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Thread: Liberty German (13) and Abigail Williams (13) were murdered and an investigation is ongoing

  1. #101
    Certified Grumple Bottoms Ron_NYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blighted star View Post
    This is only tangentially related to this case, I'm just kind of horrified by it & hoping I've got this wrong ...

    So, the night the girls were missing, there was an Amber Alert for another teen in Gary, Indiana. Next day a lot of people mistakenly thought it must've been for Liberty & Abigail & when their bodies were found tuesday, there were quite a few people demanding to know why the girl in Gary (who was later found safe) got an Amber Alert while these girls didn't.

    I just assumed it was another bunch of people who failed to understand Amber Alert criteria ie Liberty & Abigail just didn't qualify, so I didn't pay much attention.

    I also assumed the girl in Gary did qualify. Her mother had been murdered so I figured there was a known abductor/vehicle description.

    Except there wasn't.

    http://www.indystar.com/story/news/c...lert/97911040/



    Apparently this girl turned up "hysterical" with her younger sister at an aunt's house. She ran off when police arrived. There was no abduction suspected, no nothing.

    After the Amber Alert was issued & she was "found safe", police charged her with her mother's murder

    http://www.indystar.com/story/news/c...eath/98028634/

    So did Gary Police just undermine trust in Amber Alerts so they could track down a juvenile suspect faster?


    Cos that's pretty fucked up if they did
    Holy. Shit.
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    Ron was the best part, hands down.

  2. #102
    Senior Member TupeloHoney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blighted star View Post
    This is only tangentially related to this case, I'm just kind of horrified by it & hoping I've got this wrong ...

    So, the night the girls were missing, there was an Amber Alert for another teen in Gary, Indiana. Next day a lot of people mistakenly thought it must've been for Liberty & Abigail & when their bodies were found tuesday, there were quite a few people demanding to know why the girl in Gary (who was later found safe) got an Amber Alert while these girls didn't.

    I just assumed it was another bunch of people who failed to understand Amber Alert criteria ie Liberty & Abigail just didn't qualify, so I didn't pay much attention.

    I also assumed the girl in Gary did qualify. Her mother had been murdered so I figured there was a known abductor/vehicle description.

    Except there wasn't.

    http://www.indystar.com/story/news/c...lert/97911040/



    Apparently this girl turned up "hysterical" with her younger sister at an aunt's house. She ran off when police arrived. There was no abduction suspected, no nothing.

    After the Amber Alert was issued & she was "found safe", police charged her with her mother's murder

    http://www.indystar.com/story/news/c...eath/98028634/

    So did Gary Police just undermine trust in Amber Alerts so they could track down a juvenile suspect faster?


    Cos that's pretty fucked up if they did


    "Risk of serious bodily injury or death" is one of the recommended criteria, so because her mother was found murdered, it stands to reason they thought the murderer might have taken the girl and that she was potentially in extreme danger.

    When Liberty and Abigail disappeared, they had no info as to whether they had run away or were in danger, etc.

    https://www.amberalert.gov/guidelines.htm
    Quote Originally Posted by Not your business View Post
    I will out think the fucking pants off of you and you would thank me for helping you out of them.

  3. #103
    The information that the families gave to the police about the 2 girls missing, didn't contain any reason/suspicion that something malicious had happened to them. They merely thought that they had gotten lost. Often people went off the trails to explore and I imagine that's what they assumed as well. It want until hours later after nothing had turned up, that they realized the girls weren't "just" lost.

    Side note, I remember getting the amber alert for the Gary girl. The only information (or lack thereof) released with the amber alert at the time was that she was in extreme danger but no specifics were included. The public was finally informed of more of the story after the fact.

  4. #104
    [QUOTE=LuxInTenebrisLucet;3722749]The information that the families gave to the police about the 2 girls missing, didn't contain any reason/suspicion that something malicious had happened to them. They merely thought that they had gotten lost. Often people went off the trails to explore and I imagine that's what they assumed as well. It want until hours later after nothing had turned up, that they realized the girls weren't "just" lost.

    Side note, I remember getting the amber alert for the Gary girl. The only information (or lack thereof) released with the amber alert at the time was that she was in extreme danger but no specifics were included. The public was finally informed of more of the story about why she was given the amber alert status.

    In my opinion, I feel that as soon as a child is deemed missing, an amber alert should be declared regardless of whether they are considered to be in danger or not. If a kid is missing, they're in danger. I realize that can be a slippery slope but thsee 2 cases are a perfect example of that. (Again, in my little humble opinion lol)

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by wondery View Post
    I have some information that fell on my lap regarding a suspect in this case.

    I don't want to add to the hysteria or finger pointing so I am going to keep my suspect card in the envelope marked confidential or solution cards like the board game Clue.


    In the meantime, I will put some details here to see if the info I received was correct or is helpful in some way.

    The suspect in my envelope seems to be someone who the police are looking for so this info would be only news to the public.

    I'm going to call him Colonel Cap Guy (CCG) because in every photo I've seen, he has a cap on and Colonel Mustard is the only character I recall from Clue.

    Colonel Cap Guy apparently:

    • has a relative who both resides and does business on the 11000 block of Bicycle Bridge Road in Delphi, IN
    • was in jail for Battery (second time!) and released from jail in November, 2016
    • got married shortly after (November 2016) to someone who he had been in a relationship for a couple of years and she stayed with him while he was in jail.
    • has split from wife approximately mid to late January 2017. She left him.
    • posts about his "beautiful wife" on FB and hopes she will come back to him.
    • has similarities to the photo State police distributed



    Possible event that upset Colonel Cap Guy

    On Sunday, February 12, 2017, (a day before homicide) wife posted a photo of another man on her Facebook stating: "My baby, I love you so much, you came back into my life at the right time. Just to make it clear and I don't care what anyone says I'm not leaving or letting go this time, he is what makes me happy.

    On February 14, 2017, Colonel Cap Guy posted a loving pic of him and wife. Someone commented, "Did she come back" CCG commented, "No, not yet."

    Wife of Colonel Cap Guy has at least 7 Facebook profiles

    Colonel Cap Guy has 2 Facebook profiles

    If anyone thinks I should be sharing his photos, Facebook, and the documents that led to this info, let me know.

    We'll see!
    Any updates?

  6. #106
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    [QUOTE=LuxInTenebrisLucet;3722750]
    Quote Originally Posted by LuxInTenebrisLucet View Post
    The information that the families gave to the police about the 2 girls missing, didn't contain any reason/suspicion that something malicious had happened to them. They merely thought that they had gotten lost. Often people went off the trails to explore and I imagine that's what they assumed as well. It want until hours later after nothing had turned up, that they realized the girls weren't "just" lost.

    Side note, I remember getting the amber alert for the Gary girl. The only information (or lack thereof) released with the amber alert at the time was that she was in extreme danger but no specifics were included. The public was finally informed of more of the story about why she was given the amber alert status.

    In my opinion, I feel that as soon as a child is deemed missing, an amber alert should be declared regardless of whether they are considered to be in danger or not. If a kid is missing, they're in danger. I realize that can be a slippery slope but thsee 2 cases are a perfect example of that. (Again, in my little humble opinion lol)
    My father is a retired missing person detective. The vast amount of juveniles in this age range, which is alot, are found at a friends or just hiding out as a runaway. If we issued amber alerts for all of these cases our phones would be blowing up every second and the cases that have confirmed or witnessed abduction/urgency would blend in.
    I think using the amber alert system to catch the other juvenile is unacceptable because the police most likely knew of her guilt or her being a suspect when they issued it. Yet maybe they were worried about self harm.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by TupeloHoney View Post
    "Risk of serious bodily injury or death" is one of the recommended criteria, so because her mother was found murdered, it stands to reason they thought the murderer might have taken the girl and that she was potentially in extreme danger.

    When Liberty and Abigail disappeared, they had no info as to whether they had run away or were in danger, etc.

    https://www.amberalert.gov/guidelines.htm
    Aaaaand just heard that she killed her mom...now I get what you were talking about. Doh! *face palm* my bad.

  8. #108
    [QUOTE=Tamra Lee Bady;3722755]
    Quote Originally Posted by LuxInTenebrisLucet View Post



    My father is a retired missing person detective. The vast amount of juveniles in this age range, which is alot, are found at a friends or just hiding out as a runaway. If we issued amber alerts for all of these cases our phones would be blowing up every second and the cases that have confirmed or witnessed abduction/urgency would blend in.
    I think using the amber alert system to catch the other juvenile is unacceptable because the police most likely knew of her guilt or her being a suspect when they issued it. Yet maybe they were worried about self harm.
    Yeah, that's what I meant by slippery slope. In your opinion, do you feel that the current amber alert criteria be amended to in any way? (And that's not a loaded question, BTW. Im genuinely interested given your father's past occupation.)

    And yeeeaahh...just heard about the Gary girl. Im sick and have been sleeping a crap ton, so I haven't been tuned in :/

  9. #109
    Senior Member blighted star's Avatar
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    For the record, I am NOT questioning the lack of Amber Alert for Libby & Abby at all. I know they didn't qualify. I only mentioned it to explain the vague connection to this thread.

    The Amber Alert issued in Gary however is dodgy as fuck & NO-ONE should be defending it.

    They KNEW she ran away voluntarily. If they thought she was at risk of self harm it should've been a Silver Alert.

    The Amber Alert requirements in Indiana aren't "abducted OR at risk of serious bodily harm", it's abducted AND at risk of serious bodily harm"

    http://www.in.gov/amberalert/2337.htm

    They knew of no abduction, they had to imagine the possibility of one & lie about it to issue that Amber Alert. That's why people in Delphi were so pissed off - they know Gary Police straight out LIED to get an Amber Alert issued & they wanted to know why their girls weren't considered important enough for police to lie for them too (& yeah, I know, even if Delphi Police had been willing to subvert the Amber Alert system like Gary Police did, it wouldn't have helped their girls anyway).

    The Gary Amber Alert was dangerous bullshit & those officers should be fucking ashamed of themselves.

    How the fuck is anyone who realises what they did supposed to trust that the next Amber Alert they see for a teen isn't just another police scam to get the public to hand over juvenile suspects faster?

    They deliberately misused & undermined a trusted child protection system & that should concern EVERYONE.

    Edit & Tamra I worked with street kids for years & 100% agree with the first part of your post (& the second for that matter).

    The Amber Alert guidelines don't need changing, they're strict for a reason. What they probably need though is serious enforceable penalties for their deliberate misuse by police officers who think rules apply to everyone but them.
    Last edited by blighted star; 02-18-2017 at 05:01 PM.

  10. #110
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    Curious also.

  11. #111
    Senior Member bermstalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuxInTenebrisLucet View Post
    Any updates?
    That's considered wondery's mic drop when she left the room.

    She's probably got about 1000+ people refreshing this thread all the time to see if she updates. (I've already seen her post reposted in a few places)


    I've seen that the girl's obits have different dates of death listed.

    Liberty "Libby" German
    14, of Delphi, went to be with the Lord on February 13, 2017. - See more at: http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/jco....DpRTUofr.dpuf
    Abigail J. "Abby" Williams
    13, of Delphi, died Tuesday, Feb. 14, 2017. - See more at: http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/jco....746W4fpG.dpuf

  12. #112
    Administrator Olivia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bermstalker View Post
    That's considered wondery's mic drop when she left the room.

    She's probably got about 1000+ people refreshing this thread all the time to see if she updates. (I've already seen her post reposted in a few places)


    I've seen that the girl's obits have different dates of death listed.
    There's been discussion about that on the fb group. I think it's as simple as Libby's family using the missing date as her death date, and Abigail's using the found date.

  13. #113
    Senior Member wondery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bermstalker View Post
    That's considered wondery's mic drop when she left the room.

    She's probably got about 1000+ people refreshing this thread all the time to see if she updates. (I've already seen her post reposted in a few places)
    Hahaha - I need to post a pic of a mic drop here.

    No updates. I also have not looked into much including looking to see if Colonel happens to be locked up. I can say, he hasn't updated FB since Feb 14.

  14. #114
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    I just read on fb that the man in the phone has officially been named a person of interest

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    Senior Member wondery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jp1129 View Post
    I just read on fb that the man in the phone has officially been named a person of interest
    Not just POI - suspect!

    Man seen in photo on trail in Delphi is now a suspect
    Here we go...

    http://www.wthr.com/article/man-seen...-now-a-suspect

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    Even better!

  17. #117
    Senior Member Words Words's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wondery View Post
    Hahaha - I need to post a pic of a mic drop here.

    No updates. I also have not looked into much including looking to see if Colonel happens to be locked up. I can say, he hasn't updated FB since Feb 14.
    I don't think you can search inmates in that county, or at least I couldn't when I was looking the other day. You could always search vine...
    Quote Originally Posted by Jolly Roger View Post
    Because they are probably not ghetto and hood like me.

  18. #118
    Senior Member TupeloHoney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blighted star View Post
    For the record, I am NOT questioning the lack of Amber Alert for Libby & Abby at all. I know they didn't qualify. I only mentioned it to explain the vague connection to this thread.

    The Amber Alert issued in Gary however is dodgy as fuck & NO-ONE should be defending it.

    They KNEW she ran away voluntarily. If they thought she was at risk of self harm it should've been a Silver Alert.

    The Amber Alert requirements in Indiana aren't "abducted OR at risk of serious bodily harm", it's abducted AND at risk of serious bodily harm"

    http://www.in.gov/amberalert/2337.htm

    They knew of no abduction, they had to imagine the possibility of one & lie about it to issue that Amber Alert. That's why people in Delphi were so pissed off - they know Gary Police straight out LIED to get an Amber Alert issued & they wanted to know why their girls weren't considered important enough for police to lie for them too (& yeah, I know, even if Delphi Police had been willing to subvert the Amber Alert system like Gary Police did, it wouldn't have helped their girls anyway).

    The Gary Amber Alert was dangerous bullshit & those officers should be fucking ashamed of themselves.

    How the fuck is anyone who realises what they did supposed to trust that the next Amber Alert they see for a teen isn't just another police scam to get the public to hand over juvenile suspects faster?

    They deliberately misused & undermined a trusted child protection system & that should concern EVERYONE.

    Edit & Tamra I worked with street kids for years & 100% agree with the first part of your post (& the second for that matter).

    The Amber Alert guidelines don't need changing, they're strict for a reason. What they probably need though is serious enforceable penalties for their deliberate misuse by police officers who think rules apply to everyone but them.


    In fairness, your comment made it sound like you weren't sure the info you were sharing was accurate. You even said "IF they did." I wasn't defending what they did ... I wasn't even sure they really did it. I was just trying to figure out what legitimate reason there might have been for issuing an Amber Alert for her.

    And they couldn't issue a Silver Alert if she was threatening suicide, because Silver Alerts are for adults 18 and over. http://www.in.gov/silveralert/2331.htm

    If it is true that, according to you, the people of Delphi aren't upset police allegedly lied to get an Amber Alert for the Gary girl, they're just upset police didn't lie to get one for the Delphi girls, too ... well, that's fucking stupid. Two wrongs don't make a right. Maybe they're the ones who need to be excoriated instead of people commenting here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Not your business View Post
    I will out think the fucking pants off of you and you would thank me for helping you out of them.

  19. #119
    Cousin Greg Angiebla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wondery View Post
    Not just POI - suspect!

    Man seen in photo on trail in Delphi is now a suspect
    Here we go...

    http://www.wthr.com/article/man-seen...-now-a-suspect
    Ok so they have evidence now, so they can call him a suspect. I thought people on fb already ID'd him.


    I think this case is going to turn out like an episode of Web of Lies. I think they thought they were meeting up with teenage boys.

    "The love for all living creatures is the most noble attribute of man" -Charles Darwin

    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
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  20. #120
    Senior Member bermstalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angiebla View Post
    Ok so they have evidence now, so they can call him a suspect. I thought people on fb already ID'd him.


    I think this case is going to turn out like an episode of Web of Lies. I think they thought they were meeting up with teenage boys.
    Nobody has ID'ed him. Just a bunch of rumors. Rumors that have led nowhere.

    Yes. I think these girls were catfished.
    My husband doesn't even follow crimes at all and I told him the basics in this one. He said "they thought they were meeting some young guy at a specific spot on the trail and the were wrong. Probably took out the one right away (one of the girls) and the other was threatened for awhile"

  21. #121
    Senior Member blighted star's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TupeloHoney View Post
    In fairness, your comment made it sound like you weren't sure the info you were sharing was accurate. You even said "IF they did." I wasn't defending what they did ... I wasn't even sure they really did it. I was just trying to figure out what legitimate reason there might have been for issuing an Amber Alert for her.

    And they couldn't issue a Silver Alert if she was threatening suicide, because Silver Alerts are for adults 18 and over. http://www.in.gov/silveralert/2331.htm

    If it is true that, according to you, the people of Delphi aren't upset police allegedly lied to get an Amber Alert for the Gary girl, they're just upset police didn't lie to get one for the Delphi girls, too ... well, that's fucking stupid. Two wrongs don't make a right. Maybe they're the ones who need to be excoriated instead of people commenting here.
    Nah, I'm not going to argue with people from Delphi. The coments were made immediately after 2 young girls were found dead in their town. The criteria was explained to them & for the most part they quieted down. They were just really upset & lashing out.

    & it is still "IF" because none of us were privy to the police discussions while it was issued & Gary Police are refusing to explain how they decided it met the criteria. There are enough questions though that people should be demanding an official investigation into who made that decision & why. That was my point.

    This next part isnt meant to be argumentative, it's just so everyone understands the criteria

    re the Silver Alert, it does apply to minors. Your link begins with a reference to Missing Endangered Adult, I.C. 12-7-2-131.3; or
    High Risk Missing Person, I.C. 5-2-17-1
    .

    The definition of "High Risk Missing Person I.C. 5-2-17-1" includes

    "A person whose disappearance may be the result of the commission of a crime.

    A person whose disappearance occurred under circumstances that are inherently dangerous.

    A missing person who is in need of medical attention or prescription medication.

    A missing person who may be at risk due to abduction by a noncustodial parent.

    A missing person who is mentally impaired.

    A missing person who is less than twenty-one (21) years of age"

    http://www.in.gov/silveralert/2329.htm
    The last part at your link also talks about children & the ACIM alert, so I maybe should've said "Silver Alert/ACIM", but I've never heard of ACIM so I just went with the familiar one.



    My point wasn't to attack anyone here, it was just to make clear that this is deadly serious. Police misuse of Amber Alerts endangers all future missing kids, no matter where they live, & that should concern everyone.

  22. #122
    Senior Member blighted star's Avatar
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    Sorry all, police accountability rants over, & back on topic properly now ...


    That RSO list I posted has 54 names on it. Only some have Delphi addresses so at first glance it doesn't seem so bad, BUT all of the guys with home addresses in other towns work at Delphi's meat packing plant.

    There are several who resemble the bridge guy.

    http://www.icrimewatch.net/results.p...elphi&AllCity=


    I'm also trying to find a link I saw that said the girls were located by following their tracks. If that's true, it fits with posts I've seen from locals saying it's really muddy where they were found.

    Which means, police probably knew a lot the first day - like exactly where the girls walked, whether they were with the person, followed, or met them in there. How many people were there. Which direction the perp/s came in & left by, whether there was a struggle, whether the perp/s physically moved them at any point etc etc etc - not to mention shoe size/style, weight & maybe even approximate height.


    The day the "arrests" started being discussed on soc med, police were quoted saying the "labs are very busy" so could be they're just waiting for DNA screening on all of their 54 RSO's & any other names they've been given. I guess if there's no hits they might do the whole town. Mass testing has been used successfully before

    https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2000/04/dna-a20.html

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/ma...i-1579122.html

    But since this town has a bridge that appeals to rail buffs from all over the world & a geocache site somewhere at that same bridge,

    https://www.geocaching.com/geocache/...1-2c6e6780f252

    https://www.geocaching.com/geocache/...1-83e8c8b817c3

    Also this one, but not sure it's the right Delphi

    https://www.geocaching.com/geocache/...wn-blue-lagoon

    ((credit for thinking of geocaching doesn't belong to me)


    There are also the bridge hunting people

    https://bridgehunter.com/in/carroll/high/


    So yeah, mass screening might not be so easy this time


    Edit : & obviously fuck knows how many former violent sex offender employees of the meat packing plant.
    Last edited by blighted star; 02-19-2017 at 06:43 PM.

  23. #123
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    Pic not phone

  24. #124
    Senior Member blighted star's Avatar
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    https://www.yahoo.com/news/police-ex...173600280.html



    DELPHI, Ind. (AP) ? Authorities said Monday they are expanding the search for a suspect in the killings of two girls who were found dead near a northern Indiana trail last week.

    Indiana State Police are looking beyond the town of Delphi for a man photographed near the trail Feb. 13 around the time a relative dropped the girls off, Sgt. Kim Riley told WLFI-TV in Lafayette (http://bit.ly/2l0oatA ).

    Police said Sunday that the unidentified man is the "main suspect" in the deaths of 14-year-old Liberty German and 13-year-old Abigail Williams.

    "We are actually expanding out," Riley said Monday. "We want people who may have seen somebody walking, that may have picked up a hitchhiker, that may have seen a hitchhiker around that afternoon."


    Authorities have not detailed the evidence that led them to consider the man a suspect or how they obtained the grainy photograph. Police had previously said they considered him a person they wanted to speak with as part of the investigation.

    The girls' bodies were found Tuesday, one day after they went missing, about a quarter-mile from an abandoned railroad bridge that's part of a trail system. The teens had planned to go hiking on the trails during a day off school in Delphi, a community of about 3,000 people some 60 miles northwest of Indianapolis.

    Their deaths have been ruled a double-homicide, but authorities have not disclosed how the girls died. Private funeral services were held Sunday.

    A task force made up of FBI agents, state police and local law enforcement is investigating.

    I wonder if they were able to track him out of there because of the mud & then saw vehicle tracks showing he was picked up (which doesn't necessarily mean hitchhiker), ... or if they've got jackshit from the first round of DNA screening & they're totally grasping?

    There are a lot more violent SO's in the surrounding towns. I only linked the ones that actually live & work in Delphi.

    There's also talk in the fb group that the early rumours about their injuries may be true because of the way they were presented at the viewing, which really sux if true. Poor kids



    Edit they all hear the same press conference but don't report the same stuff.

    Wonder if the officer spontaneously "added" that they'd be interested in anyone who saw someone getting rid of a backpack, or if it was a response to a random journo question.

    We'll have to find the interview footage to know for sure I guess.

    But ffs, you'd think they'd give a description of the damn bag if it's important, because if it's dumped outside of Delphi, no-one's going to connect it to these girls unless their names are written on something associated with it


    http://www.jconline.com/story/news/c...pect/98158706/


    Edit 2 : Unless they've already got it & believe the killer is the one who dumped it where they found it, I guess. There's vid at the link which might shed some light, I just can't view it on this device.

    (& I shouldn't post before 9am, it always results in multiple edits )
    Last edited by blighted star; 02-20-2017 at 11:53 AM.

  25. #125
    Senior Member blighted star's Avatar
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    Also, this was tweeted to @ISPPeru

    Seems there is a structure of some kind in the general area of the crime scene.







    For some context, these are pix of the scene tweeted by local journos. There seems to be a fairly big area taped off, bigger than I suspected from the verbal descriptions anyway.

    The pix do seem to be showing the "beach" area that was described as a local high school hangout. Closer to the water than I expected too, but the scene tape might extend further than it shows in the pix

    It sux that they were so alone at that moment despite being in a place that's seen generations of happy teen gatherings
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