and get all kinds of help and they always come out worse than before. I kind of feel like once you're in the system, even if it's a juvenile system, you're kind of a lost cause. Maybe I'm cynical, but I think people don't change much, even after they get older. Your basic value system and blueprint has already been set by that point IMO. There might be one in 1000 that actually rehabilitates and leads a good life, but I think most of these kids are just hopeless if they commit a crime like this as a teenager.

    I realize that their brain may not be developed, and they are impulsive, but it takes something horrible in their brain to kill someone, and that doesn't go away when they get older.

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    Moderator puzzld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisedbywolves View Post
    My argument would be that we keep dangerous wild animals away from society (as best we can), so if teenagers are really this undeveloped and potentially dangerous, should they not be kept away from the rest of society if we weren't going to hold them responsible for their behaviour? IDK, but that's what popped in my head while reading your post KT.

    Also, I have know some juveniles who go through juvy and get all kinds of help and they always come out worse than before. I kind of feel like once you're in the system, even if it's a juvenile system, you're kind of a lost cause. Maybe I'm cynical, but I think people don't change much, even after they get older. Your basic value system and blueprint has already been set by that point IMO. There might be one in 1000 that actually rehabilitates and leads a good life, but I think most of these kids are just hopeless if they commit a crime like this as a teenager.

    I realize that their brain may not be developed, and they are impulsive, but it takes something horrible in their brain to kill someone, and that doesn't go away when they get older.
    eh. I agree to a point. There are some people who for whatever reason are just bad. We both know some of them. There are others that are young and dumb and do stupid things, really stupid things sometimes... But they manage to grow up and lead good lives. The problem is, the "system" is terrible at sorting them out. I know several people who were in big time trouble when they were 13, 15, 17 etc., who managed to turn into solid citizens. I also know a couple others who, had anyone known how they'd turn out? We could have saved a whole lot of heart ache if we'd seen to it that they'd never be born. It's a crap shoot. There are kids who kill for a thrill, kids who kill someone while doing a stupid dangerous thing, and kids who feel trapped by say an abusive parent. They all need to be in the system, but only some few of them are a total lost cause.

    Then too, the "system" seems to have lost all hope of rehabilitating anyone. And the system doesn't even seem to attempt to sort out the people who are sick or addicted and in need of treatment, the people who are so damaged they'll always be a danger to others and the ones who just need a way to keep a roof over their heads, food on the table and maybe a hope of medical treatment should they get sick.

    And then there's just the purely stupid. Your granddaddy had the sense to wear a hood when he went out night riding!! and you're so dumb you attack the gov't in broad daylight and post pictures while your committing major crimes? Bah. You need to be locked up where you can't destroy the whole damn country...
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    Senior Member KimTisha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisedbywolves View Post
    My argument would be that we keep dangerous wild animals away from society (as best we can), so if teenagers are really this undeveloped and potentially dangerous, should they not be kept away from the rest of society if we weren't going to hold them responsible for their behaviour? IDK, but that's what popped in my head while reading your post KT.
    I don't think they are any more inherently dangerous than your average adult. Most juveniles are capable of making it to adulthood without committing a felony, but those who can't keep it together deserve to have their age and subsequent diminished aptitude taken into consideration i.e., to be tried in the Juvenile Justice System because that's EXACTLY what it's there for.

    I'm a huge proponent of personal accountability and would NEVER suggest we don't hold them responsible for their behavior. Heck yeah, charge 'em, try 'em, and lock 'em up. Some of them should never get out, just like adult offenders.

    What I have a problem with is trying them as adults, with adult consequences. The adult and juvenile systems are separate for a very good reason. The primary focus of the two institutions is even different - rehabilitation vs punishment. The differences in pre-trial interventions, sentencing, probation, and education and rehabilitation programs can make a huge difference in the lives of young offenders who aren't demon seeds but kids who have had to overcome a lot w/little guidance. Some of them have made catastrophically poor decisions and yes, they must pay for it. But it feels counterintuitive to suddenly impose all of this responsibility and rationality on two kids we wouldn't trust to watch our pets, house, and Porsche for a weekend.

    Quote Originally Posted by raisedbywolves View Post
    Maybe I'm cynical, but I think people don't change much, even after they get older. Your basic value system and blueprint has already been set by that point IMO. There might be one in 1000 that actually rehabilitates and leads a good life, but I think most of these kids are just hopeless if they commit a crime like this as a teenager.
    You are, but I still love you.

    I think our tendency to want juveniles tried as adults is because we don't want 16yo Elizar with the pentagram face tattoo and multiple piercings to max out at 21yo and end up only serving 5 years for murdering a family of six and running off with their 13yo daughter. It's a legitimate concern, but I propose it would be more useful in the long run to fix those issues within the JJS instead of throwing kids to the wolves. Surely you wouldn't want that to happen would you Raisedby....?

    Quote Originally Posted by raisedbywolves View Post
    I realize that their brain may not be developed, and they are impulsive, but it takes something horrible in their brain to kill someone, and that doesn't go away when they get older.
    This is hard to argue with, but have you seen the documentary "Meeting With a Killer?" I'll see if I can link it. It's an old documentary about restorative justice and the offender they feature (Gary Brown, I think?) is a classic example of what I'm talking about.

    Warning: Some parts are graphic and difficult to listen to.

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    I'll be honest, I really have no sympathy for kids doing this kind of stuff. Maybe it's my years in LE, but too many kids don't do this stuff while being the same 'impulsive' age, and I have no problem locking away the ones that do and protecting society from them. I don't really believe that the penal system rehabilitates young or old. This is when I am not liberal minded at all, I've seen these little fuckers ruin too many people's lives and it's hard for me to look at them any differently than I would an adult offender.

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    Cousin Greg Angiebla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisedbywolves View Post
    I'll be honest, I really have no sympathy for kids doing this kind of stuff. Maybe it's my years in LE, but too many kids don't do this stuff while being the same 'impulsive' age, and I have no problem locking away the ones that do and protecting society from them. I don't really believe that the penal system rehabilitates young or old. This is when I am not liberal minded at all, I've seen these little fuckers ruin too many people's lives and it's hard for me to look at them any differently than I would an adult offender.
    I have to agree with you, though my mind maybe changed in certain cases.

    I don't believe kids should spend the rest of their lives in jail if they were simply "there" when a crime/murder was committed, but they had no part in it.

    If a kid kills someone, it's a whole different story. I guess I would have to decide on a case by case basis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angiebla View Post
    I have to agree with you, though my mind maybe changed in certain cases.

    I don't believe kids should spend the rest of their lives in jail if they were simply "there" when a crime/murder was committed, but they had no part in it.

    If a kid kills someone, it's a whole different story. I guess I would have to decide on a case by case basis.
    I would agree with all of this. If they actually do the killing though, I doubt my mind could be changed unless there were some EXTREME extenuating circumstances.

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