it is very one sided, but they do make some negative comments on stevens past. it will be interesting if more jurors speak out. it's a small community, it's easy to understand they may be afraid for their safety.
it is very one sided, but they do make some negative comments on stevens past. it will be interesting if more jurors speak out. it's a small community, it's easy to understand they may be afraid for their safety.
White trash geneticsOriginally Posted by mydeathspace
It's definitely one-sided, but I still don't find it incredibly biased. I mean, it's probably hard to avoid some bias when making something like this, because it's so fucked up. I really think they tried to present it as balanced as possible, but most of the people involved in the prosecution were adept at making themselves look as horrible as possible without needing any help from the producers. They reached out from the very beginning to the other side through the entire thing, and mostly they weren't interesting in participating and giving their side of the story. Plus, most of what is "missing" is according to Ken Kratz, some of which was actually in the documentary. There were a few things left out; I felt they really are mostly inconsequential, and I think a lot of it had to do with the fact that it was already 10+ hours, they really can't show everything, so I think they chose to focus the skeevy stuff. From what I've read, I get the idea that the women involved had no idea what they were stumbling onto from the beginning, so I don't think they went in there with any sort of agenda to start.I've watched the first episode, but can't decide if I want to invest another 9 hours just to get pissed off at the TV. Isn't this very one sided? Just like the fake GOP dead baby parts/Planned Parenthood video? Isn't the point to sway us in one direction? I caught part of an article today saying key pieces of evidence were left out by the producers.
Okay, just started Episode 2.
I agree, let's say we're past the point of spoilers now and everyone who reads from this point should be forewarned. I have been waiting since December 21st to discuss this, I literally cannot hold it in anymore. I actually watched the entire thing a second time waiting for people to finish!! It was interesting to watch it again from the beginning knowing what went on and who all the players are right from the get-go.
Okay, things I need to discuss:
Do you believe that Steven is actually innocent, or just that there is reasonable doubt? What about Brenden? Or does anyone here actually think he is definitely guilty?
If you think he/they are innocent, do you have any theories on suspects? Theories on how the set-up went down?
Personally, the one thing I have had an issue with that made me unable to exclude Steven completely at first was that this guy would have to be incredibly fucking unlucky to have been the last guy to see a woman who goes missing and turns up murdered at this exact point in his life. I mean, it's hard to accept that it is a coincidence. I honestly think it is now. Because of this, some people have jumped on the idea that means you'd have to believe the police were involved in her actual murder if you believe he was set up by them. Before they found her body, I was actually wondering if the police had found Teresa and convinced her/paid her to "disappear" after visiting Steven's house. Especially because her family came across as very odd to me; especially her brother.
Steven's defense attorneys were convinced that someone else who knew Steven would be looked at by police set him up, and that the police themselves were not involved with the murder, but that they truly thought he was guilty when they were planting evidence. While I don't doubt they would be capable of murdering someone to further their agenda, I don't think the police killed her. I do, however, disagree with his attorneys. I don't think anyone besides the police tried to set Steven up, and I think they knew damn well he was not guilty when they did it. I think every single piece of physical evidence against him was planted, and while his attorneys seemed to lean towards her remains being moved by the police after the perpetrator burned them, I actually believe that the night that Colborn called in the license plate, he didn't only find her vehicle; I think her body was in the back of the Rav4. I think the police burned her body, to try to destroy physical evidence that could point to anyone else.
I am still unsure who I believe really killed her. The step-father, Scott Tadych, and Blain Dassey seem very possible on the one hand; but on the other hand, as any investigator knows, it's usually someone closer to the victim. Her ex boyfriend, the roommate, and her brother all bothered me. I don't know if it's likely they were all involved in the actual murder, but I believe they all know what really happened. Her brother came across suspicious to me immediately. His behaviour was part of why I thought maybe the entire thing was a set-up and she was in hiding, before they found her body. I can't put my finger on what it is about him, but I feel something is very wrong every time he opens his mouth.
The things that come out of people's mouths are astounding. My favourite is a toss-up; is it when Ken Kratz says it would have been easier for them to kill Steven Avery to get rid of him, rather than to set him up? Or is it when, in his closing arguments, he basically says "Ok, fine, so let's say the key WAS planted by police, who cares?! Ignore it then, and just look at all this other evidence the police found!"
As much as I hate smarmy Ken Kratz, I really loathe Len Kachinsky. He literally makes me want to puke; whenever his face shows up on screen, I get a sick feeling in my stomach. It was a small victory, but when he got up there and lied on stand about what he'd said, and then they played the TV clip back to him, it was awesome watching him squirm. The fact that he would make ANY sort of comment on the case when he hasn't even talked to his client yet was just unbelievable. He should have been disbarred for his conduct as Brenden's lawyer; if what he did was not a violation of the bar, they need to change their rules. When his stupid investigator got up on the stand after him, and starting blubbering when he realized he was caught and he was fucked, and then he tried to claim it was because of the blue ribbon? Oh yes, I also loved when Ken Kratz said in closing arguments at Steven's trial that there was one man and one man only that murdered Teresa Holbach... and then goes on to try Brenden Dassey for the same crime.
I think Brenden's second lawyer did have good intentions, but he really dropped the ball. I don't understand why he agreed for the end of the police interrogation to NOT be shown... you know, the part where he takes back what he just said to the police and says they got in his head? or the fact that the prosecution used conversations where he "confessed" to his mom, but his lawyer never played the conversations where he told her afterward that he was lying to police and didn't do it? The one where he says "It's because I'm stupid" multiple times broke my heart, and that's what the jury needed to hear. They needed to hear how often he went back and forth and how screwed up he was from all of the interrogations and stuff. And, if Len Kachinsky was removed from the case for being improper, then NONE of the evidence gathered during that time should have been used against Brenden. They should not have been able to put up those pictures he'd drawn, or play the tape of him calling his mom.
Sorry for all the posting, I just stumbled across this though;
https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurd..._mike_halbach/
Interesting tidbits from the link;
"Teresa's brother and ex-boyfriend were said to be friends with Blaine Dassey and familiar with the junkyard, but they lied about having been there before."
Huh. Well then. I had no idea they even knew the Dasseys and Averys, aside from Teresa herself, from working at Auto Trader.
And whose vehicle was Teresa photographing? Not Steven Avery's, but Barb Janda's. The girlfriend of Scott Tadych, who tried to sell the possible murder weapon to a co-worker and offered unnecessary excuses for blood on his clothes.
Teresa Halbach was there that day ultimately at the request of Barb Janda. The mother of Bobby Dassey, who left the house alone with a firearm, by his own admission, who took a shower before he left and another shower when he got home. Bobby Dassey who had fresh scratches on his back that he said were from a dog.
I hadn't really considered before that it is interesting that it wasn't Steven Avery who was even trying to sell the vehicle.
The missing voicemails really bothered me, as well as the "stalker" who was calling and harassing Teresa and that can be identified from phone records, but whom the defense was not allowed to identify to the jury or accuse by name.
FYI - regarding the evidence against Steven missing from the documentary; from what I've been able to find, it doesn't make him look good, but it definitely doesn't make him look convincingly guilty of murder. First, they kind of glossed over the cat-on-fire incident. He made it sound like he threw a cat over the flames at the goading of friends, and it's fur caught on fire. Apparently, he doused the cat in gasoline and lit it on fire. I'll admit; that's fucking horrid. and I would not let Steven Avery pet sit for me. Some people have been freaking out saying that he's obvious a serial killer because of this, and while serial killers have been known to abuse animals, not everyone who abuses animals is a serial killer... but it doesn't sound good. The other evidence is that Teresa had apparently complained to Auto Trader that she did not want to go over to the Avery property anymore to take photos, because Steven Avery creeped her out. She reported that he had answered the door wearing nothing but a towel at one point, and that he just made her really uncomfortable. The day she disappeared, Steven Avery called her three or four times before her appointment, and two of those times he blocked his number from her call display. Again, it doesn't look good, but I don't see that being convincing enough evidence that he murdered her. My husband laughed at the last part, because he is impatient, and if someone did not answer his call and he wanted to confirm a time or something, he would call back that many times. He also said that when he thinks someone is avoiding his call in these situations, he has blocked his number before to see if they'd pick up.
Alternative suspects in the case of Teresa's murder: https://a248.e.akamai.net/f/1452/721...e%2023%20+.pdf
Alternative suspect court filings that were not allowed to be introduced.
The Brother was referring to Teresa as already dead while she was still missing. The first time the media interviewed him, he expressed just wanting closure. After that, it seems he knew he fucked up because he started referring to her as just missing and for whoever has her to let her come home. THAT'S why he skeeves me out.
Last edited by Boston Babe 73; 01-06-2016 at 07:32 AM.
You can take those Fleets and shove them up your ass
One of the Defense lawyers did an interview making a good point that evidence from both sides was left out. He said they did as best a job as they could showing a 6 week murder trial in a matter of hours.
The fact that they have written proof from the authorities stating that the Family was evil and incestuous and that they needed to cut the branch of the Family tree to a stump is all the proof I need that they had it out for this family from the beginning. Whether or not he did it, it's painfully obvious that there was plenty of reasonable doubt and he AND Brendan were wrongfully convicted.
You can take those Fleets and shove them up your ass
That interview really bothered me too, and it what had me side-eying him (eyeing? It underlines that, but eying doesn't look right!). If it's the interview I'm thinking of, where he kind of went on and on about how he's not sure how long the grieving process will last? I wouldn't go as far as to say he was referring to her as dead but you don't need to grieve for someone who is still alive so he might as well have, and that was skeevy as fuck. It's funny, because at times during the trial when they'd show them, it looked like the family was getting angry when suspicious things were brought up, and I thought at first maybe even they were starting to realize how fucked up stuff was. Clearly not though; so some of their reactions to the evidence seem really odd. Another weird thing about the brother was his comments to the media after every day in court, it was always "welp, I thought maybe they'd get up there and tell the truth, but they didn't, they just lied, which I should have expected because all they do is lie." Like, he couldn't mention the fact that they were lying enough times. Just drilling it in. Meanwhile, he doesn't seem angry at them at all, or particularly upset about any of the details of his sister's murder mentioned during the trial. He doesn't really comment on anything else, he just really wants to make the point that they are all lying liars who lie.
Also did anyone notice how weird the brother and ex boyfriend were during that interview when the reporter asked where they were searching? I think it was the ex boyfriend who was talking first and he seemed to be having stuttering and tripping over his words before the brother finally cut in and started talking. I may be wrong because it's been a few days since I watched it but I'm pretty a sure that's how it went.
Yep. All of this and that is indeed the interview I'm referring to. When he said "grieving process" both my Husband and I looked at each other with wide eyes saying, "But she's just missing as far as he's concerned". A HUGE WTF moment. And after that it's "Let her come home". Not to mention that none of them seemed overly upset that she was gone. No emotions on the part of her family.
You can take those Fleets and shove them up your ass
I noticed that too. I'm only on episode 6 cuz my Internet shat out at home (new U-Verse coming Friday), but I don't mind reading the spoilers. I will say this, watching Episode 6 about the DNA evidence (aka lack there of), and me working with Forensic DNA Labs literally all the time, they/she effed up BAD. I don't for one second buy her "I was training and my DNA must have been projected". First of all, when you do the buffer and ALL the sample is off the evidence, you treat that sample like FUCKING GOLD. You always wear gloves, run the test completely alone, and NEVER talk to or train someone over a sample that critical. Effin dumb. I don't believe it. And I don't care who you are, it's 100% impossible to wipe all blood evidence (especially from a gun shot wound) from the million surfaces in that garage and home. Im-fucking-possible.
Finished Episode 2 last night and I found it interesting how excited the woman who called the cops to report the missing RAV4 was. She said something like, "are those the VIN #'s?" or "Is this the car?!?!" What a psychopath. Unless, there was a reward, then I'd be excited as well.
I don't think there was a reward. She is the victim's aunt and apparently Jesus led her to the vehicle.
I know. I love how when they questioned how she found the car so quickly out of the acres and acres and rows and rows of cars that her answer was "Jesus led me".
You can take those Fleets and shove them up your ass
Are all the episodes on Netflix already or do you have to wait for more?
Gooble goble gooble goble one of us one of us. t(-_-)t
all of them are available.
my roku plays them with a gap of 20 seconds between episodes.
I just started the 1st episode, how many are there?
Gooble goble gooble goble one of us one of us. t(-_-)t
Maybe there was a guy working there names Jesus.
10
Maybe there was a guy working there names Jesus.
You can take those Fleets and shove them up your ass
She sounds like she found an easter egg or something.
Gooble goble gooble goble one of us one of us. t(-_-)t
The golden egg
Its uncomfortable as hell watching them interrogate Brendan.
Gooble goble gooble goble one of us one of us. t(-_-)t
This is the part that infuriated me the most. They took advantage of a borderline mentally retarded child. His mentality is that of a young child, you can tell. I fucking hate them.
You can take those Fleets and shove them up your ass
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