Please move if this is the wrong spot! Sorry if they're repeats.
Please move if this is the wrong spot! Sorry if they're repeats.
Originally Posted by Seraphim
Oatmeal also has some really funny posters.
I think it is rather funny this thread comes up because I am sure I normally post in jibberish. It would probably annoy the shit out of me at times but otherwise, fuck it. Words are too easily abused, sometimes paraphrasing is enough. Grammar, how does it work??
There are certain people on here that I hate replying to because I know they're judging my grammar. I'm looking at you, Sabrina and Tara.
Potatoe.
I like it. Consider that rep all around since I am phoning it.
Exactly why I added 'and stuff'.I often have questions that Grammar Girl has yet to answer - figure I can as them here. I do try to maintain decent grammar and spelling, but I also fuck up; therefore, I rarely poke fun at individuals for grammar/spelling. So, yes, this might be a good place for complaints (I learn from them), but also for funnies, questions, and debates. For instance, serial comma? Or no?
See!! Ask, not 'as'. Dammit.
You all know you love my !! ..
As for where the , is placed .. That is a matter of expression.
I always thought you weren't supposed to put a comma after the last thing in the series, but now apparently you can, but don't have to. My work software puts them in and I've been taking them out all this time.
And my current pet peeve is REdiculous. It's RIDiculous. So many people do that.
There's a great children's book about apostrophes where the apostrophe sticks himself into words where he's not supposed to be.
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apostrophes frighten me. Im dyslexic as a mofo, and half of the time it takes me forever to type things because I have to go back and correct so much, and then I never get it all. Im always mixing up where letters and punctuation go.
I used to be a grammar nazi, but being online more and more has made me weaken a little. Misplaced apostrophes and total lack of punctuation makes me rage! Especially people who use .......... to break up thoughts instead of more appropriate punctuation. I get ellipses.. I use them a lot! But seriously, I have read posts where people have typed like this.............it drives me crazy...........you know what I mean...........
Spelling, on the other hand is a whole different ballgame! Doesn't everything have spell-check now? The red squigglies means it's wrong!! With the flooding going on in my town, I'm getting to know the community a lot more via news stations' FB pages. All I can say is this area is full of a bunch of dumb illiterate motherfuckers. Go go Minot public schools!
Every area has them, and they seem to be the most vocal citizens on message boards.
This is why I dont use them. I will usually put them in the wrong place and I figure its better to just omit them all together. Im actually a great reader and speller, and I can articulate well. But typing gets me. When I write its easy and I dont mess up words or forget how to spell or where punctuation goes. Stick that keyboard in front of me though...
I adore appropriately placed ellipses. On a keyboard, I too, have to restrain myself.
My take on the serial comma:
This is probably the only subject that I disagree with Stephen T. Colbert on. The reason I am for them is because they separate each word, which can be important. Scenario 1: someone tells me to go to the store and pick up onions, cookies, and cream. I will return with onions, a pint of cream, and cookies. Scenario 2: they tell me to pick up onions, cookies and cream. I will return with onions and a pint of cookies and cream ice-cream. Not using the last comma almost combines the final two items.
Speaking of ellipses: A blog favorite of mine that is reediting Twilight because the first editor... sucked.
I make jokes, but I don't judge. (Nearly) everyone here has a much better handle on grammar than the authors whose projects I work on.
Your point is kind of moo because style guides that prefer no serial commas (e.g., AP) use them when necessary.
Yea, consistency is where it's at for me vs. just when it's necessary. Good point, though.
I totally agree. Lack of serial commas make me rage.
My submissions are usually for journals that do not ever address grammar issues like this, despite their style guidelines. It actually sucks because it ends up in a debate among the co-authors. Ultimately, it's just a style choice (like greeneyes said), but I'm with Mignon.
Using Serial Commas Adds Consistency
Although the serial comma isn't always necessary, I favor it because often it does add clarity, and I believe in having a simple, consistent style, instead of trying to decide whether you need something on a case-by-case basis. I also think using the serial comma makes even simple lists easier to read. Really, unless space is incredibly expensive, I can't imagine why anyone would decide the best method is sometimes leave it out and sometimes add it in.*
Always Use Serial Commas to Prevent Confusion
The one thing everyone does seem to agree about is that you have to use the comma when leaving it out would create confusion, as is often the case when the items in the list could have internal conjunctions or are complex in some other way (1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8). Here’s a sentence that could mean different things with and without the final comma: Rebecca was proud of her new muffin recipes: blueberry, peanut butter and chocolate chip and coconut.
Without a serial comma, you can’t be sure whether the last recipe is a combination of peanut butter and chocolate chip or a combination of chocolate chip and coconut. You can make the meaning clear in two ways: place the final comma after peanut butter or after chocolate chip, or rewrite the sentence so that there is no ambiguity.
If you want to say that the combination is peanut butter and chocolate chip, you can write blueberry, peanut butter and chocolate chip, and coconut, or if you insist on leaving out the serial comma, you can rewrite the list as peanut butter and chocolate chip, coconut and blueberry. But I still think the rewrite is more risky than the sentence with the serial comma because a reader who's just skimming the sentence could be tempted to think that coconut and blueberry is a combination.
Another case where leaving the comma out can be confusing is when the later items in the list can describe an earlier item. An oft-cited example is the made-up book dedication To my parents, Ayn Rand and God. A reasonable reader would assume there are four entities being thanked: mom, dad, Ayn Rand, and God; but without the serial comma you could also conclude that the two parents are Ayn Rand and God. A serial comma clears up any confusion: To my parents, Ayn Rand, and God.
The Bottom Line on Serial Commas
Finally, there are similar sentences where even a serial comma doesn't make the meaning clear. Consider this sentence: I went to see Zack, an officer and a gentleman.
Without the serial comma—I went to see Zack, an officer and a gentleman—it could mean that Zack is both an officer and a gentleman, or that I went to see three people: Zack, an unnamed officer, and an unnamed gentleman.
With the serial comma—I went to see Zack, an officer, and a gentleman—it could still mean two different things. It could mean I went to see three people (Zack, an unnamed officer, and an unnamed gentleman), or it could mean I went to see two people (Zack, who is an officer, and an unnamed gentleman).
So, the bottom line is that using the serial comma is a style choice. Most publications except newspapers favor using it all the time, as do I, and all publications call for a serial comma when leaving it out could cause confusion. And sometimes sorting out your meaning is just too much for one little comma and the best option is to rewrite your sentence.
* I am aware that the final preposition could be left off the end of this sentence without changing the meaning. I considered leaving it off, but decided to write it this way because the timing is better when it is read aloud.
Transcription department QA doesn't even bother about commas anymore. They got tired of arguing about them.
I must admit, given my profession, I make many, many errors in grammar and spelling that embarrass me in hindsight. Sometimes, I'm just thinking and typing too fast. Other times, I am truly a moron.
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