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Thread: Holly Suzanne Courtier (38) missing from Zion National Park, UT since 10/6/2020

  1. #26
    Don't drink sanitizer! raisedbywolves's Avatar
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    https://www.today.com/news/sister-mi...mental-t195709

    The sister of the missing hiker who survived 12 days in Utah's Zion National Park without any food or water said her survival is nothing short of "a miracle."

    Holly Suzanne Courtier, 38, was found by a visitor who alerted park officials on Sunday after the Los Angeles woman had been reported missing since Oct. 8 inside the 229-square-mile park.

    Jaime Strong, 41, spoke to TODAY about what Courtier endured, her current physical and mental state, and the joy and concern she felt when she first saw her sister.

    "I think God got her through this," Strong said. "I think it's a miracle. I truly believe there is no reason she should be alive. It doesn't make sense. She didn't have the proper gear, and she didn't have food or water."

    Strong said her sister lost between 15 and 18 pounds after not eating or drinking for at least 12 days. In addition, Courtier had not eaten for a few days prior to going to Zion National Park on Oct. 6 because she had gone on a planned fast.

    "When I walked in the room and saw how emaciated she was, I lost it," Strong said. "It was like seeing someone who had aged 30 years in 12 days. It was horrific, but at that point I was so happy to see her it didn't matter."

    Courtier's daughter, Kailey Chambers, said in a statement to NBC News on Tuesday that her mother stayed near a river bed, but Strong clarified that Courtier didn't actually drink any water from the river other than wetting her lips and spitting it back out.

    "She said she didn't have anything to drink at all," Strong said. "She was very well aware of the toxins in the river. There was a statement made that she said she set up camp because she wanted to stay close to the river, but we were never implying that she drank the water."

    Courtier has checked herself into a mental wellness center since being rescued, according to her sister. She had planned to be in the park for only a day or two for "a journey of fasting" and to disconnect from technology without a cell phone while reading her Bible.

    "I don't think that her mental state was good when she went into the park," Strong said. "I really think she had a mental breakdown and was not in the right state of mind when she decided to take this journey and not tell people where she was going."

    Courtier kept track of the days by marking them with a Sharpie on a tree branch.

    Courtier had lost her job as a nanny before the pandemic in addition to other factors that may have contributed to her mental health issues, Strong said.

    "She has definitely been through some trauma over the past several years," Strong said. "I don't think she's properly dealt with it and gotten the proper help for it, and now is the time."

    Courtier, who is a seasoned hiker, experienced severe dehydration and suffered a concussion that caused her to be disoriented, Strong said.

    She was only wearing leggings and a T-shirt and had a thin blanket and sweater with her as she endured nighttime temperatures in the 40s.

    At one point, Courtier saw another person but was so dehydrated that she couldn't open her mouth to yell for help, her sister said.

    She was found on the day park rangers told her family they were winding down the active search and the chances of finding her alive were slim. Strong's husband saw rangers taking down missing signs for Courtier and angrily asked them why, only to find out it was because she had been rescued.

    Strong also addressed a statement by the National Park Service saying Courtier was able to "leave of her own capability with minimal assistance" after being found.

    "It's just so blown blown out of proportion," Strong said. "When you think you're going to die and you see a ranger, she said she literally got like giddy inside because she knew she was going to see her daughter and her family, so you definitely have some adrenaline working for you at that point."

    She said Courtier had a ranger standing behind her in case she fell from weakness and had to stop every 5 feet to sit down and rest. Courtier was taken to the hospital by her family, not an ambulance.

    "She was very scared and traumatized, and she wanted to leave the park in my car with me and my husband and her daughter, and we drove her straight to the emergency room, so things have just been twisted," Strong said.

    Strong and her family are just grateful to the park rangers, authorities and volunteers from the community of Springdale for helping Courtier return to them.

    "I think that's what carried her through was people praying for her," Strong said. "I've never seen so many kind people."

  2. #27
    What do you care? Boston Babe 73's Avatar
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    Okay, for one I find it highly unlikely that she would survive that long without water. People will experience organ failure within three days without it and we're supposed to believe she went almost two weeks? For two, it still doesn't explain people spotting her and not helping. Especially with the state she would have obviously been in after that long without food and water.

    Not buying it. They're making excuses for her because people are upset that resources were wasted on her. She was in areas where people normally venture and the search crews couldn't find her? I'd be willing to accept that she had mental issues going on and hid on purpose with supplies, but lying just makes this look intentional for other reasons.
    Last edited by Boston Babe 73; 10-23-2020 at 11:49 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Miller22 View Post
    I thought the exact same thing. Poor Brennen Tammons.
    Oh well, back to gum.
    ....or exchanging Puke's wang for spicy nuts.
    Quote Originally Posted by animosity View Post
    I know, right? What the fuck, puke? Willing to take in Boston, an Irish dude and like, 17 dogs but not Ron? poor Ron.

  3. #28
    Cranjis McBasketball Nic B's Avatar
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    Yeah. at first she claimed she drank the water. Once investigators said that wasn't possible, she changed it to now she didn't. Um, suuuuuure.


    Quote Originally Posted by marakisses View Post
    yes i said i will leave it under you storage he said cuddle with me i said shut up it over??? what am i doing wrong??

  4. #29
    Don't drink sanitizer! raisedbywolves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nic B View Post
    Yeah. at first she claimed she drank the water. Once investigators said that wasn't possible, she changed it to now she didn't. Um, suuuuuure.
    I was wondering if anyone else caught that. Plus, I don't think she would have lived if she just wet her mouth.

  5. #30
    What do you care? Boston Babe 73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisedbywolves View Post
    I was wondering if anyone else caught that. Plus, I don't think she would have lived if she just wet her mouth.
    Definitely not and she would have still gotten sick. TWELVE days without water. We'll say even 8 days assuming she rationed out what she had. 3 to 4 days TOPS before complete organ shutdown and death. We're supposed to believe she went twice that time and was still able to not only walk out, but have authorities let her family take her.

    NOPE
    Quote Originally Posted by Miller22 View Post
    I thought the exact same thing. Poor Brennen Tammons.
    Oh well, back to gum.
    ....or exchanging Puke's wang for spicy nuts.
    Quote Originally Posted by animosity View Post
    I know, right? What the fuck, puke? Willing to take in Boston, an Irish dude and like, 17 dogs but not Ron? poor Ron.

  6. #31
    Senior Member puzzld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Babe 73 View Post
    Definitely not and she would have still gotten sick. TWELVE days without water. We'll say even 8 days assuming she rationed out what she had. 3 to 4 days TOPS before complete organ shutdown and death. We're supposed to believe she went twice that time and was still able to not only walk out, but have authorities let her family take her.

    NOPE
    Yeah. If she had a supply of water she could survive this OK. Without water, even saying she caught some rain water or had snow to melt? She'd be in bad shape. Absent rain or snow? She's not telling the truth.
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    lol at Nestle being some vicious smiter, she's the nicest person on this site besides probably puzzld. Or at least the last person to resort to smiting.
    Quote Originally Posted by nestlequikie View Post
    Why on earth would I smite you when I can ban you?

  7. #32
    Senior Member Angiebla's Avatar
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    This story reminds me of that Sherri Papini case. Except this chick didn't say she was kidnapped.

    I google the Papini case and apparently the case is still "open". What a joke.


    Now they are saying she didn't eat for a couple of days before she went missing for religious reasons? She would be dead.

    I wonder where she really was this whole time and why she went back to the park?

    "The love for all living creatures is the most noble attribute of man" -Charles Darwin

    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    Chelsea, if you are a ghost and reading mds, I command you to walk into the light.

  8. #33
    Don't drink sanitizer! raisedbywolves's Avatar
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    https://abc7.com/holly-courtier-zion...zanne/7262577/

    The sister of a Woodland Hills woman who was rescued after a 12-day search in Utah's Zion National Park is speaking out and sharing details of how her sister survived as some authorities have come out to question the story.

    Holly Courtier, 38, was found safe last Sunday. Family members say Courtier had a mental breakdown and went to Zion in the middle of the night on a spiritual journey without telling anyone, and without food or water.

    "I think she was seeking solitude. And then a number of choices just went horribly wrong," Courtier's sister Jaime Strong said. "I think she thought she could go in there, spend a couple days alone, fast and pray, and then come out of the park."
    Some rescuers are questioning her story and her choices, especially since the water in Zion's Virgin River is toxic due to an algae bloom.

    "If she had been drinking that water, unless she had some really high immune system, she would've been very, very ill and probably unable to come out on her own," said Sgt. Darrell Cashin from the Washington County Sheriff's Search and Rescue.

    "She was very well aware of the toxins in the river. She said she was very tempted to drink it sometimes because she was so thirsty," Strong said. "She said she would scoop it up and swish it out in her mouth to kind of wet her mouth because her mouth was so dry."

    Rescuers say Courtier was able to walk out of the park on her own. Her family said she was extremely weak and dehydrated and had to be treated at the hospital.

    Family says the focus now is getting her the help she needs.

    "We'll be the first to tell you it's not normal to walk into a park without a cellphone, and maybe with no food or water," Strong said. "That's not a normal thing to do. I don't think her head was in the right place when she did that."

    The sheriff's department in Zion says the case is still under investigation.
    Still thinking it was a stunt to raise money, because unless she had adequate water she isn't going to survive that long.

  9. #34
    Senior Member Angiebla's Avatar
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    She apparently brought a hammock but no food or water

    "The love for all living creatures is the most noble attribute of man" -Charles Darwin

    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    Chelsea, if you are a ghost and reading mds, I command you to walk into the light.

  10. #35
    What do you care? Boston Babe 73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisedbywolves View Post
    https://abc7.com/holly-courtier-zion...zanne/7262577/





    Still thinking it was a stunt to raise money, because unless she had adequate water she isn't going to survive that long.
    It absolutely was a stunt to raise money. I'm convinced that the whole family are scammers and judging by the response from the authorities, we aren't the only ones thinking this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Miller22 View Post
    I thought the exact same thing. Poor Brennen Tammons.
    Oh well, back to gum.
    ....or exchanging Puke's wang for spicy nuts.
    Quote Originally Posted by animosity View Post
    I know, right? What the fuck, puke? Willing to take in Boston, an Irish dude and like, 17 dogs but not Ron? poor Ron.

  11. #36
    Don't drink sanitizer! raisedbywolves's Avatar
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    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...es/6055999002/

    What was supposed to be a brief spiritual pilgrimage turned instead into a fight for her life.

    Upon her discovery, she left the park with her family and sought medical care.

    And then the online frenzy began.

    What started as a widespread plea for tips and support to find Courtier became an international sensation filled with vitriol and conspiracy theories about her disappearance.

    Family members say they have since received exponential amounts of hate mail and comments, forcing them to shut down their social media and get new phone numbers.

    Hundreds of comments on Facebook posts by the family say things like "hoax," "scammer," or "crazy". Online observers created private groups to hypothesize about the case. Some postulated that an online fundraiser was actually a fraud.

    A Sheriff's sergeant was quoted in a television interview suggesting that Courtier's story didn't add up. His comments spread all over the country, stirring the controversy further, creating more hate toward the family, they say.

    Jaime Courtier Strong, Holly's sister, spoke with The Spectrum, part of the USA TODAY network, about what happened and how the online frenzy has affected them.

    “There are not holes in the story, there are no discrepancies. It just got blown very out of proportion," she said.

    Let's start at the beginning.
    'She was seeking a total disconnect from everything'

    In September, Holly Courtier and her daughter Kailey Chambers visited Zion together to hike.

    Courtier had lost her nannying job due to the pandemic earlier this year, and was traveling the country in a converted van.

    Jillian Oliver, Courtier's younger sister, told the Los Angeles Times that Courtier is a "free spirit" who was prone to spontaneity and regularly fasted.

    After having dinner together a few days before Courtier left for Zion, Oliver told the Times, "She gave me a big hug and said, ‘I love you so much.' She seemed a little choked up. Like she wasn’t going to see us for maybe a few weeks or something.”

    Courtier spent a few weeks at her California home but then departed in the middle of the night in early October, leaving for Utah. She left her phone behind and did not tell anyone where she was going.

    "She definitely was having a mental breakdown," Strong said. "She told us later she was seeking a total disconnect from everything. She really just wanted to be alone. She had no idea it would turn into anything it would turn into or the worry she would cause or what it would become."

    Courtier arrived at Zion National Park on Oct. 6, parked her car in Springdale, and took a private shuttle to the Grotto area at 1:30 p.m.

    That was the last time anyone saw Courtier for nearly two weeks.

    She only had a hat, jacket, tank top, hiking boots, backpack, sweatshirt, blanket and hammock with her.

    Oliver told the Times Courtier's roommate reported her missing and authorities triangulated Courtier was in Zion because she used her credit card to pay the entry fee.

    Strong said Courtier had already begun a food fast to kick off her spiritual journey where she just wanted to "connect with nature and read her Bible."

    Courtier told her sister that she took a big hike that first day, weakening her early in her trip.

    After setting up her hammock in a vegetated area, Courtier went to sit on it and swung back, hitting her head hard on a tree, Strong said.

    Disoriented, Courtier stayed by the Virgin River for days where she would scoop up the water to wet her mouth, swish it around, and spit it out, Strong said.

    Courtier told Strong that she knew about the toxic cyanobacteria in the water from signs in the park and didn't want to drink it, but that she just needed to keep her mouth wet.

    Oliver told the Times she thought maybe because Courtier fasted often, she could survive without food and water for a while.

    Strong had established a GoFundMe fundraiser to "cover the costs of her search and possible aftercare when she is found."

    While Courtier was still missing, the fundraiser garnered $12,010.

    Strong said she established the GoFundMe because friends and family kept asking how they could help and "things were getting expensive."

    "I figured it was the most public way for everyone to see where the money was going. The donations were mostly personal friends and family," Strong said.

    The family organized its own independent search party filled with dozens of local volunteers and made a website.

    Courtier's 19-year-old daughter became the spokesperson for the search efforts, leaving school and home to look for her mother.

    "In simple words, it’s been absolutely surreal. I never in a million years thought I’d have to experience something like this," Chambers said. "It’s been a very emotional experience."
    A press release of Coutier's rescue said she was able to "leave of her own capability with minimal assistance." Strong told NBC's Today Show that Courtier was in bad shape.

    Strong told Today that in reality, Courtier had to stop every five feet to rest as she came out of where she had been staying and had a ranger standing behind her in case she fell.

    "She was very scared and traumatized... We drove her straight to the emergency room," Strong told Today.

    Courtier was later diagnosed with a concussion and was treated for foot injuries due to the cold, as well as famine and dehydration, Strong said. Courtier then checked herself into a mental wellness center in California.

    "She's getting better every day," Strong said.
    Conspiracy theories about the rescue

    When Washington County Sheriff's Sgt. Darrell Cashin spoke to ABC 4 the day after her rescue, he commented on the case and at one point speculated about whether Courtier drank the toxic water from the Virgin River for 12 days, saying the water would likely have killed her.

    The harmful algae has plagued the Virgin River in Zion since at least July when park officials discovered it after a dog died after playing in the water.

    “If she had been drinking that water, unless she had some really high immune system, she would’ve been very, very ill and probably unable to come out on her own,” Cashin told ABC 4. “She either took a lot of water with her or had another clean water source that was near here, but the Virgin River is not that source.”

    However, a sheriff's office public information officer said on Monday that Cashin’s earlier statements to other media organizations were just as an “expert witness” and not in an official investigating capacity. The official said Cashin was drawing on his years of experience in the area to comment on the case, not to draw definitive conclusions.

    “Cashin spoke to an observation that there are inconsistencies,” they said. “Our job is to be objective. We’re fact-finders.”
    continued

  12. #37
    Don't drink sanitizer! raisedbywolves's Avatar
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    continued from above

    A Sheriff's Office press release sent out on Monday said the Office stands behind the observations and statements made by Cashin.

    The Sheriff’s Office was only involved by Zion National Park to review the case and make sure the park was thorough. They were only consultants, not investigators, according to the release.

    “It was our finding that the investigative methods were consistent with Sheriff’s Office investigative practices and no further action was recommended,” according to the release.

    But Courtier's family members say the comments were damaging.

    They have been forced to deactivate or severely restrict their social media accounts, get new phone numbers and enact other privacy measures.

    A post on Chambers's Facebook page asking for help early in the case had nearly 300 comments as of Monday. While some were supportive, others question Courtier's story. Some say the money raised on GoFundMe should be refunded. Some call Courtier and her family members scammers or lob other insults.

    There was a private Facebook group where people could speculate about what "really" happened.

    "The Sherrif's sergeant has made it 10 times worse for [Kailey]," Strong said. "I've never even seen him or met him. This is someone who looked at some paperwork...He wasn't there. I think it might be easy to look at a few things on paper and make conclusions. He’s taken something and blown it out of proportion.”

    Strong said the family delayed releasing some details purely because they were trying to put their lives back together before they let the public in.

    "I think we just took our time to answer the questions because we were much more focused on getting her better," Strong said. “We never said she drank the water. He made it look like there's a hole in the story and there wasn't.”
    The GoFundMe

    The problem some critics of Courtier's story take with the case is the GoFundMe fundraiser.

    In the few days it was online, it raised $12,010 for Courtier's recovery.

    Strong said she wanted to set up the fundraiser for friends and family to donate. But as Courtier's story started to receive regional and national media attention, the GoFundMe grew.

    "Holly has suffered from mental health issues in the past and went on her hike not in the best frame of mind," Strong said on the GoFundMe page on Friday. "She did not intend to become injured or so weak on her journey. Nor, did she intend for her trip to become a search and rescue effort. If Holly was not found when she was, she would have died."
    The GoFundMe for Holly Courtier as of October 26, 2020.

    Strong said the funds garnered would be used to reimburse the family and friend's costs for the search including hotel rooms, equipment, car rentals and food for the search party. The rest of the money was intended to help with Courtier's medical care.

    But given the mass public backlash after Cashin's comments and other conspiracies, Strong said she wanted to be "honest."

    "We acknowledge and respect people’s concerns over the many inaccuracies portrayed by the press and social media regarding Holly’s ordeal. Whoever has concerns about our use of their donation is welcome to request a refund without any objection from the family," Strong wrote on the GoFundMe on Friday.

    "We are honest people. We're not holding your money hostage," she said to the Spectrum.

    As of Monday, only $50 had been requested to be refunded.

    In Monday's news release, the Sheriff's Office said, "Numerous tips have been received indicating the incident was possibly conceived and carried out as part of a plan to fraudulently generate money to a GoFundMe account for Courtier’s recovery."

    However, the release also said, "At this point in the investigation, there has been no evidence to support the theory that the incident was committed intentionally as an effort to achieve financial gain."

    In the future of this case, the only role the Sheriff’s Office could hold is to conduct a criminal investigation, if there is a need for one. The National Park Service cannot have jurisdiction over a legal case in Utah as they are a federal organization.

    Zion National Park is currently finishing up an investigative report on Courtier's case and officials say they plan to release it to the public as soon as it is complete.

    Details of the case, including how much taxpayer money the search cost, how many staff and volunteers searched for her, her discovery and other conclusions will be included in the report.

    "I'm just glad we found her and reunited with our family," Zion spokesperson Amanda Rolland said.

    The family, Zion National Park and other partners in the search and rescue of Courtier said they are extremely grateful to the rangers and volunteers for finding her.

  13. #38
    Senior Member Angiebla's Avatar
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    Her own family said she "scooped up the water swished it around in her mouth, and spit it out."

    Whatever I dont know if it was a hoax but I dont think people should harrass her family. Thats fucked up.

    "The love for all living creatures is the most noble attribute of man" -Charles Darwin

    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    Chelsea, if you are a ghost and reading mds, I command you to walk into the light.

  14. #39
    What do you care? Boston Babe 73's Avatar
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    Nobody should be getting death threats, but these people are straight up lying. There's no possible way she survived without water that long. You can survive without food, but not without water.

    Liars.
    Quote Originally Posted by Miller22 View Post
    I thought the exact same thing. Poor Brennen Tammons.
    Oh well, back to gum.
    ....or exchanging Puke's wang for spicy nuts.
    Quote Originally Posted by animosity View Post
    I know, right? What the fuck, puke? Willing to take in Boston, an Irish dude and like, 17 dogs but not Ron? poor Ron.

  15. #40
    Don't drink sanitizer! raisedbywolves's Avatar
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    <clearing throat> Ahem.....


    https://www.sltrib.com/news/2020/10/...investigating/


    The Washington County Sheriff’s Office is investigating the California woman who disappeared in Zion National Park for 12 days — and has raised the possibility of fraud.

    Holly Courtier, 38, disappeared Oct. 6 after she was dropped off by a private shuttle bus at the Grotto park area and did not return. She was found by park rangers Oct. 18 after they were alerted by a park visitor. According to family members, Courtier hit her head and was disoriented, surviving on very little food and water as she stayed next to the Virgin River.

    However, she was able to leave the park without the assistance of medical personnel, and her sister told NBC’s “Today Show” that Courtier knew the river was potentially toxic and didn’t drink from it, adding, “She said she didn’t have anything to drink at all.” Her sister also said Courtier had been fasting for two days before she entered the park.

    And that raised red flags with police. Sgt. Darrell Cashin of the Washington County Sheriff’s Office told KTVX-Ch. 4 he had doubts about her story, citing “discrepancies and questions that do not add up.” According to a news release from the sheriff’s office, “These inconsistencies raised some questions as to the authenticity of the events as reported to law enforcement,” adding it “stands behind” Cashin’s “observations and statements.”

    “Numerous tips have been received indicating the incident was possibly conceived and carried out as part of a plan to fraudulently generate money to a GoFundMe account for Courtier’s recovery," according to police, although they have “no evidence to support the theory that the incident was committed intentionally as an effort to achieve financial gain.”

    The sheriff’s office asked for members of the public to share “any credible information … based on tangible leads.” Tips should be submitted to tips@washeriff.net.

    A GoFundMe page for Courtier — whose family said she lost her job as a nanny earlier this year because of the pandemic — raised nearly $12,000 before donations were suspended by Courtier’s sister, the page organizer.

    According to an Oct. 22 update on the GoFundMe page, Courtier “suffered from mental health issues in the past and went on her hike not in the best frame of mind. She did not intend ... for her trip to become a search and rescue effort. If Holly was not found when she was, she would have died.” And any money raised would be used to reimburse “the family and friends' costs” during the search and “to cover the medical care applied to Holly during her hospital stay as well as therapy costs moving forward.”

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