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Thread: Ahmaud Arbery (25) was shot and killed by an ex cop and his son, because he was jogging and they said he looked like a person suspected in recent break-ins

  1. #76
    Cousin Greg Angiebla's Avatar
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    I cant find live video of the verdict, but Im so happy! Finally sometimes the jury gets it right. I said from day 1 this was murder (possibly premeditated because intent can happen in a blink of an eye).

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    Senior Member Queena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angiebla View Post
    I cant find live video of the verdict, but Im so happy! Finally sometimes the jury gets it right. I said from day 1 this was murder (possibly premeditated because intent can happen in a blink of an eye).
    I too was happy. At least someone is getting justice. I saw a interview with the father of one the victims (Rittenhouse)and he was so sad and not understanding how and why the GQP were so happy about the verdict. I can’t imagine.

  3. #78
    Moderator raisedbywolves's Avatar
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    https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...=pocket-newtab

    How a shaky cellphone video changed the course of the Ahmaud Arbery murder case

    The first news story about the Feb. 23, 2020, shooting of Ahmaud Arbery, a mere four paragraphs, offered little detail about what led to the death of the 25-year-old.

    In the small coastal Georgia town of Brunswick, rumors swirled about a Black man who was shot while being pursued by two armed White men in a pickup truck, but no one was charged and the case received little attention nationally. It wasn’t until May 5, when a local radio station uploaded graphic footage of the deadly chase, that widespread outrage ensued. Two days later — 74 days after Arbery was killed while on a jog — arrests were made.

    The convictions of Travis McMichael, 35, his father, Greg McMichael, 65, and their neighbor William “Roddie” Bryan, 52, on Wednesday raised recollections of the beginning of the case when police let the men walk free and two prosecutors did not press charges. Yet, after just two days of deliberations, the jury found the three men guilty of murder and other charges for the pursuit and fatal shooting of Arbery.

    “We came very close to this crime not being prosecuted at all,” said Clark D. Cunningham, a professor at the Georgia State University College of Law.

    After the Brunswick district attorney and Waycross district attorney recused themselves without charging the men, Cunningham noted two aspects of the case that made the arrests — and subsequent convictions — possible: Greg McMichael’s decision to share the video of the slaying with the public and Arbery’s outspoken family receiving national support and attention.

    “We shouldn’t count on those kinds of things for justice to be done,” Cunningham said.

    Arbery, a former high school football standout and avid runner, was killed weeks before George Floyd. But it wasn’t until the release of the video — showing men chasing him, cornering him and shooting him on a quiet suburban street — that the violence helped amplify the racial justice demonstrations of last year.

    In an unlikely turn of events, Greg McMichael, with the help of attorney Alan Tucker, brought Bryan’s unsteady cellphone footage to radio station WGIG with the hope of absolving the men in the court of public opinion, WSB-TV Channel 2 reported.

    “There had been very little information provided by the police department or the district attorney’s office, but there was entirely too much speculation, rumor, false narratives, and outright lies surrounding this event,” Tucker told Georgia Public Broadcasting last year. Tucker did not respond to requests for comment from The Washington Post on Wednesday. The McMichaels’ attorneys did not immediately respond to similar requests Wednesday night.

    Instead, the video published online by the radio station surfaced questions nationwide about racial profiling and the lack of criminal charges.

    At the time, Joe Biden, the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, called it a lynching “before our very eyes.”

    Like Cunningham, University of Maryland sociology professor Rashawn Ray said there wouldn’t have been a trial, let alone a conviction, without the video repeatedly aired in court after Greg McMichael made it public.

    “Video is an objective observer,” Ray said. “It’s very clear what happened. And I think part of what the McMichaels were trying to leverage was what their defense attorneys were trying to allege: that the mere presence, the mere physical body of Ahmaud Arbery as a Black person just running through the street should pose a big enough threat to justify their use of force.”

    For the nation, outrage ensued after the release of the footage of Arbery’s killing.

    But for Larry Hobbs, who wrote that first short news article, doubts about the case were raised at the onset.

    Hobbs, one of four reporters at the daily Brunswick News, said police wouldn’t answer his questions or even tell him Arbery’s name, which he discovered by calling the coroner. He published four stories before he obtained the police report, based almost entirely on an interview with Greg McMichael, who said he told his son to grab his gun when he saw a Black man running.

    “Red flags start going up,” Hobbs said. “All the things started falling into place that this wasn’t right.”

    Prosecutors were also not forthcoming, he said. Jackie Johnson, the Brunswick district attorney who was later indicted over her handling of the investigation and was voted out of office, gave the case to Waycross District Attorney George Barnhill. Barnhill justified the use of force as a lawful “citizen’s arrest” in a letter to police. Meanwhile, he told Hobbs he was still investigating, Hobbs said.

    “The main thing I did was just not let go of it,” Hobbs said. “I didn’t do any great writing. I didn’t do any investigative reporting. I’m a small-town newspaper. We don’t really have time to invest. I come in every day and there’s an empty newspaper I have to do my part to fill up.”

    At that time, the New York Times reported on the shooting, bringing national exposure and emerging details of the video that would later be released. Still, Hobbs has been credited for his dogged reporting, as he stayed on the case, covering the trial every day until he wrote Wednesday’s story of the conviction.


    “Guilty. Guilty. Guilty,” he wrote.

    Leaving the courthouse, Hobbs spoke with Arbery’s father, Marcus, and choked up hearing him say his son just wanted to “run and dream.”

    “In times of reckoning, we’ve come up wanting so many times, especially people from my demographic,” Hobbs said. “The South got it right today.”

  4. #79
    Senior Member curiouscat's Avatar
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    I don't like Hobbs' writing style. He's too much of a "comedian" and his word usage is abhorrent. Check out Brunswick News' crime reports to see what I mean.
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    I don't have a thousand dollars hanging around to buy a fart in a jar lol.

  5. #80
    Moderator raisedbywolves's Avatar
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    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime...son/ar-AASwYJC

    All 3 of Ahmaud Arbery's convicted killers get sentenced to life in prison

    The three men convicted of killing Ahmaud Arbery have been sentenced.

    Travis McMichael, 35, was sentenced to life without the possible of parole. He delivered the deadly shot and was convicted on all nine charges: malice murder, four counts of felony murder, aggravated assault with a shotgun, aggravated assault with a pickup truck, false imprisonment and criminal intent to commit a felony.

    McMichael's father, Gregory McMichael, 65, was sentenced to life without the possible of parole. The former Georgia police officer was found not guilty of malice murder but was convicted on the remaining charges, including the felony murder counts.

    The McMichaels' neighbor, William "Roddie" Bryan, 53, was sentenced to life with the possibility of parole. He was found guilty of three of the felony murder counts as well as charges of aggravated assault with his pickup truck, false imprisonment and criminal intent to commit a felony.

  6. #81
    Senior Member Bewitchingstorm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisedbywolves View Post
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime...son/ar-AASwYJC

    All 3 of Ahmaud Arbery's convicted killers get sentenced to life in prison
    Best news of the year thus far!!!

  7. #82
    Moderator raisedbywolves's Avatar
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    https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/31/us/tr...ges/index.html

    Federal judge rejects plea agreement in Travis McMichael's hate crime case

    US District Judge Lisa G. Wood on Monday rejected the plea deal reached by prosecutors and Travis McMichael on hate crime charges, a plan that would have precluded his federal trial in killing of Ahmaud Arbery.
    Earlier, McMichael had agreed to plead guilty to a single hate crime charge in exchange for the prosecution recommending he serve 30 years in federal prison.
    The judge had been expected to rule separately on the plea deal for McMichael's father, Gregory McMichael, in a hearing originally scheduled to begin 45 minutes after the first court session.

    But after the judge's rejection of the plea deal, attorneys for both McMichaels asked for more time to decide whether to change their pleas to guilty. The next hearing will be Friday.

    Arbery's mother, Wanda Cooper-Jones, was angered by the proposed deal and told the court that a state judge gave the McMichaels exactly what they deserve after they were convicted of state charges and urged Wood not to accept it.
    A prosecutor told Wood that the plea was important because Travis McMichael was admitting not only to the crime of killing Arbery, but also the racial animus that drove him to commit murder.

    In telling Wood he agreed to the deal, Travis McMichael conceded that he had killed Arbery as he ran down a public street, and "acted because of Mr. Arbery's race or color."

    The trial is scheduled for Monday with the start of jury selection.

  8. #83
    Senior Member curiouscat's Avatar
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    I don't understand why there's another trial since all the men will spend the rest of their lives in prison?!
    Waste of my taxpaying money.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Babe 73 View Post
    I don't have a thousand dollars hanging around to buy a fart in a jar lol.

  9. #84
    Moderator raisedbywolves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by curiouscat View Post
    I don't understand why there's another trial since all the men will spend the rest of their lives in prison?!
    Waste of my taxpaying money.
    My guess is because they fear they will probably appeal and possibly get the first sentences set aside or overturned.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by curiouscat View Post
    I don't understand why there's another trial since all the men will spend the rest of their lives in prison?!
    Waste of my taxpaying money.
    Quote Originally Posted by raisedbywolves View Post
    My guess is because they fear they will probably appeal and possibly get the first sentences set aside or overturned.
    https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/06/us/ah...kup/index.html

    State prosecutors mostly avoided race in trying Ahmaud Arbery's killers. Feds won't have that option

    Georgia prosecutors proved Ahmaud Arbery's killers guilty of murder. Now, lawyers for the federal government will try to prove they chased down the 25-year-old jogger because he was Black.
    That case may be tougher to make.

    Jury selection in the federal hate crimes trial for the three White men begins Monday in Brunswick, Georgia, with prosecutors aiming to prove they pursued and tried to kidnap Arbery because of his race, resulting in his death.

    On the line for the defendants -- already serving life sentences on state murder convictions -- are steep fines and more decades behind bars. But for some observers, the stakes reach far beyond the men on trial.

    "It sends a message to every Black person everywhere that you can't hunt people down who are legitimately in a place just because you're afraid. Doing that is racist, and we will punish it," said hate crimes expert and Indiana University law professor Jeannine Bell. "It's not just that it is racist; the government cares about that."

    To secure a conviction on federal interference with rights -- a hate crime -- prosecutors must prove the men acted out of racial animus. Travis McMichael, his father Gregory McMichael and their neighbor, William "Roddie" Bryan, also face attempted kidnapping counts, and the McMichaels each face a weapons charge. The McMichaels' attorneys declined to comment for this story.
    Bryan's counsel, Pete Theodocion, could not speak about the specifics, he said, but expected his team would do its best to earn an acquittal. "It will be a much different trial than was the state case, and we are hoping for the best," he wrote in a Thursday email.
    All three have pleaded not guilty.
    In the state case against the men, the key piece of evidence was a video, released by the defendants, showing them chasing Arbery in February 2020 through their neighborhood as he tried to elude them. Before delivering guilty verdicts, jurors watched the footage: Travis McMichael -- his armed father in the truck bed and Bryan in another truck -- exits his vehicle with a shotgun and fatally shoots Arbery after a brief struggle.

    The prosecutor in the case, Linda Dunikoski, believed the video would be enough to prove murder and other state charges without getting into race or the men's motivation, she told CNN.
    Evidence in the federal case, experts say, isn't so straightforward.

    Though the judge has sealed several evidentiary motions, the murder investigation and previous court proceedings reveal the men sent racially charged texts and social media postings unrelated to Arbery. Confederate imagery on Travis McMichael's truck and Bryan's allegation to police, per a state investigator, that he heard Travis utter a slur after shooting Arbery might also come into play. Attorneys representing Travis McMichael in the state trial have suggested Bryan made up the slur.

    If the judge admits the evidence, will it be enough to meet the burden of a hate crime? Tough to tell, said Michael Moore, the ex-US attorney for the Middle District of Georgia. The texts and social media made public contain "very unsavory and just disgusting commentary," he said, but that alone will not suffice.

    It's like someone who cheats at cards, Moore said: Proving she or he cheats might speak to their propensities and demonstrate they have the character of a thief, but does it mean they robbed a particular bank on a certain day?

    "They've got to go in and say, 'We have this evidence of racial bias and race-related motivation, and that is one of the reasons that (Arbery) was killed,'" the former federal prosecutor said. "The question is: Does the fact that somebody may be a racist -- can you say that is what led to this killing? And I think that's a tougher burden on the government."
    Admissions made in withdrawn plea deal

    In a Monday hearing, Travis McMichael hoped to have most of the federal charges against him dropped in exchange for pleading guilty to interference with rights. He was ready to accept a 30-year sentence, so long as it was served in federal prison.

    In offering to plead guilty, the 36-year-old told US District Judge Lisa Godbey Wood he willfully injured, intimidated and interfered with Arbery because he was enjoying a public street and, as Wood put it, "acted because of Mr. Arbery's race or color."

    Wood scuttled the plea deal after hearing from Arbery's family, whose legal team likened federal prison to a country club.

    "Please listen to me," Arbery's mother, Wanda Cooper-Jones, told the judge. "Granting these men their preferred conditions of confinement would defeat me. It gives them one last chance to spit in my face after murdering my son."

    Wood obliged Arbery's mother, but don't expect Travis McMichael's plea offer to play into the federal trial. After Wood rejected the deal, Travis McMichael withdrew his plea, so the proposed agreement is likely inadmissible, Moore said.

    "There are some very limited exceptions, but I don't see them here," he said, so federal prosecutors "will still bear the burden of proof on the racial motivation."

    In a June 2020 preliminary hearing in state court, Georgia Bureau of Investigation special agent Richard Dial testified there were "numerous times" before Arbery's killing that Travis McMichael used racial slurs on social media and messaging services. He once wrote in an Instagram post unrelated to the killing that he wished someone had "blown that N-word's head off," and on another occasion messaged someone to say he loved his job because there "weren't any N-words anywhere," the agent told the court.

    In federal court Monday, FBI special agent Skylar Barnes outlined for Wood evidence of Travis McMichael's racial animus, including associating African Americans with criminality, wishing crimes to be committed against African Americans and referring to Black people as monkeys, savages and N-words. Wood cut off Barnes before he could elaborate, noting some evidence remained under seal until a jury is seated.

    Bryan's texts and social media, too, were rife with messages "that I personally found disturbing," Dial testified in 2020. Asked by Bryan's then-attorney, Kevin Gough, if the language he viewed was all that uncommon in the South, Dial replied, "I will tell you, sir, that there were terms that he used that I've never encountered before."

    Bryan, 52, once wrote from an airport that it was "great" there weren't members of an unspecified racial demographic there, Dial testified. Additionally, a CBS reporter asked Gough in late 2020 if past remarks outlined in an investigative file -- including multiple uses of the N-word and referring to a Martin Luther King Jr. Day celebration as a "monkey parade" -- meant Bryan was racist.

    Gough said it didn't, and "Roddie Bryan doesn't have a hateful bone in his body." The lawyer wouldn't use the N-word himself, he told CBS, "but I'm not Roddie Bryan." The McMichaels' original attorneys also denied their clients are racists.

    The GBI declined to provide CNN its investigative file, citing the pending federal trial.

    Before some court documents in the federal case were sealed, Bryan's attorney late last year moved to exclude several text exchanges, including communications about MLK Day and texts "wherein Defendant Bryan suggests that a particular bicycle thief was likely black, opines that there are black people unnecessarily on disability, or shows disapproval of his adopted daughter dating an African American."

    Admitting the evidence, his attorney said in the motion risks "rightfully" angering Black jurors and would preclude Bryan from getting a fair trial when prosecutors have no evidence Bryan has ever harmed or suggested harming a person of color.

    Race needn't be the sole motivator

    The feds may have what they need to prove the McMichaels' and Bryan's intent, said Bell, the Indiana University law professor and author of "Hate Thy Neighbor: Move-In Violence and the Persistence of Racial Segregation in American Housing."

    "It's harder if they're connecting it to that particular (killing), but it's not a big extrapolation. They're saying this about individuals that fit Arbery's profile," Bell explained. "You just said you despise these people and then you attacked a person who's jogging, who fits the profile. It's not that big a leap."

    Motions to exclude the texts and social posts won't likely succeed, she predicted, pointing to the US Supreme Court's landmark 1993 ruling in Wisconsin v. Mitchell.

    In that case, Todd Mitchell led a group of young Black men to attack a White teen, saying, "Do you all feel hyped up to move on some White people? ... There goes a White boy; go get him." They beat the White youngster, leaving him in a coma for four days. Found guilty at trial, Mitchell received extra prison time under Wisconsin's hate crime statute.

    Mitchell appealed, saying he was being punished for speech, a First Amendment violation, but when it got to the Supreme Court, justices ruled using past statements in establishing a criminal motive was allowed if it comported with evidentiary rules.

    Continued below

  11. #86
    Moderator raisedbywolves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by curiouscat View Post
    I don't understand why there's another trial since all the men will spend the rest of their lives in prison?!
    Waste of my taxpaying money.
    Quote Originally Posted by raisedbywolves View Post
    My guess is because they fear they will probably appeal and possibly get the first sentences set aside or overturned.
    https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/06/us/ah...kup/index.html

    State prosecutors mostly avoided race in trying Ahmaud Arbery's killers. Feds won't have that option

    Georgia prosecutors proved Ahmaud Arbery's killers guilty of murder. Now, lawyers for the federal government will try to prove they chased down the 25-year-old jogger because he was Black.
    That case may be tougher to make.

    Jury selection in the federal hate crimes trial for the three White men begins Monday in Brunswick, Georgia, with prosecutors aiming to prove they pursued and tried to kidnap Arbery because of his race, resulting in his death.

    On the line for the defendants -- already serving life sentences on state murder convictions -- are steep fines and more decades behind bars. But for some observers, the stakes reach far beyond the men on trial.

    "It sends a message to every Black person everywhere that you can't hunt people down who are legitimately in a place just because you're afraid. Doing that is racist, and we will punish it," said hate crimes expert and Indiana University law professor Jeannine Bell. "It's not just that it is racist; the government cares about that."

    To secure a conviction on federal interference with rights -- a hate crime -- prosecutors must prove the men acted out of racial animus. Travis McMichael, his father Gregory McMichael and their neighbor, William "Roddie" Bryan, also face attempted kidnapping counts, and the McMichaels each face a weapons charge. The McMichaels' attorneys declined to comment for this story.
    Bryan's counsel, Pete Theodocion, could not speak about the specifics, he said, but expected his team would do its best to earn an acquittal. "It will be a much different trial than was the state case, and we are hoping for the best," he wrote in a Thursday email.
    All three have pleaded not guilty.
    In the state case against the men, the key piece of evidence was a video, released by the defendants, showing them chasing Arbery in February 2020 through their neighborhood as he tried to elude them. Before delivering guilty verdicts, jurors watched the footage: Travis McMichael -- his armed father in the truck bed and Bryan in another truck -- exits his vehicle with a shotgun and fatally shoots Arbery after a brief struggle.

    The prosecutor in the case, Linda Dunikoski, believed the video would be enough to prove murder and other state charges without getting into race or the men's motivation, she told CNN.
    Evidence in the federal case, experts say, isn't so straightforward.

    Though the judge has sealed several evidentiary motions, the murder investigation and previous court proceedings reveal the men sent racially charged texts and social media postings unrelated to Arbery. Confederate imagery on Travis McMichael's truck and Bryan's allegation to police, per a state investigator, that he heard Travis utter a slur after shooting Arbery might also come into play. Attorneys representing Travis McMichael in the state trial have suggested Bryan made up the slur.

    If the judge admits the evidence, will it be enough to meet the burden of a hate crime? Tough to tell, said Michael Moore, the ex-US attorney for the Middle District of Georgia. The texts and social media made public contain "very unsavory and just disgusting commentary," he said, but that alone will not suffice.

    It's like someone who cheats at cards, Moore said: Proving she or he cheats might speak to their propensities and demonstrate they have the character of a thief, but does it mean they robbed a particular bank on a certain day?

    "They've got to go in and say, 'We have this evidence of racial bias and race-related motivation, and that is one of the reasons that (Arbery) was killed,'" the former federal prosecutor said. "The question is: Does the fact that somebody may be a racist -- can you say that is what led to this killing? And I think that's a tougher burden on the government."
    Admissions made in withdrawn plea deal

    In a Monday hearing, Travis McMichael hoped to have most of the federal charges against him dropped in exchange for pleading guilty to interference with rights. He was ready to accept a 30-year sentence, so long as it was served in federal prison.

    In offering to plead guilty, the 36-year-old told US District Judge Lisa Godbey Wood he willfully injured, intimidated and interfered with Arbery because he was enjoying a public street and, as Wood put it, "acted because of Mr. Arbery's race or color."

    Wood scuttled the plea deal after hearing from Arbery's family, whose legal team likened federal prison to a country club.

    "Please listen to me," Arbery's mother, Wanda Cooper-Jones, told the judge. "Granting these men their preferred conditions of confinement would defeat me. It gives them one last chance to spit in my face after murdering my son."

    Wood obliged Arbery's mother, but don't expect Travis McMichael's plea offer to play into the federal trial. After Wood rejected the deal, Travis McMichael withdrew his plea, so the proposed agreement is likely inadmissible, Moore said.

    "There are some very limited exceptions, but I don't see them here," he said, so federal prosecutors "will still bear the burden of proof on the racial motivation."

    In a June 2020 preliminary hearing in state court, Georgia Bureau of Investigation special agent Richard Dial testified there were "numerous times" before Arbery's killing that Travis McMichael used racial slurs on social media and messaging services. He once wrote in an Instagram post unrelated to the killing that he wished someone had "blown that N-word's head off," and on another occasion messaged someone to say he loved his job because there "weren't any N-words anywhere," the agent told the court.

    In federal court Monday, FBI special agent Skylar Barnes outlined for Wood evidence of Travis McMichael's racial animus, including associating African Americans with criminality, wishing crimes to be committed against African Americans and referring to Black people as monkeys, savages and N-words. Wood cut off Barnes before he could elaborate, noting some evidence remained under seal until a jury is seated.

    Bryan's texts and social media, too, were rife with messages "that I personally found disturbing," Dial testified in 2020. Asked by Bryan's then-attorney, Kevin Gough, if the language he viewed was all that uncommon in the South, Dial replied, "I will tell you, sir, that there were terms that he used that I've never encountered before."

    Bryan, 52, once wrote from an airport that it was "great" there weren't members of an unspecified racial demographic there, Dial testified. Additionally, a CBS reporter asked Gough in late 2020 if past remarks outlined in an investigative file -- including multiple uses of the N-word and referring to a Martin Luther King Jr. Day celebration as a "monkey parade" -- meant Bryan was racist.

    Gough said it didn't, and "Roddie Bryan doesn't have a hateful bone in his body." The lawyer wouldn't use the N-word himself, he told CBS, "but I'm not Roddie Bryan." The McMichaels' original attorneys also denied their clients are racists.

    The GBI declined to provide CNN its investigative file, citing the pending federal trial.

    Before some court documents in the federal case were sealed, Bryan's attorney late last year moved to exclude several text exchanges, including communications about MLK Day and texts "wherein Defendant Bryan suggests that a particular bicycle thief was likely black, opines that there are black people unnecessarily on disability, or shows disapproval of his adopted daughter dating an African American."

    Admitting the evidence, his attorney said in the motion risks "rightfully" angering Black jurors and would preclude Bryan from getting a fair trial when prosecutors have no evidence Bryan has ever harmed or suggested harming a person of color.

    Race needn't be the sole motivator

    The feds may have what they need to prove the McMichaels' and Bryan's intent, said Bell, the Indiana University law professor and author of "Hate Thy Neighbor: Move-In Violence and the Persistence of Racial Segregation in American Housing."

    "It's harder if they're connecting it to that particular (killing), but it's not a big extrapolation. They're saying this about individuals that fit Arbery's profile," Bell explained. "You just said you despise these people and then you attacked a person who's jogging, who fits the profile. It's not that big a leap."

    Motions to exclude the texts and social posts won't likely succeed, she predicted, pointing to the US Supreme Court's landmark 1993 ruling in Wisconsin v. Mitchell.

    In that case, Todd Mitchell led a group of young Black men to attack a White teen, saying, "Do you all feel hyped up to move on some White people? ... There goes a White boy; go get him." They beat the White youngster, leaving him in a coma for four days. Found guilty at trial, Mitchell received extra prison time under Wisconsin's hate crime statute.

    Mitchell appealed, saying he was being punished for speech, a First Amendment violation, but when it got to the Supreme Court, justices ruled using past statements in establishing a criminal motive was allowed if it comported with evidentiary rules.

    Continued below

  12. #87
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    continued from above


    Bell acknowledges the Wisconsin case is stronger than the federal case against the McMichaels and Bryan, but she still believes the link can be drawn.

    Barring evidence of the defendants using a racial slur during the chase or killing, the text and social posts can provide context for the crime, Moore said, and that may be sufficient because "race doesn't have to be the sole motivator in a hate crimes case."

    The McMichaels and Bryan actually may have unwittingly laid the foundation of their federal defense at state trial, he said. Their attorneys claimed they chased Arbery not because he was Black but because they thought he had committed a crime trespassing at an under-construction home. Bryan joined the pursuit already in progress, his lawyer said.

    If defense lawyers take that tack, expect federal prosecutors to resurrect elements of the state trial, including testimony indicating: Gregory McMichael told police he didn't know if Arbery had committed a crime; White people visited the under-construction home without being confronted by the McMichaels; and Travis McMichael said Arbery wasn't armed and never threatened him.

    State prosecutor avoided race as a strategy

    The myriad racial elements of the case might raise the question of why state prosecutors did not introduce evidence of racial animus during last year's trial.

    In addition to the GBI agent's testimony, state prosecutors sought at one point to introduce evidence Travis McMichael posted what they dubbed a "racial highway video" on Facebook, his father's Facebook post about a neo-Confederate group, the father and son's posts about a White supremacist country singer and Bryan's "racial messages extracted from cell phone," according to a September 2020 court filing.

    Dunikoski, the prosecutor, withdrew the motion herself, she said. It was an agonizing decision, and she and her team wondered if they might kick themselves later, she said, but it turned out to be a solid strategy.

    For one, Georgia didn't have a hate crime law at the time of Arbery's killing. Dunikoski's boss, Cobb County District Attorney Flynn Broady, also instructed the team to avoid making it a Black v. White case and to focus on the murder, she said.

    Dunikoski worried, too, about unnecessarily alienating a juror or stirring any implicit biases. Hypothetically, if she had claimed the Confederate flag on Travis McMichael's truck showed he was racist and one of the jurors had, say, a nephew with a Confederate flag on his own truck, it might have ostracized that juror if she didn't believe her nephew was racist, the prosecutor said.

    Most importantly, Dunikoski didn't need the racially charged texts and social posts, she said. Georgia law does not require prosecutors to prove premeditation or motive in malice or felony murder cases. As she saw it, the video told the story.

    "When we started brainstorming about it, we started actually going, 'Do we need to do this? Is it necessary? Is it going to move the needle toward a guilty verdict?'" she recalled. "What we always said to each other was: 'Everybody could be green, and this is still a homicide. This is not self-defense.' So, why they did what they did became less important than rebutting their affirmative defenses."
    The federal government as 'a balancing force'

    In November, the prosecution's strategy paid off when a jury of nine White women, two White men and one Black man delivered guilty verdicts on charges including murder. Unless they succeed on appeal, the men could die in prison, or at least spend the great majority of their remaining days behind bars.

    In federal court, the hate crime and weapons charges carry sentences up to life in prison, while the attempted kidnapping count calls for a maximum of 20 years. Each count also carries fines of up to $250,000.

    The federal trial, though, may serve a purpose far beyond these defendants. For one, the trial lets local and state governments know the feds are watching and they need to train law enforcement in hate crimes and enforcing the laws, Bell said. They can't just ignore these types of transgressions.

    Wood's rejection of Travis McMichael's plea deal also tells victims they matter and lets prosecutors know they'd do well to keep a wronged family's sentiments in mind when cutting deals that behoove the accused, the professor said.

    Going back to the civil rights movement, Moore said, federal courts and agencies have served as an equalizer, "a balancing force," whether over access to the polls, school integration or, more recently, the disparities in crack and cocaine sentencing.

    That's again true in the Arbery case, he said, noting the state attorney general asked the feds to investigate how the case was being handled weeks before the state grand jury handed its murder indictment. There were also many questions surrounding the initial stages of the case, including a weekslong delay in arresting the McMichaels and Bryan and the recusals of the first two state prosecutors -- one of whom was indicted last year on charges of violating her oath of office and hindering law enforcement in this case.

    While Moore and Bell concur that Dunikoski's team was right not to take on the risky burden of unnecessarily injecting race into the state murder case, race must play an outsized role for federal prosecutors, they said.

    "There are pockets (of the United States) still where you have courts and prosecutors, law enforcement agencies where sometimes the decisions and cases that come out of there seem to reveal ongoing prejudices or home-cooked deals," Moore said. "The Department of Justice is supposed to cure those things."

  13. #88
    Senior Member curiouscat's Avatar
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    I forgot that the federal trial started today. I'm downtown trying to return books to the library and they have the street next to the courthouse blocked off and a few police cars.
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    Senior Member Daisychain's Avatar
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    I just read yesterday about a father/son pair who were recently arrested in MS for attempted murder for chasing and blocking in with their pickup truck a black FedEx driver in their neighborhood. The driver was not shot but his truck was, I think father/son surname is Case. I couldn't fucking believe it. It reminded me so much of this case.
    La tristesse durera toujours - Vincent van Gogh

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    What do you care? Boston Babe 73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daisychain View Post
    I just read yesterday about a father/son pair who were recently arrested in MS for attempted murder for chasing and blocking in with their pickup truck a black FedEx driver in their neighborhood. The driver was not shot but his truck was, I think father/son surname is Case. I couldn't fucking believe it. It reminded me so much of this case.
    What the fuck is wrong with people?!
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    I thought the exact same thing. Poor Brennen Tammons.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Babe 73 View Post
    What the fuck is wrong with people?!
    They are used to being able to do this with impunity. Things are changing, and thank God. I can't imagine being chased and shot at. That sounds so traumatizing.


    I was wondering why they were going through with the federal trial myself. I think that it's because there's a good chance that a Georgia Supreme Court Judge would reduce the sentence on appeal. In federal court that's not likely. However, federal prison is better than state prison. They're cleaner, and have better food etc. I think that Georgia still uses private prisons while the government doesn't (not sure if Trump changed that) and most criminals would pick Fed's over state if given the choice. I'm sure that Georgia prisons are still unofficially segregated as are the federal prisons, so they will be safe regardless. I know that in Illinois they stopped the unofficial segregation and now make sure to mix all prisoners up to cut down on gang activity and violence.

    Y'all know that I asked everyone that I knew and researched this. LOL

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    Senior Member KimTisha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Queenatoo View Post
    They are used to being able to do this with impunity. Things are changing, and thank God. I can't imagine being chased and shot at. That sounds so traumatizing.


    I was wondering why they were going through with the federal trial myself. I think that it's because there's a good chance that a Georgia Supreme Court Judge would reduce the sentence on appeal. In federal court that's not likely. However, federal prison is better than state prison. They're cleaner, and have better food etc. I think that Georgia still uses private prisons while the government doesn't (not sure if Trump changed that) and most criminals would pick Fed's over state if given the choice. I'm sure that Georgia prisons are still unofficially segregated as are the federal prisons, so they will be safe regardless. I know that in Illinois they stopped the unofficial segregation and now make sure to mix all prisoners up to cut down on gang activity and violence.

    Y'all know that I asked everyone that I knew and researched this. LOL
    Good point. Also, your "friends" advised you correctly. Federal prisons are often referred to as "Club Fed" for good reason.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimTisha View Post
    Good point. Also, your "friends" advised you correctly. Federal prisons are often referred to as "Club Fed" for good reason.
    I think federal prisons are less predatory in their fees and expenses. It's a damn shame how much money they try to bilk out of prisoners and their families. Phone fees, food, clothing, etc IMO if they're going to work then the jobs should pay enough to support them. I think that it's $0.20 an hour. It's 2022 and correction doesn't have to mean slavery.

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    Senior Member Daisychain's Avatar
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    Guys. Think of it this way: the federal trial is basically a hate crimes trial. It is for the deprivation of his civil rights. Ahmaud's mom didn't even really care about the convictions in this case because she knew they were never making it out prison alive, she just wanted to prove to the country that this was a crime done out of racial animus. She wanted all the ugly, disgusting, putrid, embarrassing evidence they found on these men to be shown to the world because they withheld it from the first trial in order to secure a conviction with a mostly white jury, and there was PLENTY. The evidence in this case is fucking vile. Some of it was hard to read. They were unable to get into Greg McMichael's (the father) phone, but they had people come in to testify about shit he had said to them. You guys remember how we couldn't believe how many of the white people on that jury read that right wing trash like the Epoch Times and that shit? Well the judge had ruled that the confederate license plate on the truck that was chasing Ahmaud was admissable evidence at trial, yet the prosecution chose not to use that nor any sort of other racial overtones in order to make the case just about a man who was chased through a neighborhood and shot in the street. You have to remember they saw graphic upclose bodycam footage of him from above laying on the pavement with a gaping shotgun wound in his chest, still alive, and gasping for breath. That was a tactical decision the prosecution made to take the racial aspect from the case and just handle the human aspect. The federal trial then was able to lay out all that ugly shit they didn't show in the other trial, it's like a sister trial, the necessary other half, that's why his mom was SO upset when they made that deal without telling her. Because you guys are right, federal prisons are country clubs compared to state prisons (less crowded, better maintained, less violent, etc.)

    TLDR: The second trial is a totally separate trial for the violation of Ahmaud's civil rights, a hate crimes trial. I am a news and politics junkie, I did not see the convo about the difference between the two trials until now. I need to hop on MDS more often to school y'all
    La tristesse durera toujours - Vincent van Gogh

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    Moderator puzzld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daisychain View Post
    Guys. Think of it this way: the federal trial is basically a hate crimes trial. It is for the deprivation of his civil rights. Ahmaud's mom didn't even really care about the convictions in this case because she knew they were never making it out prison alive, she just wanted to prove to the country that this was a crime done out of racial animus. She wanted all the ugly, disgusting, putrid, embarrassing evidence they found on these men to be shown to the world because they withheld it from the first trial in order to secure a conviction with a mostly white jury, and there was PLENTY. The evidence in this case is fucking vile. Some of it was hard to read. They were unable to get into Greg McMichael's (the father) phone, but they had people come in to testify about shit he had said to them. You guys remember how we couldn't believe how many of the white people on that jury read that right wing trash like the Epoch Times and that shit? Well the judge had ruled that the confederate license plate on the truck that was chasing Ahmaud was admissable evidence at trial, yet the prosecution chose not to use that nor any sort of other racial overtones in order to make the case just about a man who was chased through a neighborhood and shot in the street. You have to remember they saw graphic upclose bodycam footage of him from above laying on the pavement with a gaping shotgun wound in his chest, still alive, and gasping for breath. That was a tactical decision the prosecution made to take the racial aspect from the case and just handle the human aspect. The federal trial then was able to lay out all that ugly shit they didn't show in the other trial, it's like a sister trial, the necessary other half, that's why his mom was SO upset when they made that deal without telling her. Because you guys are right, federal prisons are country clubs compared to state prisons (less crowded, better maintained, less violent, etc.)

    TLDR: The second trial is a totally separate trial for the violation of Ahmaud's civil rights, a hate crimes trial. I am a news and politics junkie, I did not see the convo about the difference between the two trials until now. I need to hop on MDS more often to school y'all
    Yep. Just like Emmett Till's mother had them leave the coffin open so the world could see...
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    Moderator raisedbywolves's Avatar
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    https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/ahm...ict/index.html

    Ahmaud Arbery's killers found guilty on all counts in federal hate crime trial

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    Scoopski Potatoes Nic B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisedbywolves View Post
    https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/ahm...ict/index.html

    Ahmaud Arbery's killers found guilty on all counts in federal hate crime trial


    Quote Originally Posted by marakisses View Post
    yes i said i will leave it under you storage he said cuddle with me i said shut up it over??? what am i doing wrong??
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  23. #98
    Senior Member curiouscat's Avatar
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    On my cell.
    Former DA Johnson trying to weasel her way out of going to jail.
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    This case is local to me, and reaffirms my stance on capital punishment. These fuckers need to die. Yeah, yeah, it doesn't solve anything, blah blah...whatthefuckever. It removes a criminal asshole element from the land of the living, and that's enough for me. Fuck these losers. Fuck every single shithead douchetool who supports them, too. Fuck them with a rusty spade. They can all take a long walk off a short pier into a dry lakebed full of poisonous reptiles.

    These guys knew what they were doing. Knew it was wrong. Didn't care. Did it anyway. And we need to hold everyone who kept this case "under wraps" just as accountable, because they are just as fucking guilty.
    Don't like what I have to say? I respect that. Now go fuck yourself.

  25. #100
    Moderator raisedbywolves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevansvault View Post
    This case is local to me, and reaffirms my stance on capital punishment. These fuckers need to die. Yeah, yeah, it doesn't solve anything, blah blah...whatthefuckever. It removes a criminal asshole element from the land of the living, and that's enough for me. Fuck these losers. Fuck every single shithead douchetool who supports them, too. Fuck them with a rusty spade. They can all take a long walk off a short pier into a dry lakebed full of poisonous reptiles.

    These guys knew what they were doing. Knew it was wrong. Didn't care. Did it anyway. And we need to hold everyone who kept this case "under wraps" just as accountable, because they are just as fucking guilty.
    I thought you lived in the DFW area.

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