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Thread: Australia to ban alcohol for Aborigines

  1. #26
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    Re: Australia to ban alcohol for Aborigines

    I was able to find this. It's kind of interesting about the situation here. Basically, a graduate student did a study on the effects of an alcohol ban on some reservations and found some surprising results.


    http://www.gannett.com/go/difference/greatfalls/pages/part8/dry.html


    From the article:
    "In his 1976 study of seven reservations in Montana and Wyoming, Philip May found that reservations that legalized alcohol sales had:

    a 28 percent lower mortality rate from cirrhosis of the liver;

    47 percent fewer suicides;

    18 percent fewer homicides;

    and 11 percent fewer motor vehicle accidents." (End of article quote)

    Granted, it's a 1976 study, but interesting nonetheless.

    This topic really intrigues me. I guess I just feel it is wrong for a government to take away rights from one segment of the population that the rest of the general population is free to enjoy. It seems like a band-aid approach to solving the problem.

    But you and the article that you found do make some very good points, Olivia. What works for some does not work for others - For example, it would probably be more difficult for the Aboriginal people to travel to acquire the alcohol.

    Not to make light of the situation, but all of this is also making me want a drink. I am glad that alcohol is not "band" for me.

  2. #27
    Olivia
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    Re: Australia to ban alcohol for Aborigines

    [quote author=ScrantonBranch link=topic=8263.msg426105#msg426105 date=1182475034]
    I was able to find this. It's kind of interesting about the situation here. Basically, a graduate student did a study on the effects of an alcohol ban on some reservations and found some surprising results.


    http://www.gannett.com/go/difference/greatfalls/pages/part8/dry.html


    From the article:
    "In his 1976 study of seven reservations in Montana and Wyoming, Philip May found that reservations that legalized alcohol sales had:

    a 28 percent lower mortality rate from cirrhosis of the liver;

    47 percent fewer suicides;

    18 percent fewer homicides;

    and 11 percent fewer motor vehicle accidents." (End of article quote)

    Granted, it's a 1976 study, but interesting nonetheless.

    This topic really intrigues me. I guess I just feel it is wrong for a government to take away rights from one segment of the population that the rest of the general population is free to enjoy. It seems like a band-aid approach to solving the problem.

    But you and the article that you found do make some very good points, Olivia. What works for some does not work for others - For example, it would probably be more difficult for the Aboriginal people to travel to acquire the alcohol.

    Not to make light of the situation, but all of this is also making me want a drink. I am glad that alcohol is not "band" for me.
    [/quote]

    Are those percentages legalised sales v prohbition and black market booze?

    I think that the problem is so big that the government needs to start somewhere and I guess it's hard to know where to start.

    It's nearly Friday Lunchtime here which means Booze o'clock!

  3. #28
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    Re: Australia to ban alcohol for Aborigines

    [quote author=Olivia link=topic=8263.msg426107#msg426107 date=1182475180]
    Are those percentages legalised sales v prohbition and black market booze?

    I think that the problem is so big that the government needs to start somewhere and I guess it's hard to know where to start.

    It's nearly Friday Lunchtime here which means Booze o'clock!
    [/quote]

    Yes - I believe he did a comparison of reservations with legalized alcohol sales and those who had prohibition - the ones with legalized sales produced better statistics.

    Booze o'clock! +1 for that!
    You are about 15 hours ahead of me!!!

  4. #29
    deliberate_misuse
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    Re: Australia to ban alcohol for Aborigines

    I can just imagine the hue and cry if our government proposed banning alcohol and pornography on our reservations.  Blah, blah, blah, trampling on one's civil liberties, blah, blah, blah.

  5. #30
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    Re: Australia to ban alcohol for Aborigines


    While I disagree on the approach, I agree on the spirit of the legislation.

    If I'm a tax-paying citizen of Australia, and my taxes are going to much need welfare programs for the Aboriginal people, they had better be going to food, education and housing. Not drugs, booze, and other possibly destructive habits.

    If Aboriginal people are taking my money and wasting it, then I wouldn't want to pay taxes for it.

    So instead of enforcing Prohibitionist agendas, the government should spend money on awareness and substance abuse treatment assistance instead of on trying to enforce a law that's impossible to enforce.

    If someone is intent on getting drunk or high, they'll find a way. Legal or otherwise.

    Lol...and I couldn't just let this go.

    [quote author=jesserz44 link=topic=8263.msg425917#msg425917 date=1182467904]
    In twenty years, 2000-2008 will be missing completely.
    [/quote]

    [quote author=Ron_NYC link=topic=8263.msg425931#msg425931 date=1182468286]
    Oh yea. I could see that. :lol:

    And to think...he got voted in once!
    [/quote]

    Read Weapons of Mass Distortion by Brent Bozell. It turns out the fine folks in the media decided to call Florida for Gore before the votes in the panhandle (which is on CST) were counted. It turns out of all the people who hadn't voted yet and were disuaded by the media's call of the state for Gore, 3 of every 4 were gonna vote for Bush, which would have given him a slim, but clear, margin of victory. Bet you won't find that in the history books, either.

    [quote author=Olivia link=topic=8263.msg425964#msg425964 date=1182469141]
    It's pretty sad but I guess that it has made the nation what it is today.

    I'm trying to find some numbers of what has happened to the Aboriginal population so bear with me.

    I think our Prime Minister has done alot of good for the country but his refusal to say sorry to the Aboriginal people is infuriating.  Every year we have a 'National Sorry Day' which is where most of the people recognise the awful things that were done to the Aboriginals in the past.  But the PM refuses to apologise for the wrongs, using the excuse that it wasn't us who did it.  It would still be a nice act of solidarity though.

    "On Sunday 28th May 2000 more than 250,000 people participated in the Corroboree 2000 Bridge Walk across Sydney Harbour Bridge. This walk was in support of Indigenous Australians and was organised by the Council for Aboriginal Reconciliation (now known as Reconciliation Australia), a Federal Government initiative to promote greater understanding between Indigenous and non-Indigenous Australians. The event highlighted the issue of a lack of an apology by the Commonwealth Government to the Stolen Generations."
    [/quote]

    I'm not sure if we've ever really made any formal apologies to our Native Americans, and in all honesty, I'm not sure if we should, or if the Australian government should do so themselves.

    If I'm an Aboriginie or a Native American, I know what my history is and how it relates to where I am now.

    If I'm a non-indigenous person in either country, I'm well aware of the government's history and how egregiously they treated them.

    An apology, heart felt or not, won't solve a damn thing. And while solidairty is a nice thing for the city dwellers that makes everyone feel warm and fuzzy (and erases some form of collective guilt that shouldnt really be there anyway, IMO ), you still have a minority in dire need of REAL SOLUTIONS and REAL HELP. Not a Singing Hallmark Card playing Brenda Lee's "I'm Sorry" with all the signatures of Parliament.

    [youtube=425,350]iPaCotp_Fck[/youtube]

    If Australians, and us here in America, really wish to make right the wrongs that were done by past government's and administrations, we should all make sure our money is being spent properly (by the government and those who recieve it, which the legislation quixoticly aims to do) and that our governments aren't doing just the bare minimum to eradicate the epidemics of poverty and substance abuse that are slowly wiping these people out.
    Congratulations. You've found the secret MDS signature. Please send your answers to "Old Blue", care of the funny farm, Chalford...

  6. #31
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    Re: Australia to ban alcohol for Aborigines

    We're a long way from righting wrongs - This year in NSW the people re-elected the Labor government for another long term 

    But suppose we did say 'sorry'... what next?  I don't suppose the aboriginals will clean up their act or whatever, just as i doubt the governments will make any extra effort towards further and total reconciliation.  If both happen, then happy days for Australia.  If not, well who knows how low it can go.

  7. #32
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    Re: Australia to ban alcohol for Aborigines

    The problem with a lot of the Aboriginals, is that they take an attitude that the world owes them a living, because of what was done to them in the past. So they live off welfare, they spend all day at the pub, they sniff their petrol, they do whatever they want, because they feel that it’s their right to do so. Fair enough, whatever. Do whatever the fuck you want if you’re an adult, but when it’s affecting a child, a child who depends on their parents for love, support, a roof over their head and security, and they don’t have that, it turns into a vicious circle that never gets broken, because the child grows up that way.

    Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure there are some aboriginals who are great people. And in no way, shape or form am I lumping them ALL into one category. But, even here in Melbourne, in the city, they are homeless, they sit in the streets drinking their alcohol from their brown paperbags, they harass people for money….they think everything is OWED to them, so they don’t go out and get jobs, and try and improve their lives. Maybe if they were not pissed or high all the time they would actually make something of themselves.

    The aboriginals are not going to take this alcohol/porn ban well. You watch. If someone who lived in a fancy house, who had money and education and a good life turned around and told me I couldn’t drink or watch porn anymore I’d be fuckin pissed off big time.

  8. #33
    Olivia
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    Re: Australia to ban alcohol for Aborigines

    [quote author=LivingDeadDoll link=topic=8263.msg426468#msg426468 date=1182490812]
    The problem with a lot of the Aboriginals, is that they take an attitude that the world owes them a living, because of what was done to them in the past. So they live off welfare, they spend all day at the pub, they sniff their petrol, they do whatever they want, because they feel that it’s their right to do so. Fair enough, whatever. Do whatever the fuck you want if you’re an adult, but when it’s affecting a child, a child who depends on their parents for love, support, a roof over their head and security, and they don’t have that, it turns into a vicious circle that never gets broken, because the child grows up that way.

    [/quote]


    All very well said.

    My favourite Aboriginal person - could he get any more comedic



    Tyson - I thought you were labour all the way? K Rudd will win the next election cause he is just so cute and loveable like a pocket pal.
    Imagine having a PM called K Rudd!!





  9. #34
    Olivia
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    Re: Australia to ban alcohol for Aborigines

    But then again how can anyone resist a face like this?


  10. #35
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    Re: Australia to ban alcohol for Aborigines

    [quote author=Olivia link=topic=8263.msg426473#msg426473 date=1182491498]

    All very well said.

    My favourite Aboriginal person - could he get any more comedic
    *snip!*


    Tyson - I thought you were labour all the way? K Rudd will win the next election cause he is just so cute and loveable like a pocket pal.
    Imagine having a PM called K Rudd!!


    *snip!!*


    [/quote]

    Mundine... He is the epitomy of having no class, brains or balls.  The less i say about that fool the better.

    Nah, i'm primarily a Liberal voter, although i don't really like any party.  They're all pollies! 
    If K Rudd gets elected and that's his new nickname, i think i'll assassinate myself 

  11. #36
    Olivia
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    Re: Australia to ban alcohol for Aborigines

    I love John.  Liberal all the way baybee

    Cargo Bar tonight Tyson!

  12. #37
    deliberate_misuse
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    Re: Australia to ban alcohol for Aborigines

    [quote author=LivingDeadDoll link=topic=8263.msg426468#msg426468 date=1182490812]
    The problem with a lot of the Aboriginals, is that they take an attitude that the world owes them a living, because of what was done to them in the past. So they live off welfare, they spend all day at the pub, they sniff their petrol, they do whatever they want, because they feel that it’s their right to do so. Fair enough, whatever. Do whatever the fuck you want if you’re an adult, but when it’s affecting a child, a child who depends on their parents for love, support, a roof over their head and security, and they don’t have that, it turns into a vicious circle that never gets broken, because the child grows up that way.

    Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure there are some aboriginals who are great people. And in no way, shape or form am I lumping them ALL into one category. But, even here in Melbourne, in the city, they are homeless, they sit in the streets drinking their alcohol from their brown paperbags, they harass people for money….they think everything is OWED to them, so they don’t go out and get jobs, and try and improve their lives. Maybe if they were not pissed or high all the time they would actually make something of themselves.

    The aboriginals are not going to take this alcohol/porn ban well. You watch. If someone who lived in a fancy house, who had money and education and a good life turned around and told me I couldn’t drink or watch porn anymore I’d be fuckin pissed off big time.

    [/quote]

    Substitute the word "aboriginal" with "black" and this arguments sounds very familiar.

  13. #38
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    Re: Australia to ban alcohol for Aborigines

    [quote author=Olivia link=topic=8263.msg426091#msg426091 date=1182474330]
    Fair point but the aboriginals have lived here for thousands of years and there was no problem with alcoholism until recently - why didn't they make it before?
    [/quote]

    Insufficient water supply perhaps?

  14. #39
    the color nine
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    Re: Australia to ban alcohol for Aborigines

    Evonne Goolagong winning Wimbleton

    She is one of eight children from an Australian Aboriginal family, being a member of the Wiradjuri people. She grew up in the small country town of Barellan, New South Wales. Her father, Kenny Goolagong, was an itinerant sheep shearer. Although Aboriginal people faced widespread discrimination in rural Australia at this time, Evonne was able to play tennis in Barellan from childhood thanks to a kindly resident, Bill Kurtzman, who saw her peering through the fence at the local courts and encouraged her to come in and play. In 1967, the proprietor of a tennis school in Sydney, Vic Edwards, tipped off by two of his assistants, traveled upcountry to take a look at the young Evonne and immediately saw her potential. He convinced her parents to allow Evonne to move to Sydney, where she was coached by Edwards and lived in his household

    She was how I learned about the Aboriginal people, back in the day.  I have some questions to Olivia or anyone who knows.
    Are there mixed tribes living in the Northern Territory?  The article above stated she was from New South Wales, so I assume that the Aborigines live throughout Australia?

  15. #40
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    Re: Australia to ban alcohol for Aborigines

    [quote author=deliberate_misuse link=topic=8263.msg426133#msg426133 date=1182476966]
    I can just imagine the hue and cry if our government proposed banning alcohol and pornography on our reservations.  Blah, blah, blah, trampling on one's civil liberties, blah, blah, blah.
    [/quote]

    http://www.aaanet.org/committees/ethics/case16.htm

    Actually, in the states there are such rules. They now have the choice to elect being dry. 

    http://www.gannett.com/go/difference/greatfalls/pages/part8/dry.html

    However, alcoholism remains a large problem on reservations, and while people come up with theories like 'oh, it's because native americans can't hold their liquor', I think it has more to do with poverty.

  16. #41
    Olivia
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    Re: Australia to ban alcohol for Aborigines

    [quote author=the color nine link=topic=8263.msg427983#msg427983 date=1182557814]

    She was how I learned about the Aboriginal people, back in the day.  I have some questions to Olivia or anyone who knows.
    Are there mixed tribes living in the Northern Territory?  The article above stated she was from New South Wales, so I assume that the Aborigines live throughout Australia?
    [/quote]

    According to wiki the total amount of Aboriginal people in each Australian state-

    New South Wales
    134,888

    Queensland
    127,950

    Western Australia
    67,931

    Northern Territory
    60,875

    Victoria
    30,046

    South Australia
    26,544

    Tasmania
    17,384

    ACT
    3,909

    Other Territories
    450

    Total: approx 500,000

    What do you mean by mixed tribes?  As in lots of different tribes?  Yep I think so.

  17. #42
    the color nine
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    Re: Australia to ban alcohol for Aborigines

    Yes, sorry.  Different tribes living together in the Norther Territory.  Thanks for the information.

  18. #43

    Re: Australia to ban alcohol for Aborigines

    I remember one time, a drunk aboriginal stumbled into my work with silly string in his hair and yelled at me for a prawn.

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