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Thread: Human bone fragments found inside Vatican could be those of missing teen, Emanuela Orlandi (15)

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    Human bone fragments found inside Vatican could be those of missing teen, Emanuela Orlandi (15)

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-...found/10453808



    Human bone fragments found inside Vatican could be those of missing 15-year-old girl
    Posted about 4 hours ago

    Black and white image of poster of missing Italian teenager Emanuela Orlandi who went missing in 1983

    PHOTO: A poster seeking information on Italian teenager Emanuela Orlandi, who went missing in 1983. (AP)




    Human bone fragments that could belong to a 15-year-old girl who went missing more than 30 years ago in the Vatican have been found, leading the lawyer for the missing girl's family to urge Italian prosecutors and the Vatican to release more details.

    Key points:

    Emanuela Orlandi, daughter of a Vatican employee, went missing in 1983

    A second teenager, Mirella Gregori, also went missing in 1983

    Experts are attempting to identify the bone fragments through DNA




    The discovery of the bone fragments were found in an annex of Holy See's embassy in Rome on Tuesday (local time), which raised immediate speculation over whether they belong to Emanuela Orlandi, the daughter of a Vatican employee whose fate remains one of the Vatican's most enduring mysteries.

    News agency ANSA reported that prosecutors were focusing on whether the remains could be linked either to Orlandi, who disappeared in June 22, 1983, or another 15-year-old girl, Mirella Gregori, who went missing a month earlier in Rome, on May 7, 1983.

    Orlandi disappeared after leaving her family's Vatican City apartment to go to a music lesson in Rome.

    "We are asking Rome prosecutors and the Holy See by what means the bones were found and how their discovery was placed in relation to the disappearances of Emanuela Orlandi and Mirella Gregori," lawyer Laura Scro said, adding that the Vatican statement '"provides little information".

    The Vatican said human bone fragments were found this week during renovations of a room annexed to the embassy and that Italian forensic experts had been approached by prosecutors to determine the age and gender of the body, and a possible date of death.

    Experts said say that could be determined within the next 10 days if adequate DNA was extracted from the fragments.

    The Orlandi and Gregori disappearances have never been formally linked.

    The Orlandi disappearance is by far the higher profile, with its Vatican links and many twists.

    Over the years, her case has been linked to everything from the plot to kill St John Paul II to the financial scandal of the Vatican bank and Rome's criminal underworld.

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    Do you know how many people go to Vatican City everyday and these bones have just now been found?!
    Quote Originally Posted by daisylane View Post
    Yo mama such a ho, that Foursquare has made her vag a place to "check in".

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    From last year :

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/19/w...vatileaks.html


    ROME ? The disclosure this week of a five-page, typewritten document that was stolen from an armored cabinet inside the Vatican has revived the mystery surrounding a 15-year-old who vanished in 1983.

    The fate of the teenager, Emanuela Orlandi, has been the subject of much speculation, and the document ? purportedly written by a cardinal ? suggests that the Vatican may have been directly involved in her disappearance.

    The Vatican called the document fake, and a spokesman, Greg Burke, called the allegations contained in it ?false and ridiculous.?

    Even the investigative journalist who published the document said it could be a fake, noting that it remains unclear who wrote the document, when or ? crucially ? why.




    But the journalist, Emiliano Fittipaldi, who despite his reservations included the typewritten missive in a book to be published this week, says the mere fact that it had been found in a Vatican office raised ?very unsettling questions.? The Italian press has reported widely on the case.

    Whether genuine, or a forgery intended to ?threaten, blackmail or create confusion,? the document ?comes from inside the Vatican,? Mr. Fittipaldi, one of two reporters tried and acquitted for leaking documents in the so-called ?Vatileaks 2? trial, said at a news conference on Monday.

    ?If it is true, it opens up incredible chapters in a story that?s still murky,? he said.

    ?If it is false, it is equally disturbing,? he added, because it implies behind-the-scenes maneuvers to discredit the Vatican and cause havoc.


    Emanuela Orlandi in an undated photo.
    CreditAssociated Press




    He urged the Vatican to disclose whether investigators had ever examined the document ? ?a poisoned meatball,? he called it ? and its provenance.


    Ms. Orlandi was the daughter of a Vatican employee, making her a citizen of the papal city-state, although she vanished from a Rome street.

    Shortly after she disappeared, anonymous calls, presumably by the kidnappers, said the girl would be freed upon the release of Mehmet Ali Agca, the Turkish gunman who tried to kill Pope John Paul II in 1981. (After nearly three decades in Italian and Turkish prisons, Mr. Agca was released in 2010.)

    Over the decades, other theories emerged, linking the kidnapping to Italy?s secret services or to organized crime. One theory suggested that Ms. Orlandi had been abducted at the behest of an American archbishop, Paul C. Marcinkus, a former president of the Vatican bank who was linked to a major scandal and died in 2006.

    A gangster?s tomb was exhumed in 2012 for potential clues, but the mystery endured.

    The Vatican has said that it has nothing new to say about the case.

    The newly disclosed document is titled, ?A summary of expenses sustained by Vatican City State for the activities related to citizen Emanuela Orlandi (Rome January 14 1968),? her birth date.

    Supposedly written by one cardinal to two archbishops, it is effectively a running tab of charges incurred between 1983 and 1997 for a total of 483 million lire ? which would be about 250,000 euro, nearly $300,000, today.

    The itemized costs include various ?transfers,? ?room and board? in London and elsewhere, and various medical expenses, including for a gynecologist. A number of items refer to Vatican-funded investigations to find her.


    Mr. Fittipaldi said the document implies that the Vatican succeeded in tracking down Ms. Orlandi, but ?instead of returning her to her family, they kept her in London, it?s unclear why.? He added that it was ?wrong to leap to conclusions.?


    The victim?s brother, Pietro Orlandi, who has spent decades searching for the truth of her disappearance, said that if his sister made it to London, it was inconceivable that she would not have reached out.

    ?It is clear that she wasn?t able to move freely,? Mr. Orlandi said in a phone interview. ?Should the document be real, it is very serious, because it implicates the Vatican in a kidnapping.?

    He called on the Vatican to collaborate in a fresh investigation. ?You can?t close a case when new documents emerge after 34 years that still have to be verified,? he said.

    The document is believed to be among several others stolen on March 29, 2014, from a locked cabinet in a Vatican office.

    A month after the theft, some of the documents ? including the one released this week ? were returned, with no indication of who had stolen them.


    I'd never heard of this case before today, seems there are a lot of conspiracy theories about her disappearance, but the sad truth is that churches are so full of abusers she was probably assaulted & murdered by someone with a connection to her or her family

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    Lots of conspiracy theories


    From 2012

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...n-missing-girl


    The Vatican is under pressure to help resolve one of the strangest of many enigmas lingering in Italy from the cold war years.

    For four years, prosecutors in Rome have been making a renewed attempt to get at the truth behind the disappearance in 1983 of Emanuela Orlandi, the 15-year-old daughter of a Vatican employee.

    They are seeking to ascertain whether she was seized by a notorious band of Rome criminals, and whether this has any bearing on the fact that the leader of the gang was buried in a Vatican basilica normally reserved for cardinals and other illustrious prelates.

    Last month, Walter Veltroni, a former deputy prime minister, asked the interior minister in Mario Monti's government to confirm that the basilica of Sant'Apollinare, a few yards from the Piazza Navona in central Rome, did not enjoy extra-territorial status and was thus subject to Italian law.



    His question was interpreted as an attempt to clear the way for the prosecutors to order the reopening of the tomb in which gangster Enrico de Pedis has been interred since 1990.

    Emanuela's body has never been found and, according to one of the many theories about her disappearance, it was laid to rest alongside that of De Pedis. But at the beginning of the month, prosecutors unexpectedly withdrew support for the exhumation while briefing Italian reporters that they believed at least one high-ranking Roman Catholic cleric had information about her disappearance.

    A source close to the prosecution service was quoted as saying "behind the sacred walls, someone is still alive [and] in possession of evidential fragments of the truth". But in an interview with the daily Corriere della Sera, Cardinal Giovanni Battista Re said: "If anyone on the inside had known anything, he would have said it. We were all interested in clearing [the case] up."

    Her brother, Pietro Orlandi, expressed astonishment at the prosecutors' decision not to open De Pedis's tomb. "I don't understand what could have made them change their minds," he said.

    According to a report in the Rome daily La Repubblica, the prosecutor leading the inquiry has visited the crypt where the gangster is buried under a marble structure copied from the tomb of a pope.

    Conspiracy theorists have linked Emanuela's disappearance at a bus stop to any number of other events. She vanished as investigators were looking into the still obscure reasons for the assassination attempt on Pope John Paul II, and the murky affairs of the Vatican bank after the mysterious death in London of the financier Roberto Calvi.

    In 2005, attempts to solve the case were given new life when an anonymous caller rang an Italian television programme to allege that Emanuela had been kidnapped as a favour to the man who was in 1983 the vicar general of Rome, Cardinal Ugo Poletti, and that whoever sought to solve the riddle should see who was buried in the basilica of Sant'Apollinare.

    Subsequently De Pedis's former lover gave prosecutors another explanation: that Emanuela had been kidnapped and murdered by the gang on the orders of Archbishop Paul Marcinkus, at that time the president of the Vatican Bank. Marcinkus died in 2006.

    Last year, a former gang member offered a third version, saying the teenager had been seized and held hostage in an effort to get back money invested by its members through the Vatican bank.

    Antonio Mancini said that De Pedis decided to write off the money and stop pressuring the Vatican, and claimed this was how the gangster earned his interment in one of Rome's most august places of worship.

    De Pedis ? nicknamed Renatino ? was shot dead in an ambush in a cobbled street near the Campo de' Fiori in 1990. The moving of his body from a cemetery to the basilica of Sant'Apollinare only came to light seven years later because of investigations by a journalist.

    It subsequently emerged that the move was authorised ? in apparent violation of canon law ? by Cardinal Poletti.

    The rector of the basilica at the time, Piero Vergari, later wrote: "I never knew anything about [De Pedis's] relations with other people ? He helped me a lot to prepare the soup kitchens I organised for the poor."


    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-18057403

    Mobster Enrico De Pedis' body exhumed in Rome
    14 May 2012


    The body has been exhumed from Saint Apollinare basilica in Rome

    Officials in Rome have exhumed the body of infamous Italian gangster Enrico De Pedis, who was killed in 1990.

    Investigators hope to find new evidence about the disappearance of a 15-year-old girl, Emanuela Orlandi. De Pedis's former girlfriend said he had kidnapped the teenager.

    An anonymous call to a TV show in 2005 said the clue to the case lies in De Pedis' tomb.

    Emanuela Orlandi disappeared on her way to a piano class in Rome in 1983.

    Ever since, police have been trying to solve the mystery of her disappearance.



    De Pedis was a significant figure in Rome's underworld at the time of the disappearance.

    The BBC's Alan Johnston in Rome notes that for some, his notoriety clashes with what is seen as an honorary privilege granted to him after his death.

    He is buried in one of Rome's most important churches, Saint Apollinare - the final resting place of a number of cardinals and senior figures in the Vatican.

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    Quote Originally Posted by curiouscat View Post
    Do you know how many people go to Vatican City everyday and these bones have just now been found?!
    Whoops, I was so busy trawling all these old articles I missed your post


    I'm thinking the bones might've been concealed inside a wall or under a floor because they said they were discovered during renovations of a room?

    If that really is the case, I guess it'd explain why it took 30+ years to find them - that's if it's even her. It seems like she's Italy's version of Australia's Beaumont Kids case - every few years there's a new dig site, or someone claims they 100% know who took them

    But it's never led to their bodies, or even the tiniest new piece of evidence

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    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...-missing-woman

    The family of an Italian woman missing for 36 years received positive news Tuesday related to the ongoing investigation into her June 1983 disappearance.

    Emanuela Orlandi, a resident of Vatican City, was 15 years old when she vanished without a trace. Her family has searched for her tirelessly since that time, but with few reliable clues or sources found over the years. She was reportedly last seen getting into an unidentified vehicle following a music lesson on the day she disappeared. Her father died in 2004.

    A lawyer for the family revealed that in March that the Orlandi family received a cryptic letter and photo that seemed to reference the Vatican's Teutonic Cemetery — specifically, a tomb within the small medieval cemetery adorned with a sculpted angel. The letter said, "look where the angel is pointing" in a gesture to the tomb below it. Initial inspection by the Vatican revealed that the tomb did appear to have been opened at some point after its construction several hundred years ago.

    The Teutonic Cemetery is one of the Vatican's smaller burial grounds and is generally reserved for German-speaking priests and clergymen. The press office of the Vatican confirmed Tuesday that they had authorized an unsealing of the tomb in the photo, as well as another tomb nearby.

    Several theories surround Orlandi's disappearance, including that she was kidnapped and murdered, caught up in gang activity, or involved in a plot to assassinate the pope. The family has not recently expressed belief that she is currently living. A skull discovered in a Vatican confessional in 2001 raised some question as to whether it belonged to the missing girl, but Italian authorities never confirmed or denied that the remains were those of Orlandi.

    The tombs will be opened on July 11 in the presence of the Orlandi family and family members of those buried in the tombs. The Vatican has been careful to address that whatever discoveries are made could only lead to identification of remains through DNA testing and that any criminal investigation still falls to Italian authorities to pursue.

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    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/vatican...emetery-angel/

    The tiny, 1,200-year-old Teutonic Cemetery is the only graveyard inside the walls of Vatican City. The cemetery just behind St. Peter's Basilica is the final resting place of royals, cardinals, artists -- and, just maybe, a teenage girl who disappeared 36 years ago without a trace.

    The Vatican will open two 19th century graves in the cemetery on Thursday morning to let forensic experts look for the remains of Emanuela Orlandi. She was the 15 year-old-daughter of a Vatican bank employee whose family lived inside Vatican City. Orlandi was last seen at a bus stop in central Rome after leaving a flute lesson on June 22, 1983.

    One of the tombs to be opened, known as the "Tomb of the Angel" contains the remains of Princess Sophie von Hohenlohe, who died in 1836. The other is the resting place of Princess Carlotta Federica of Mecklemburg, who died in 1840. Members of their families, Orlandi's, and forensics scientists and Vatican police will all be present when the tombs are unsealed.

    Orlandi's mother still lives in Vatican City, close to the Teutonic Cemetery. After searching for Emanuela incessantly for three decades, "the family won't be happy if they find Emanuela's corpse just 200 yards from their home," Orlandi family lawyer Laura Sgro told CBS News.

    Giovanni Arcudi, a forensics expert and professor at Rome's Tor Vergata University, will lead the team tasked with exhuming the skeletons and then, bone by bone, examining them to assess the years of death, age, sex and stature -- all to verify who they belong to.

    Arcudi's team will also take samples for DNA testing, which will take place later.

    In a statement issued by the Vatican, Arcudi said it could take five hours to open the two tombs and remove the remains, barring unforeseen circumstances.

    "The state of conservation of the bones is what will determine how much time is needed," he said. "Obviously that is not predictable before the tombs are opened."

    But he said he'd know fairly quickly whether the tombs contained the bones of anyone other than the two German princesses.

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    https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/11/europ...ntl/index.html

    After 36 years of looking for his missing sister, Pietro Orlandi had hoped to finally get an answer on Thursday when the Vatican exhumed two tombs nestled in the shadow of Saint Peter's Basilica.
    Instead, it took just a few hours for his hopes to be dashed.

    The tombs were empty. There were no human remains, no funeral urns, and certainly no clue as to how his 15-year-old sister Emanuela Orlandi disappeared on her way home from a music lesson one summer's evening in 1983.

    The operation to open the tombs in the Teutonic Cemetery involved over a dozen Vatican workers, and came after an anonymous tip-off to the family to "look where the angel is pointing" -- apparently referring to an angel sculpture in the small graveyard that is reserved for German-speaking Catholic burials.

    The first tomb -- which belonged to Princess Sophie Von Hohenlohe -- was "completely empty," according to Vatican spokesman Alessandro Gisotti.
    Likewise, the second tomb -- of Princess Carlotta Federica di Mecklemburgo -- was also opened and "no human remains were found," Gisotti added.

    Relatives of the two princesses have been informed of the result of the search, Gisotti said.

    'I could have expected everything -- except empty graves'

    The empty graves only deepen the mystery surrounding missing teenager Emanuela, who was the daughter of a prominent Vatican employee and lived inside the holy city's walls with her family.

    "I could have expected everything -- except empty graves," her brother Pietro told CNN at the exhumation site.
    Under the tomb belonging to Von Hohenlohe, workers found a chamber measuring 4 x 3.7 meters. But according to the Orlandi family's forensic expert, Giorgio Portera, the structure of the chamber was made with cement, which is "not compatible with a 19th-century grave."

    "It appears strange to me that there are no documents that tells us why there graves are empty," he told CNN.

    Shortly after the exhumations, the Vatican said that a further investigation is now underway into documents to "verify structural works that took place in the Teutonic Cemetery at the beginning of the 1800s, and also during the 1960s and 1970s."

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    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/v...-1983-n1029521

    The mystery of the 1983 disappearance of the 15-year-old daughter of a Vatican employee took yet another twist Saturday following excavations this week at a Vatican City cemetery: The Vatican said it had discovered two sets of bones under a stone manhole that will be formally opened next week.

    The Vatican on Thursday had pried open the tombs of two 19th-century German princesses in the cemetery of the Pontifical Teutonic College in hopes of finding the remains of Emanuela Orlandi, after her family received a tip she might be buried there.

    Those hopes were dashed when the tombs turned out to be completely empty, creating yet another mystery about where the dead princesses were.

    The Vatican noted at the time that structural work had been carried out on both the college building and cemetery near St. Peter’s Basilica in the 1800s and more recently, and that further investigation would be done.
    On Saturday, Vatican spokesman Alessandro Gisotti said those investigations had centered on the areas adjoining the tombs and had “identified two ossuaries, located under the pavement of an area inside the Pontifical Teutonic College, covered by a manhole.”

    He said the area was immediately sealed off and would be opened in the presence of forensic experts July 20.

    Gisotti added that the bones were located in two holes carved out of a large stone that was covered by an old pavement stone a few meters (yards) behind the princesses’ tomb. That area is now technically part of the building of the Teutonic College, after expansion work on the building encroached onto the cemetery field.

    The last recorded structural work done on the Teutonic College and cemetery was in the 1960s and 1970s. Orlandi disappeared in 1983.

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    If you needed to hide a body, I guess this place would be a pretty good choice

    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/07/21/e...cli/index.html



    Thousands of bones discovered in Vatican crypt in search for missing teenager
    By Valentina DiDonato and Matthew Robinson, CNN

    Updated 1412 GMT (2212 HKT) July 21, 2019



    Possible lead in search for missing Vatican teen



    Rome (CNN)Thousands of bones have been unearthed in two ossuaries discovered in the Vatican City, as part of an ongoing search for clues into the disappearance of a 15-year-old girl more than three decades ago.

    Emanuela Orlandi, who was the daughter of a prominent Vatican employee and lived within the walls of the holy city, disappeared in the summer of 1983 while on her way home from a music lesson in central Rome.


    Emanuela Orlandi


    The mystery surrounding Orlandi's disappearance gripped Italians for more than three decades, and inspired conspiracy theories involving everyone from mobsters to international terrorists, and the highest echelons of the Vatican.

    Interest in the case was renewed in summer last year, when the Orlandi family received an anonymous tip, hinting that Emanuela's remains may be located in the tombs of Princess Sophie von Hohenlohe and Princess Charlotte Federica of Mecklenburg at the Teutonic Cemetery.


    Thousands of bones were found in two ossauries discovered at the Teutonic Cemetery in Vatican City.

    The family had received an image of a sculpture and an instruction to "look where the angel is pointing." This led them to the Teutonic Cemetery, which is located adjacent to the grand Saint Peter's Basilica and is typically reserved for the burials of German-speaking Catholics.
    After the Vatican agreed for forensic investigators to open the tombs on July 11, no human remains nor traces of coffins were found. The Vatican indicated that the remains of the princesses may have been removed during renovation work on the cemetery and surrounding buildings in the 1960s and 70s.

    Nevertheless, two ossuaries -- chambers in which bones of the dead are stored -- were uncovered during their investigations beneath the floor of an area inside the Teutonic College.

    Investigators subsequently discovered "thousands of bones" in the chambers, which are believed to correspond to "dozens of people," according to Giorgio Portera, a geneticist appointed by the Orlandi family.


    Pope John Paul II with Emanuela Oralndi (pink jumper, center), and (from right) her brother Pietro, father Ercole, and mother Maria.

    DNA analysis will now take place on each set of remains, but Vatican spokesman Alessandro Gisotti said the precise data will have to await "morphological evaluations next Saturday."

    "It must be considered that many of the bones being dated are shattered and therefore this increases the number present, many of which are small," Gisotti told CNN. "This means that there may be more fragments of the same bone structure."

    While the origins of the bones remain unknown, Emanuela's brother, Pietro Orlandi, 60, said the investigation into the ossuaries had been "a great satisfaction."

    "In the ossuaries, there shouldn't be any recent bones, so if there are, even if it's not Emanuela Orlandi, it will be a problem for the Vatican," he told CNN. "There are hundreds, thousands of bones and now the Vatican is classifying them by age and will investigate the more recent ones.


    Pietro Orlandi says that the investigation into the ossuaries has been a "great satisfaction."

    "To think if she was buried in the ossuary all these years, just 200 meters from our house, it would be devastating."

    He added that it is important for an independent expert to investigate the bones to ensure the objectivity of the results.

    "The Vatican doesn't want this out and doesn't want to be seen in this way, but finally I feel like they have taken a step back and we have moved a step forward," he said.

    The Vatican responded in a statement, according to Reuters, saying that it is "once again showing its openness towards the Orlandi family" in agreeing for investigations to take place in the Teutonic Cemetery, even when only based on an "anonymous report."

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