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Thread: Australia to ban alcohol for Aborigines

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    Senior Member red01angel's Avatar
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    Australia to ban alcohol for Aborigines

    Talk about discrimination and infringing upon civil rights!! 


    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070621/ap_on_re_au_an/australia_aborigines


    CANBERRA, Australia - Australia's prime minister announced plans Thursday to ban pornography and alcohol for Aborigines in northern areas and tighten control over their welfare benefits to fight child sex abuse among them.


    Some Aboriginal leaders rejected the plan as paternalistic and said the measures were discriminatory and would violate the civil rights of the country's original inhabitants. But others applauded the initiative and recommended extending the welfare restrictions to Aborigines in other parts of the country.

    Prime Minister John Howard was responding to a report last week that found sexual abuse of children to be rampant in indigenous communities in the Northern Territory. The report said the abuse was fueled by endemic alcohol abuse, unemployment, poverty and other factors causing a breakdown in traditional society.

    "This is a national emergency," Howard told Parliament. "We're dealing with a group of young Australians for whom the concept of childhood innocence has never been present."

    Howard announced the measures for the Northern Territory, an Outback region where the federal government retains powers it doesn't have over Australia's six states. He urged state leaders to apply similar tough rules in their jurisdictions.

    The federal government can change laws in the territory with an act of Parliament, where Howard has a majority that ensures he can implement his policy.

    Australia is home to about 400,000 Aborigines. About 60,000 live in the Northern Territory, often in isolated, impoverished communities where jobs are scarce and substance abuse is widespread. The land was returned to them over the past 30 years and accounts for about half the Northern Territory, which is about twice the size of Texas.

    The plan angered some Aboriginal leaders, who said it was the kind of government behavior that has disenfranchised Aborigines and created the problems in the first place. They also complained they had not been consulted; the government had not previously indicated it was considering such action.

    "I'm absolutely disgusted by this patronizing government control," said Mitch, a member of a government board helping Aborigines who were taken from their parents under past assimilation laws who uses one name. "And tying drinking with welfare payments is just disgusting."

    "If they're going to do that, they're going to have to do that with every single person in Australia, not just black people," she said.

    Howard said the sale, possession and transportation of alcohol would be banned for six months on the Aboriginal-owned land, after which the policy would be reviewed. The child abuse report found drinking was a key factor in the collapse of Aboriginal culture, contributing to neglect of children and creating opportunities for pedophiles.

    Hardcore pornography also would be banned, and publicly funded computers would be audited to ensure that they had not downloaded such images. The report said pornography was rife in Aboriginal communities and that children often were exposed to it.

    Under Howard's plan, new restrictions would be placed on welfare payments for Aborigines living on the land to prevent the money from being spent on alcohol and gambling. Parents would be required to spend at least half their welfare on essentials such as food, and payments also would be linked to a child's school attendance.

    Howard also called on state governments to send police to the Northern Territory to address a shortage on Aboriginal land there and offered to pay their expenses.

    The child abuse report was commissioned by the Northern Territory government and is widely regarded as credible although it attracted some critics. It was unable to quantify the extent of the sexual abuse problem, since anecdotal evidence suggested much of it went unreported.

    Conducted by an indigenous health worker and a government lawyer, it found children had been sexually abused in all 45 remote communities visited. The abusers were both Aborigines and non-Aborigines operating in or near their communities.

    The report made 97 recommendations, including boosting procedures for reporting and monitoring offenders, and addressing widespread poverty and alcoholism.

    Australia's original inhabitants suffer far higher rates of poverty and substance abuse than the rest of the country's 21 million people, and their life expectancy is 17 years shorter.

    For years, white men were banned from marrying Aboriginal woman, and mixed-race children were taken from their Aboriginal mothers to be assimilated into mainstream society.

    Though many found employment in the cattle and sheep industries, they were paid less than whites, sometimes working just for rations. Unable to achieve economic independence, many have become welfare dependent.

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    Re: Australia to ban alcohol for Aborigines

    I would recommend the movie "Rabbit Proof Fence." It's somewhat controversial, but it's about how the Australian government took away mixed-race children from the Aborigines in the 1930s with the hope of doing away with the race. I had absolutely no idea that this went on in Australia so recently. And the discrimination seems to be continuing. I can see wanting to do away with the sexual abuse, but how is this going to accomplish that?

  3. #3
    Olivia
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    Re: Australia to ban alcohol for Aborigines

    Alright I live in Australia and this is probably going to be a bit controversial but oh well.

    I believe that everyone should have the right to drink whatever they want including the Aboriginal people but the sad fact is that the indigenous race of Australia are pre-disposed to alcoholism. When the white people came and took over (bad I know but a sad fact of life), aboriginals had no immunity to diseases including alcoholism. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_Australians - if you want to read about it.

    So basically our ancestors caused the problems that exist today and something has to be done to fix it.  I have been to the Northern Territory and other desert areas of Australia and seen the poverty that exists. The pubs don't open til say 9am, and there is a line of Aboriginal people about 1 kilometre long - probably 1/2 mile or whatever - waiting to get in from dawn.  They leave their kids/babies alone on their properties while they drink.  This is in one of the harshest climates in the world, freezing cold at night and stiffling hot during the day.

    Aboriginals do it tough, no question about that, but they are given alot.  They are given government houses of which they rip up the floors to use for fire wood, make holes in the plaster and burn it.  They are given government pensions of which would be enough for them to buy food and support their families on.  Unfortunately it is not enough to support their alcohol/drug habits.  If they cannot get booze, they often sniff petrol and whatever else they can find.

    There is lots of reading about this online - with some supporting the alcohol ban, others screaming about human rights infriingments but basically something needs to be done.

    Alcohol is the cause of so many problems for the Aboriginal people and I think that it is probably the place to start in trying to clean things up.  I am pretty sure it's a known fact - not sure of figures though - that someone who is drunk is more likely to abuse other people including children.  Surely getting rid of alcoholism cannot be a bad thing?


  4. #4
    Olivia
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    Re: Australia to ban alcohol for Aborigines

    [quote author=ScrantonBranch link=topic=8263.msg425253#msg425253 date=1182447169]
    I would recommend the movie "Rabbit Proof Fence." It's somewhat controversial, but it's about how the Australian government took away mixed-race children from the Aborigines in the 1930s with the hope of doing away with the race. I had absolutely no idea that this went on in Australia so recently. And the discrimination seems to be continuing. I can see wanting to do away with the sexual abuse, but how is this going to accomplish that?
    [/quote]

    That era in Australian history was revolting no doubt about that. 

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    Re: Australia to ban alcohol for Aborigines

    [quote author=Olivia link=topic=8263.msg425895#msg425895 date=1182467291]
    That era in Australian history was revolting no doubt about that. 
    [/quote]We have periods in America like that to. Lucky coincidence, eh?
    I guess those pages are stuck together in your history books too, eh?
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    Ron was the best part, hands down.

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    Re: Australia to ban alcohol for Aborigines

    Well said, Death Hag.  I agree completely

    I just wrote some random bits and pieces because i just couldn't put it all together.  I guess we'll see if this divides the nation yet again.

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    Re: Australia to ban alcohol for Aborigines

    [quote author=Ron_NYC link=topic=8263.msg425906#msg425906 date=1182467566]
    We have periods in America like that to. Lucky coincidence, eh?
    I guess those pages are stuck together in your history books too, eh?
    [/quote]

    In twenty years, 2000-2008 will be missing completely.

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    Re: Australia to ban alcohol for Aborigines

    [quote author=jesserz44 link=topic=8263.msg425917#msg425917 date=1182467904]
    In twenty years, 2000-2008 will be missing completely.
    [/quote]Oh yea. I could see that. :lol:

    And to think...he got voted in once!
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    Ron was the best part, hands down.

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    Re: Australia to ban alcohol for Aborigines

    [quote author=Olivia link=topic=8263.msg425895#msg425895 date=1182467291]
    That era in Australian history was revolting no doubt about that. 
    [/quote]

    Unfortunately alot of the same circumstances plague the native americans here in the U.S.

    My great-grandfather was born on a reservation and died of alcoholism, just like my grandfather and my father. My uncle is also a heroin addict. Not sure if it is an addiction gene or just the way they were raised. The whole nature vs. nurture thing.

    I don't know if banning alcohol or pornography is the key to stopping it though. If someone is addicted they will do anything they can to get what they want. There are always ways around the system.
    [quote author=Cap-n Meow link=topic=11868.msg845550#msg845550 date=1210298679]<br />Only difference is bbc is awesome.<br />[/quote]<br />

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    Re: Australia to ban alcohol for Aborigines

    [quote author=Olivia link=topic=8263.msg425893#msg425893 date=1182467199]
    Alcohol is the cause of so many problems for the Aboriginal people and I think that it is probably the place to start in trying to clean things up.&nbsp; I am pretty sure it's a known fact - not sure of figures though - that someone who is drunk is more likely to abuse other people including children.&nbsp; Surely getting rid of alcoholism cannot be a bad thing?


    [/quote]

    Agreed. Thanks for providing some more background on the situation. It does seem very much like what has been happening on Native American reservations here for many years.

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    Re: Australia to ban alcohol for Aborigines

    [quote author=bbc link=topic=8263.msg425936#msg425936 date=1182468429]
    Unfortunately alot of the same circumstances plague the native americans here in the U.S.

    My great-grandfather was born on a reservation and died of alcoholism, just like my grandfather and my father. My uncle is also a heroin addict. Not sure if it is an addiction gene or just the way they were raised. The whole nature vs. nurture thing.

    I don't know if banning alcohol or pornography is the key to stopping it though. If someone is addicted they will do anything they can to get what they want. There are always ways around the system.
    [/quote]Oh, I have to say that it's nurture. I just don't believe in the whole 'nature' argument.
    The same way I don't believe that people are predisposed to certain behavior.
    If someone is in an abusive household they're prone to be involved in abusive relationships. They learn this behavior.
    If someone grows up in a house chock-full of substance abuse, you can expect the same from the children. Because they learn it!
    It's not in their genes. Not in their blood.

    The Native Americans, and the Aborigines are the step-children of the USA and Australia, respectively.
    They were treated like shit,
    and then expected to be like their little brother 'that's going to college and doing something with themselves' but they just couldn't.
    Not after all the abuse they faced, they just can't produce the same results.
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    Ron was the best part, hands down.

  12. #12
    Olivia
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    Re: Australia to ban alcohol for Aborigines

    [quote author=Ron_NYC link=topic=8263.msg425906#msg425906 date=1182467566]
    We have periods in America like that to. Lucky coincidence, eh?
    I guess those pages are stuck together in your history books too, eh?
    [/quote]

    It's pretty sad but I guess that it has made the nation what it is today.

    I'm trying to find some numbers of what has happened to the Aboriginal population so bear with me.

    I think our Prime Minister has done alot of good for the country but his refusal to say sorry to the Aboriginal people is infuriating. &nbsp;Every year we have a 'National Sorry Day' which is where most of the people recognise the awful things that were done to the Aboriginals in the past. &nbsp;But the PM refuses to apologise for the wrongs, using the excuse that it wasn't us who did it. &nbsp;It would still be a nice act of solidarity though.

    &quot;On Sunday 28th May 2000 more than 250,000 people participated in the Corroboree 2000 Bridge Walk across Sydney Harbour Bridge. This walk was in support of Indigenous Australians and was organised by the Council for Aboriginal Reconciliation (now known as Reconciliation Australia), a Federal Government initiative to promote greater understanding between Indigenous and non-Indigenous Australians. The event highlighted the issue of a lack of an apology by the Commonwealth Government to the Stolen Generations.&quot;

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    Re: Australia to ban alcohol for Aborigines

    When I was 'down under' I asked someone where the Aboriginals were! The response I got was &quot;Oh, we killed them all.&quot;
    Lovely girl, but that answer was a shock. A shock because she was only kinda kidding. :-P

    And pepole were bitching about John Howard like people bitch about Bush over here.
    I was there in 2004, right around the time when Regan died, and when Schwarzenegger went to AU to meet with Howard.
    Man what a jerk-off fest.
    I learned a bit about the Labor and Liberal parties. Interesting stuff.
    Nice to see you guys can't get it together either. :lol:



    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    Ron was the best part, hands down.

  14. #14
    Olivia
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    Re: Australia to ban alcohol for Aborigines

    [quote author=Ron_NYC link=topic=8263.msg425978#msg425978 date=1182469539]
    When I was 'down under' I asked someone where the Aboriginals were! The response I got was &quot;Oh, we killed them all.&quot;
    Lovely girl, but that answer was a shock. A shock because she was only kinda kidding. :-P

    And pepole were bitching about John Howard like people bitch about Bush over here.
    I was there in 2004, right around the time when Regan died, and when Schwarzenegger went to AU to meet with Howard.
    Man what a jerk-off fest.
    I learned a bit about the Labor and Liberal parties. Interesting stuff.
    Nice to see you guys can't get it together either. :lol:


    [/quote]

    That's the figure I was trying to find but I can't. Wiki says there was over a million when the settlers first arrived and it is estimated that there is about 500,000 left but I didn't think there were that many.

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    Re: Australia to ban alcohol for Aborigines

    [quote author=Olivia link=topic=8263.msg425985#msg425985 date=1182469839]
    That's the figure I was trying to find but I can't. Wiki says there was over a million when the settlers first arrived and it is estimated that there is about 500,000 left but I didn't think there were that many.
    [/quote]Yea, I was out looking for them.
    There was a shop with original Aboriginal fashions or rugs or something, and I went inside to find nothing but white people. :lol: :-P

    There are supposed to be a ton of [s]Indians[/s] Tribal Americans still here, but I have never seen any.
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    Ron was the best part, hands down.

  16. #16
    Olivia
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    Re: Australia to ban alcohol for Aborigines

    [quote author=Ron_NYC link=topic=8263.msg425991#msg425991 date=1182470055]
    Yea, I was out looking for them.
    There was a shop with original Aboriginal fashions or rugs or something, and I went inside to find nothing but white people. :lol: :-P

    There are supposed to be a ton of [s]Indians[/s] Tribal Americans still here, but I have never seen any.
    [/quote]

    I know and you always get the token white person playing the didgeridoo and running around almost naked with aboriginal artwork painted all over them

  17. #17
    Olivia
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    Re: Australia to ban alcohol for Aborigines

    A few good points here -

    'Get the police in, and the booze out'



    Child abuse and violence would not be stamped out in indigenous communities without a strong police presence, says Federal Health Minister Tony Abbott.

    Prime Minister John Howard moved yesterday to take unprecedented action to stamp out child abuse in indigenous communities, announcing that alcohol and pornography would be banned in those communities in the Northern Territory.

    Mr Howard's plan to override territory laws to deal with the crisis came in the wake of a damning report on abuse of indigenous youngsters.

    Mr Abbott said today he welcomed the plan and that it was time the issue of law and order in indigenous communities was addressed.

    &quot;The health services certainly have been improved, but what we need is not just better health services, what we need is law and order in these communities,&quot; Mr Abbott told the Nine Network.

    &quot;We need to get the police in and the booze out.

    &quot;You aren't going to stamp out the child abuse and violence without a strong police presence in these communities.

    &quot;That's how it starts, and that's why the most significant aspect of the prime minister's announcement is getting the police into these communities on the ground as soon as possible.&quot;

    Labor's Julia Gillard said the Federal Opposition was prepared to work with the government to address the problem.

    Ms Gillard said everything must be done to protect children in indigenous communities from abuse.

    &quot;We absolutely acknowledge that this has been a shocking tragedy,&quot; Ms Gillard said.

    &quot;There have been failures at all levels of government.


    &quot;This is beyond politics and we should be working together on it.&quot;


    Ms Gillard said it was a national issue that each state and territory should be addressing.

    &quot;I think we should be doing everything at every level of government. Obviously there are constitutional limitations on what the commonwealth can do and the prime minister made that point yesterday,&quot; Ms Gillard said.

    &quot;The commonwealth has special powers in relation to the Northern Territory which it doesn't have in relation to the states, but we would be saying everybody at all levels of government needs to be cooperating to address this national problem.&quot;

    If necessary, Mr Howard would recall parliament - which last night retired for a six-week winter break - to push through laws, including reforms to ensure welfare money was spent on essentials like food, instead of drugs and alcohol.

    Mr Abbott said it would take a few weeks to draft the legislation, but he was confident that it would be ready before the end of July.

    &quot;That's certainly our hope,&quot; he said.

    &quot;We have to get the legislation drafted. That's in the hands of the drafting authorities, but once the legislation is there parliament will come back to deal with it.&quot;

    http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/get-the-police-in-and-the-booze-out/2007/06/22/1182019318609.html

    How gorgeous are these kids?



  18. #18
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    Re: Australia to ban alcohol for Aborigines

    The U.S. proved that prohibition doesn't work.&nbsp;

  19. #19
    Olivia
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    Re: Australia to ban alcohol for Aborigines

    [quote author=FemmeFatality link=topic=8263.msg426054#msg426054 date=1182472633]
    The U.S. proved that prohibition doesn't work.&nbsp;
    [/quote]

    What works for some, doesn't work for all and vice versa.

    Compulsory voting works for us, as does strict gun control.

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    Re: Australia to ban alcohol for Aborigines

    [quote author=Olivia link=topic=8263.msg426060#msg426060 date=1182472988]
    What works for some, doesn't work for all and vice versa.

    Compulsory voting works for us, as does strict gun control.
    [/quote]

    alcohol is too easy to make to enforce a ban on it.

  21. #21
    Olivia
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    Re: Australia to ban alcohol for Aborigines

    [quote author=FemmeFatality link=topic=8263.msg426066#msg426066 date=1182473183]
    alcohol is too easy to make to enforce a ban on it.
    [/quote]

    Even in the middle of the desert, for people with no books, internet access, or transport?

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    Re: Australia to ban alcohol for Aborigines

    [quote author=Olivia link=topic=8263.msg426079#msg426079 date=1182473808]
    Even in the middle of the desert, for people with no books, internet access, or transport?
    [/quote]they've been making it on top of mountains with no books, internet access, or transportation for hundreds of years, but I guess if the Aborigines live in reservation type government housing, it may be easier to enforce a ban.

  23. #23
    Olivia
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    Re: Australia to ban alcohol for Aborigines

    [quote author=FemmeFatality link=topic=8263.msg426086#msg426086 date=1182474200]
    they've been making it on top of mountains with no books, internet access, or transportation for hundreds of years, but I guess if the Aborigines live in reservation type government housing, it may be easier to enforce a ban.
    [/quote]

    Fair point but the aboriginals have lived here for thousands of years and there was no problem with alcoholism until recently - why didn't they make it before?

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    Re: Australia to ban alcohol for Aborigines

    [quote author=Olivia link=topic=8263.msg426091#msg426091 date=1182474330]
    Fair point but the aboriginals have lived here for thousands of years and there was no problem with alcoholism until recently - why didn't they make it before?
    [/quote]I don't know but all I am saying is that they can make it now if they really want to.

  25. #25
    Olivia
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    Re: Australia to ban alcohol for Aborigines

    [quote author=FemmeFatality link=topic=8263.msg426093#msg426093 date=1182474395]
    I don't know but all I am saying is that they can make it now if they really want to.
    [/quote]

    Probably true but like you said, they all rely on government handouts and this will make it easier to police.

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