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Thread: Two black men were arrested waiting at a Starbucks. Now the company, police are on the defensive.

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    Two black men were arrested waiting at a Starbucks. Now the company, police are on the defensive.

    https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/14/us/ph...sts/index.html

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.5a14a81da501

    Damning though.

    Starbucks, which once asked baristas to start a conversation about race with customers, faces fierce criticism after two black men were arrested at a Philadelphia store, sparking accusations of racial profiling over what the company?s chief executive now calls a ?reprehensible? incident.

    In a statement, CEO Kevin Johnson offered ?our deepest apologies? on Saturday to the two men who were taken out of the store in handcuffs by at least six officers on Thursday. A store manager had asked the two men to leave after they attempted to use the bathroom but had not made any purchases, police said. The men said they were waiting for a friend, their attorney later said. The manager then called 911 for assistance, the company said.

    The police confrontation was captured on a video that has been viewed more than 8 million times on social media, fueling a backlash and drawing responses from the city?s police commissioner and mayor.

    ?I am heartbroken to see Philadelphia in the headlines for an incident that ? at least based on what we know at this point ? appears to exemplify what racial discrimination looks like in 2018,? Mayor Jim Kenney, a Democrat, said.


    The two men were taken to a police station, where they were fingerprinted and photographed, their attorney Lauren Wimmer told The Washington Post on Saturday. Her clients, who declined to be identified, were released eight hours later because the district attorney found no evidence of a crime, she said, adding the Starbucks manager was white.




    Wimmer said the man whom the two men were there to meet, Andrew Yaffe, runs a real estate development firm and said Yaffe wanted to meet the men to discuss business investment opportunities.

    Multiple witnesses recorded the incident on cellphones. In one video, Yaffe arrives to tell police the two men were waiting for him.

    ?Why would they be asked to leave?? Yaffe says. ?Does anybody else think this is ridiculous?? he asks people nearby. ?It?s absolute discrimination.? A woman chimes in off-camera: ?They didn?t do anything.?

    The two men appear to explain they are there to meet Yaffe. They remain seated and calmly speak with the authorities. An officer begins to clear chairs out of the way in apparent anticipation of an arrest. Yaffe suggests they will go somewhere else.


    ?They?re not free to leave. We?re done with that,? an officer replies. ?We asked them to leave the first time.? The two men stand up to be cuffed. They do not appear to resist.

    Melissa DePino, who recorded the viral video of the incident, told Philadelphia magazine the men did not escalate the situation. ?These guys never raised their voices. They never did anything remotely aggressive,? she said. In the video, there appear to be open tables for any potential waiting customers.

    Thursday?s incident is a dramatic turn for a company that has positioned itself as a progressive corporate leader that touts ?diversity and inclusion? ? efforts that have also drawn its share of criticism. Last year, the company vowed to hire 10,000 refugees in a move that drew calls for a boycott mostly from conservatives. In 2015, its ?Race Together? initiative for baristas to discuss racial issues floundered after the company found the public wanted fast coffee ? not deep conversations about police killings of unarmed black men.

    Now Starbucks has been forced to bring race back into public discussion outside its own terms, following a moment that has drawn comparisons to nonviolent protests during the civil rights movement when black Americans? refusals to leave segregated lunch counters were met with police force.


    Local Black Lives Matter activist Asa Khalif organized a protest of the store on Sunday. He told a Philly.com reporter he rejects Johnson?s apology, saying it was ?about saving face.? If the company was serious, it would have fired the manager who called 911, he said.




    Johnson vowed an investigation and a review of its customer-relations protocols, and he said he wanted to meet the two men for a face-to-face apology.

    ?Regretfully, our practices and training led to a bad outcome ? the basis for the call to the Philadelphia police department was wrong,? Johnson said.


    Our store manager never intended for these men to be arrested and this should never have escalated as it did.?

    Mayor Kenney directed the Philadelphia Commission on Human Relations to review Starbucks policies and determine whether the company would benefit from training for implicit bias ? unconscious discrimination based on race. His office will communicate with Starbucks further to discuss, he said.

    Kenney said little about the response of his police force beyond mentioning an ongoing review from Police Commissioner Richard Ross. Police have also been criticized for how they handled the situation. The department did not return comment Saturday asking what laws they suspected were being violated and if any administrative actions have been taken during the investigation.



    Ross, who is black, defended the actions of the officers in a Facebook Live video on Saturday, saying the officers asked the men three times to leave.




    ?The police did not just happen upon this event ? they did not just walk into Starbucks to get a coffee,? he said. ?They were called there, for a service, and that service had to do with quelling a disturbance, a disturbance that had to do with trespassing. These officers did absolutely nothing wrong.?

    Ross said he is aware of implicit bias and his force provides training, but he did not say whether he believed it applied in this case. He added police recruits are sent to the National Museum of African American History and Culture and the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington to learn more about the struggle of blacks and minorities throughout history.

    ?We want them to know about the atrocities that were, in fact, committed by policing around the world,? Ross said.

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    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...rbucks-n866141

    Update

    https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news...479809353.html


    One man led a call and response chant: "Today, this space is secure," he said, "secured by the people."

    Some demonstrators carried signs that read "Too Little Too Latte" and "#Enough Shame On Your Starbucks." Outside, an organizer told those crowded around that "we will not tolerate racial bias anymore."

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    Sunday's action stemmed from a video posted on social media showing two black men, who claimed to have been waiting for a friend, being handcuffed and escorted out of the coffee shop on Thursday.

    By Saturday, Starbucks CEO Kevin Johnson said he wanted to apologize personally to the two men. Johnson posted a lengthy statement on the company's website, calling the situation "disheartening" and "reprehensible."

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    "We would love to meet those two men and personally apologize," Camille Hymes, the Starbucks regional manager, told NBC10. "We take full responsibility."

    Protesters demanded that the store manager who called police on the two men be fired. Hymes, who met with the protesters at the Starbucks Sunday, did not offer to meet that demand.

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    "We take full responsibility and....we put [the manager] in a position that did not allow her to be set up for success or those two men," Hymes said.

    It was not the answer the demonstrators were looking for.

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    "We want her out and once she's fired, then we may have a conversation," said Black Lives Matter Pennsylvania activist Asa Khalif, who attended Sunday's protest.

    Hymes said the company still had work to do.

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    "This incident does not reflect the spirit of our brand," Hymes said. "It was an unfortunate incident and we'll be sure to make it right."

    Authorities were called to the Starbucks Thursday afternoon when the two men allegedly remained in the store after a manager told them they had to order something, according to witnesses. Philadelphia Police commissioner Richard Ross said they received a 911 call from the Starbucks reporting a disturbance and trespassing(Listen to the full dispatch HERE).

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    The employees told police the men came into the store, sat down and then used the bathroom, according to Ross.

    "Starbucks said that according to their company policy, they do not allow non-paying...people of the public to come in and use the restroom," Ross said. "So they then asked these two males to leave. These two males refused to leave and the police were called."

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    Michelle Saahene told NBC10 she was inside the store when responding officers spoke to the two men.

    "The two young men politely asked why they were being asked to leave and were not given a reason other than that they hadn’t bought something," she said.

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    What do you care? Boston Babe 73's Avatar
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    I saw this video. What a disgrace. It only goes to show that POC are under constant racist judgment. I cannot imagine having to live that way.
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    Senior Member Non_Saepe's Avatar
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    I dunno about this one. If the policy is no loitering, why is it outlandish to be asked to buy something? I wouldn't hang out in Starbucks without buying something and if someone asked me to meet them there, I would arrive with money to buy coffee (since, you know, it's a coffee shop) or I'd wait outside. Why is that so hard to understand?

    Maybe the manager overreacted by calling 911, but if I told two dudes that the store policy was no loitering and they refused to buy anything, I'd be nervous. Not because they are black but because they are being defiant. Am I wrong?

    I feel this is just another instance of people turning a personal offense into a protest movement. Feel free to tear me apart.

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    What do you care? Boston Babe 73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Non_Saepe View Post
    I dunno about this one. If the policy is no loitering, why is it outlandish to be asked to buy something? I wouldn't hang out in Starbucks without buying something and if someone asked me to meet them there, I would arrive with money to buy coffee (since, you know, it's a coffee shop) or I'd wait outside. Why is that so hard to understand?

    Maybe the manager overreacted by calling 911, but if I told two dudes that the store policy was no loitering and they refused to buy anything, I'd be nervous. Not because they are black but because they are being defiant. Am I wrong?

    I feel this is just another instance of people turning a personal offense into a protest movement. Feel free to tear me apart.
    They were waiting for someone. If it were two White Business Men, they would have never called the police much less been cuffed and detained for 8 hours. Also, LOL at "no loitering" in Starbucks. A place that was literally designed to hang out in all day.
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    Senior Member Non_Saepe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Babe 73 View Post
    They were waiting for someone. If it were two White Business Men, they would have never called the police much less been cuffed and detained for 8 hours. Also, LOL at "no loitering" in Starbucks. A place that was literally designed to hang out in all day.
    I stand by my statement. Maybe you are comfortable loitering at a business without making a purchase but I'm not. And if someone asks you to buy something or leave, what do you have to gain by saying no? EVEN if you were waiting for someone and EVEN if you were "two white business men", that doesn't make you above policy.

    I'm not saying the 'punishment' fit the crime (I don't know) but geez, the service industry is there to serve. Buy something or get out if that's what asked of you. Refusing to comply is a defiant act and that's why the manager called police. Not because they were black. It's fucking Philadelphia, not Connecticut (or wherever white people congregate).

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    Senior Member Queena's Avatar
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    Ive been in Starbucks and have seen people of all races wait for people before ordering coffee. I think that they explained that. If I go to Olive Garden, I can wait in the lobby for the rest of my party before being seated and ordering. I've been to Starbucks and have waited for people to show up. I didn't get arrested. I know people who have worked as district managers for Starbucks, and they say that this is not the policy of Starbucks. They say that Starbucks doesn't have a no loitering policy, because they are a coffee shop. They have people who will sit there all day and use free internet, and not even buy coffee. So go on with the apologies. This manager was wrong. I'll say that at their racist, at the least bias. I'm willing to bet racist. They should be fired, but they shouldn't worry. The police force is always willing to hire their type.

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    Senior Member Non_Saepe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Queena View Post
    Ive been in Starbucks and have seen people of all races wait for people before ordering coffee. I think that they explained that. If I go to Olive Garden, I can wait in the lobby for the rest of my party before being seated and ordering. I've been to Starbucks and have waited for people to show up. I didn't get arrested. I know people who have worked as district managers for Starbucks, and they say that this is not the policy of Starbucks. They say that Starbucks doesn't have a no loitering policy, because they are a coffee shop. They have people who will sit there all day and use free internet, and not even buy coffee. So go on with the apologies. This manager was wrong. I'll say that at their racist, at the least bias. I'm willing to bet racist. They should be fired, but they shouldn't worry. The police force is always willing to hire their type.
    The police commissioner is a black man and even he said that the officers didn't do anything wrong.

    Let us say that Starbucks doesn't have a 'No Loitering' policy. Instead, let's say that the manager was wary of two young fellas sitting around not ordering anything and asked them to order or leave (we don't know because we are only showed the arrest on video, not the before or after altercation) and they resisted. Maybe the manager asked a few times and they refused to 'order or leave'. If people assume the police were called simply because they were black, then the police show up and ask the young men to leave (because that is what was asked by the Starbucks manager), do people really think that the police would have left without arresting the defiant fellas JUST BECAUSE THEY WERE WHITE? I don't get it.

    "Young men, Starbucks asked you to leave."
    "But, we are white."
    "Oh, sorry, be on your way then."

    Was it ever proven that the dudes said, "Is it okay if we sit and wait for our friend? We will order coffee when he gets here."? It almost sounds like a social experiment

    "Have two young black men enter a Starbucks and refuse to order anything. Then have them proclaim they are waiting for a WHITE friend who shows up conveniently as they are being arrested. Have said young men dress in sloppy sweat pants and the 'white friend' dress in business attire and see how public reacts."

    I dunno guys. Seems like a non issue if you have worked in the service industry. Please, correct me where I am wrong.
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    Senior Member Non_Saepe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Queena View Post
    Ive been in Starbucks and have seen people of all races wait for people before ordering coffee. I think that they explained that. If I go to Olive Garden, I can wait in the lobby for the rest of my party before being seated and ordering. I've been to Starbucks and have waited for people to show up. I didn't get arrested. I know people who have worked as district managers for Starbucks, and they say that this is not the policy of Starbucks. They say that Starbucks doesn't have a no loitering policy, because they are a coffee shop. They have people who will sit there all day and use free internet, and not even buy coffee. So go on with the apologies. This manager was wrong. I'll say that at their racist, at the least bias. I'm willing to bet racist. They should be fired, but they shouldn't worry. The police force is always willing to hire their type.
    Just as a 'by the by'...do you ever go into Olive Garden to wait for a table and not tell them you are waiting on a table? And if they ask you what you are doing, do you ask to use the restroom and refuse to leave? I'm sure I sound like a cunt but I'm really just asking a question.
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    I just tried the chocolate covered banana frappucino. It was good!
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    Senior Member Non_Saepe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisedbywolves View Post
    http://money.cnn.com/2018/04/16/news...ogy/index.html

    Looks like the CEO thought the arrests were wrong. The manager is also gone. Whether he was fired, or left on his on, I don't know.
    The manager was a woman and I'm sure she left her job because she was confronted with this media frenzy that had something to prove and she didn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Non_Saepe View Post
    The manager was a woman and I'm sure she left her job because she was confronted with this media frenzy that had something to prove and she didn't.
    Maybe, maybe not. She could have just as easily been fired. I really don't know. The company doesn't appear to be backing her actions, and at the very least she is getting some re-training not to behave as she did.

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    Quote Originally Posted by raisedbywolves View Post
    Maybe, maybe not. She could have just as easily been fired. I really don't know. The company doesn't appear to be backing her actions, and at the very least she is getting some re-training not to behave as she did.
    I can't pretend to know either. I will say, however, that Starbucks' statements just seem like genetic PR spin. I still feel like the manager just did her job. I hate to be THAT person but if these dudes were white, would we even know about this 'incident'? If you've worked in the service industry at all, you've heard this story a thousand times of people getting thrown out for being defiant. People suck, no matter their race.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Non_Saepe View Post
    I can't pretend to know either. I will say, however, that Starbucks' statements just seem like genetic PR spin. I still feel like the manager just did her job. I hate to be THAT person but if these dudes were white, would we even know about this 'incident'? If you've worked in the service industry at all, you've heard this story a thousand times of people getting thrown out for being defiant. People suck, no matter their race.
    Genetic...I meant Generic. I think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Non_Saepe View Post
    Genetic...I meant Generic. I think.
    Geriatric?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Non_Saepe View Post
    The police commissioner is a black man and even he said that the officers didn't do anything wrong.

    Let us say that Starbucks doesn't have a 'No Loitering' policy. Instead, let's say that the manager was wary of two young fellas sitting around not ordering anything and asked them to order or leave (we don't know because we are only showed the arrest on video, not the before or after altercation) and they resisted. Maybe the manager asked a few times and they refused to 'order or leave'. If people assume the police were called simply because they were black, then the police show up and ask the young men to leave (because that is what was asked by the Starbucks manager), do people really think that the police would have left without arresting the defiant fellas JUST BECAUSE THEY WERE WHITE? I don't get it.

    "Young men, Starbucks asked you to leave."
    "But, we are white."
    "Oh, sorry, be on your way then."

    Was it ever proven that the dudes said, "Is it okay if we sit and wait for our friend? We will order coffee when he gets here."? It almost sounds like a social experiment
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    Certified Grumple Bottoms Ron_NYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisedbywolves View Post
    So it sounds like it was a "quit or be fired" situation, and the manager quit.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/comp...id=mailsignout
    Always work at Fox news. Hell, now she can check the Trump administration before everyone is in prison.
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    Senior Member Non_Saepe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron_NYC View Post
    Sincerely curious Ron, how did they do what they were "supposed to do" when they were asked to leave 3 times (by the police at the point in the video, not counting what took place before) and said no?

    I don't think anyone deserves to be "shackled and caged" for a 'crime' of this caliber, I just do not see the connection that people are drawing to it being a race issue and not a rude/defiant customer issue. People sat in a coffee shop. They were asked to leave if they weren't going to buy anything. They refused. Multiple times. What am I missing?

    I'm open to having my mind changed. So far, I really think this is a situation that is blown out of proportion. I could relay stories of me trying to kick people out of establishments in the service industry that never made the news. I find it common place and not a situation that deserves a movement. Am I wrong? Has no one worked in the service industry?

    Also, just curious, what/who is that post you quoted from, Ron?
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    Senior Member Non_Saepe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron_NYC View Post
    Really? I thought it was a legitimate question. I do not understand.
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisedbywolves View Post
    So it sounds like it was a "quit or be fired" situation, and the manager quit.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/comp...id=mailsignout
    Honestly, I would quit too. There was a hoard of protesters on the street in front of the store. The opposition said they wouldn't even have a conversation about the incident unless the manager was fired. A manager job at Starbucks isn't worth all that.
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    Senior Member Queena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Non_Saepe View Post
    The police commissioner is a black man and even he said that the officers didn't do anything wrong.

    Let us say that Starbucks doesn't have a 'No Loitering' policy. Instead, let's say that the manager was wary of two young fellas sitting around not ordering anything and asked them to order or leave (we don't know because we are only showed the arrest on video, not the before or after altercation) and they resisted. Maybe the manager asked a few times and they refused to 'order or leave'. If people assume the police were called simply because they were black, then the police show up and ask the young men to leave (because that is what was asked by the Starbucks manager), do people really think that the police would have left without arresting the defiant fellas JUST BECAUSE THEY WERE WHITE? I don't get it.

    "Young men, Starbucks asked you to leave."
    "But, we are white."
    "Oh, sorry, be on your way then."

    Was it ever proven that the dudes said, "Is it okay if we sit and wait for our friend? We will order coffee when he gets here."? It almost sounds like a social experiment

    "Have two young black men enter a Starbucks and refuse to order anything. Then have them proclaim they are waiting for a WHITE friend who shows up conveniently as they are being arrested. Have said young men dress in sloppy sweat pants and the 'white friend' dress in business attire and see how public reacts."

    I dunno guys. Seems like a non issue if you have worked in the service industry. Please, correct me where I am wrong.
    I don't care if the police commish was green, black people can be racist.
    1. They followed orders. They explained that they were meeting someone. They even offered to leave. The police chose to arrest them. In fact, the person that they were meeting showed up while they were being arrested and asked if they could just leave and the police refused to let them just leave.
    2. The manager is a bitch. Someone was there asking her about the incident in this article (https://thegrio.com/2018/04/16/phila...-of-the-story/) and even then a Black girl was being questioned, while non Blacks weren't. Yes, I understand loitering laws. I've lived in cities. You can tell the difference between someone who is loitering and someone who is waiting for a party and intending to become a customer. Most people who loiter are usually homeless. All black people want is to be treated fairly. If you're going to enforce loitering laws, enforce them against everyone, not just black men. I guess that some white people had to be there to understand.

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    Senior Member Queena's Avatar
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    It's a fucking shame that in 2018 I'm repeating a slave line asking for my people to be treated fairly. We are regressing as a world. ��������

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    Quote Originally Posted by Queena View Post
    I don't care if the police commish was green, black people can be racist.



    Quote Originally Posted by Queena View Post
    1. They followed orders. They explained that they were meeting someone. They even offered to leave. The police chose to arrest them. In fact, the person that they were meeting showed up while they were being arrested and asked if they could just leave and the police refused to let them just leave.
    2. The manager is a bitch. Someone was there asking her about the incident in this article (https://thegrio.com/2018/04/16/phila...-of-the-story/) and even then a Black girl was being questioned, while non Blacks weren't. Yes, I understand loitering laws. I've lived in cities. You can tell the difference between someone who is loitering and someone who is waiting for a party and intending to become a customer. Most people who loiter are usually homeless. All black people want is to be treated fairly. If you're going to enforce loitering laws, enforce them against everyone, not just black men. I guess that some white people had to be there to understand.
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    Ron was the best part, hands down.

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    What do you care? Boston Babe 73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Queena View Post
    It's a fucking shame that in 2018 I'm repeating a slave line asking for my people to be treated fairly. We are regressing as a world. ��������
    Only with some people. Although ONE person is too many. We're trying to change that. You guys have so much more patience than I have
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