Suicide Prevention / Suicide Survivors Thread

[tgyta]

One of Joe's friends told me once that if I hadn't come along...maybe Joe would have killed himself a long time ago...maybe I was just keeping him going..

I think when he first said that I wrote it off as him just trying to take some of my guilt away.  For some reason lately I've been thinking back to when I first met him though.  I think about how he was kind of lost when I met him.  He had a lot of his "ailments" with the headaches and stomach problems...he was skinny as all hell...he had a shitload of bills and instead of paying them, he didn't even open them, just threw them right in the trash.  I think about how quick he was to date me...how quick our whole relationship was...how soon we decided to have kids and get married...our whole life happened in 3 years..

I feel like shit even thinking it...like it makes what we had fake...like it was all some sort of...facade...like it was a fix to a bigger problem..like it wasn't love...

but it was...on my part at least...and lately I've been finding myself doubting his part...like I was more of a cure for soemthing bigger with him than someone he was actaully in love with...I hate thinking like that..

but then I've also gotta think about how he just suddenly ended it...we had a great relationship...never really fought much..maybe one other big blowout..it just doesn't make sense the more I think about it that this one incident would push a perfectly stable and mentally sound person over the edge..I know I can't put all the blame on myself for this...I know there was more going on with him...at least now I do...NO idea why I didn't see it before..just wrote it all off as stress and no big deal...

I feel like I'm making excuses for myself....like I'm trying to find a way to move on guilt free...

just looking back it makes me feel like I never knew him at all...but I know I did...I think in some ways I knew him better than most...just nothing clicked at the time that there was a problem here...

The idea of me just being someone to get him by though hurts...it's kind of a lose lose for me...either he loved me wholeheartedly and it killed him...or it was all fake, I was just a quick fix to keep him in the world a little longer and then all the meaning in our relationship is taken away...

maybe I'm just simplifying this too much...maybe it was a little of both...hurts either way..

bah....too long of a post...sorry...

[Cathynugz]

[quote author=bekkyboo1985 link=topic=6444.msg819055#msg819055 date=1208652639]
Wow. Is that your story or someone you know?

[/quote]

That is my story... or personal experience with suicide.  I am Cathy
<------- see :)

[Onthedarkside]

[quote author=Cathynugz link=topic=6444.msg819317#msg819317 date=1208693733]
That is my story... or personal experience with suicide.  I am Cathy
<------- see :)
[/quote]

[hlw1214]

[quote author=Cathynugz link=topic=6444.msg815273#msg815273 date=1208441752]
I have dealt with suicide a lot more than a person should.  I try to talk to people about the rippling effect that it has  on someone.  If anyone is interested I posted my story on a suicide prevention myspace page.  You can read it here.

http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=260791 577&blogID=322745611
[/quote]

Wow! You are such a strong woman! Your story made me cry!

[Cathynugz]

[quote author=hlw1214 link=topic=6444.msg819399#msg819399 date=1208711748]
Wow! You are such a strong woman! Your story made me cry!
[/quote]

Thanks, when you go through something like that you have two choices

1. To live your life, be strong, and deal with the situation the best you can.
2. To crumble and fall apart.

I chose option number one... because it made me realize life is WAY to precious after going through something like that.

[lolwtf]

[quote author=tgyta link=topic=12478.msg819071#msg819071 date=1208653937]..or it was all fake, I was just a quick fix to keep him in the world a little longer and then all the meaning in our relationship is taken away...
[/quote]

from what you've stated it really sounds like he loved you and tried to overcome his obstacles to have an easier life with you.

[bekkyboo1985]

[quote author=Cathynugz link=topic=6444.msg819317#msg819317 date=1208693733]
That is my story... or personal experience with suicide.  I am Cathy
<------- see :)
[/quote]

You are a strong girl Cathy 

[like skeletons]

my boyfriend of a year and a half, jack pennington, killed himself three months ago.

you know, i used to love this site. i visited it every day, eager to find out who had died and in what terrible way. i never thought that one day i'd be seeing the most important person in my life on here. it's the weirdest feeling in the world: knowing that complete strangers are looking at his page, at his pictures, and speculating about his death. even judging him.

it took me three months to work up the courage to write this. i just wanted to respond to the people who posted about him and say that you didn't know him, you don't know anything about his situation, and if you haven't actually ever lost someone you love to suicide, how can you have such strong opinions about it? trust me, until you experience something you have no clue how you will react or what your feelings about it will be.

jack was the most amazing, funny, intelligent, witty, and caring person i have ever met. his myspace page doesn't represent any of that. it doesn't represent the beautiful boy i fell more in love with every day, who i was supposed to go to school and move in with in the fall. i had no idea he was going to kill himself and i was the closest person to him. i don't know how i feel about suicide; i don't really know how i feel about anything these days. all i know is that it's easy to pass judgement and make assumptions about people you don't know and don't really care about, but that doesn't make it right.

[FemmeFatality]

[quote author=like skeletons link=topic=12478.msg822991#msg822991 date=1208910064]
my boyfriend of a year and a half, jack pennington, killed himself three months ago.

you know, i used to love this site. i visited it every day, eager to find out who had died and in what terrible way. i never thought that one day i'd be seeing the most important person in my life on here. it's the weirdest feeling in the world: knowing that complete strangers are looking at his page, at his pictures, and speculating about his death. even judging him.

it took me three months to work up the courage to write this. i just wanted to respond to the people who posted about him and say that you didn't know him, you don't know anything about his situation, and if you haven't actually ever lost someone you love to suicide, how can you have such strong opinions about it? trust me, until you experience something you have no clue how you will react or what your feelings about it will be.

jack was the most amazing, funny, intelligent, witty, and caring person i have ever met. his myspace page doesn't represent any of that. it doesn't represent the beautiful boy i fell more in love with every day, who i was supposed to go to school and move in with in the fall. i had no idea he was going to kill himself and i was the closest person to him. i don't know how i feel about suicide; i don't really know how i feel about anything these days. all i know is that it's easy to pass judgement and make assumptions about people you don't know and don't really care about, but that doesn't make it right.
[/quote]

I'm so sorry for your loss.  I know it's easier said than done, but try to over look the negative comments.  From what I remember, there were many positive articles on line that reflected what an incredible person Jack was. 

[missygrant]

[quote author=like skeletons link=topic=12478.msg822991#msg822991 date=1208910064]
my boyfriend of a year and a half, jack pennington, killed himself three months ago.

you know, i used to love this site. i visited it every day, eager to find out who had died and in what terrible way. i never thought that one day i'd be seeing the most important person in my life on here. it's the weirdest feeling in the world: knowing that complete strangers are looking at his page, at his pictures, and speculating about his death. even judging him.

it took me three months to work up the courage to write this. i just wanted to respond to the people who posted about him and say that you didn't know him, you don't know anything about his situation, and if you haven't actually ever lost someone you love to suicide, how can you have such strong opinions about it? trust me, until you experience something you have no clue how you will react or what your feelings about it will be.

jack was the most amazing, funny, intelligent, witty, and caring person i have ever met. his myspace page doesn't represent any of that. it doesn't represent the beautiful boy i fell more in love with every day, who i was supposed to go to school and move in with in the fall. i had no idea he was going to kill himself and i was the closest person to him. i don't know how i feel about suicide; i don't really know how i feel about anything these days. all i know is that it's easy to pass judgement and make assumptions about people you don't know and don't really care about, but that doesn't make it right.
[/quote]

I am also so very sorry for your loss. I can't imagine what you're going through. I have dealt with depression personally for the last 10 years or so. I have been hospitalized time after time and I know what it's like to feel like the world would be better off without you. I think suicidal people really, truly think that their death will benefit the people around them because their family and friends won't have to worry or think of something "encouraging" to say to the crying person.

However, I have realized, as you probably have, that our families and friends are much better off with us in their lives. It is harder to miss someone every day for the rest of your life, than it is to be encouraging and positive to someone who's depressed. Really.

[Soul of Nature]

I just found out today that someone I knew hung himself last night. I'm shocked. He was always so outgoing and full of life. I met him back in 8th grade and we were friends for about a year, but we went to different HS so we were never super close, but we got along well when we saw each other. I used to watch his band play and we'd talk at the shows. Fast forward a few years, my b/f's band plays shows with his band and we all hang out after. We were still friendly with each other and he and my b/f were friends, so it was fun. Last summer, we went to his house and hung out on a pier with him and a girl he was dating. We basically did nothing but sit on the pier and hang out in his room, but it was still fun.

I haven't really talked to him in about a year, but my b/f and I saw him last month at a gas station. We opted not to do anything more than wave because we were in a hurry. Now it makes me sad to think the last time I ever saw him, we didn't even speak. I'm not sure if the funeral is going to be open, or only close friends and family, but I know my b/f wants to go. Would it be weird for me to go too? Honestly, this kid might have forgotten my name since it had been so long since we hung out, but he always recognized me when he saw me and was friendly. I feel awful about this, but I also don't want any of his close friends to think I'm only going to be nosy, like some people do. I just can't stop thinking...24 hours ago, was he alive? Was he alone? Did he know that even people he hadn't seen in a year would be extremely upset to hear this? I'm actually tearing up now...but I feel like his close friends would think that's weird of me. I wasn't extremely close to him, but I did like him. I've basically known him for about 5-6 years, even if he was just a casual friend.

He was so crazy and full of life and always knew how to get a laugh out of people. But apparently in the last few months his life had gone completely downhill and I heard about a month ago that he had been kicked out of his house. Then he got kicked out of his band a few weeks ago, plus his car died and he became behind on bills. I think it just got to be too much for him. I just feel so bad, he must have felt so alone and desperate. I wish I had gotten to know him better, he was always a cool dude. 

What do you guys think, should I go to the funeral if it's not private? I would like to, but I don't want anyone to think I'm there just to be nosy.

I'm still in shock and now I can't help but picture him in a casket. He was just so full of life...I can't imagine him being eternally still.

[alexinmn]

[quote author=Soul of Nature link=topic=6444.msg858324#msg858324 date=1211082930]
I just found out today that someone I knew hung himself last night. I'm shocked. He was always so outgoing and full of life. I met him back in 8th grade and we were friends for about a year, but we went to different HS so we were never super close, but we got along well when we saw each other. I used to watch his band play and we'd talk at the shows. Fast forward a few years, my b/f's band plays shows with his band and we all hang out after. We were still friendly with each other and he and my b/f were friends, so it was fun. Last summer, we went to his house and hung out on a pier with him and a girl he was dating. We basically did nothing but sit on the pier and hang out in his room, but it was still fun.

I haven't really talked to him in about a year, but my b/f and I saw him last month at a gas station. We opted not to do anything more than wave because we were in a hurry. Now it makes me sad to think the last time I ever saw him, we didn't even speak. I'm not sure if the funeral is going to be open, or only close friends and family, but I know my b/f wants to go. Would it be weird for me to go too? Honestly, this kid might have forgotten my name since it had been so long since we hung out, but he always recognized me when he saw me and was friendly. I feel awful about this, but I also don't want any of his close friends to think I'm only going to be nosy, like some people do. I just can't stop thinking...24 hours ago, was he alive? Was he alone? Did he know that even people he hadn't seen in a year would be extremely upset to hear this? I'm actually tearing up now...but I feel like his close friends would think that's weird of me. I wasn't extremely close to him, but I did like him. I've basically known him for about 5-6 years, even if he was just a casual friend.

He was so crazy and full of life and always knew how to get a laugh out of people. But apparently in the last few months his life had gone completely downhill and I heard about a month ago that he had been kicked out of his house. Then he got kicked out of his band a few weeks ago, plus his car died and he became behind on bills. I think it just got to be too much for him. I just feel so bad, he must have felt so alone and desperate. I wish I had gotten to know him better, he was always a cool dude.   

What do you guys think, should I go to the funeral if it's not private? I would like to, but I don't want anyone to think I'm there just to be nosy.

I'm still in shock and now I can't help but picture him in a casket. He was just so full of life...I can't imagine him being eternally still.
[/quote]

sorry

[MissKitty11]

S.O.N, so sorry about your friend. I don't think it's wrong or nosy of you to go to the funeral, if it's open. It's someone you knew. Even if you weren't bffs, you cared about him and are sad he's gone. If you want to pay your respects, then go. I don't think it's weird at all to go to the funeral with your bf. 

[Solara23]

[quote author=MissKitty11 link=topic=6444.msg858328#msg858328 date=1211083259]
S.O.N, so sorry about your friend. I don't think it's wrong or nosy of you to go to the funeral, if it's open. It's someone you knew. Even if you weren't bffs, you cared about him and are sad he's gone. If you want to pay your respects, then go. I don't think it's weird at all to go to the funeral with your bf. 
[/quote]

I second that.  I think by going, you are not only supporting your b/f, but paying final respects to someone who brought joy into your life.  Don't feel weird about it, and go if it's open, and you want to. 

[Soul of Nature]

[quote author=MissKitty11 link=topic=6444.msg858328#msg858328 date=1211083259]
S.O.N, so sorry about your friend. I don't think it's wrong or nosy of you to go to the funeral, if it's open. It's someone you knew. Even if you weren't bffs, you cared about him and are sad he's gone. If you want to pay your respects, then go. I don't think it's weird at all to go to the funeral with your bf. 
[/quote]

Thanks guys...

I think I will go, if it's open. I've been thinking about it all day and even if some of his friends think it's weird, well, I was just one more person who cares about what happened to him. I just still cannot believe this. He's one of the last people I ever would have thought would commit suicide. I guess it just goes to show you never completely know another person's true feelings. I keep looking at a pic of him, and thinking how I'll never see him again. This sucks.

[tgyta]

[quote author=Soul of Nature link=topic=6444.msg858324#msg858324 date=1211082930]
I just found out today that someone I knew hung himself last night. I'm shocked. He was always so outgoing and full of life. I met him back in 8th grade and we were friends for about a year, but we went to different HS so we were never super close, but we got along well when we saw each other. I used to watch his band play and we'd talk at the shows. Fast forward a few years, my b/f's band plays shows with his band and we all hang out after. We were still friendly with each other and he and my b/f were friends, so it was fun. Last summer, we went to his house and hung out on a pier with him and a girl he was dating. We basically did nothing but sit on the pier and hang out in his room, but it was still fun.

I haven't really talked to him in about a year, but my b/f and I saw him last month at a gas station. We opted not to do anything more than wave because we were in a hurry. Now it makes me sad to think the last time I ever saw him, we didn't even speak. I'm not sure if the funeral is going to be open, or only close friends and family, but I know my b/f wants to go. Would it be weird for me to go too? Honestly, this kid might have forgotten my name since it had been so long since we hung out, but he always recognized me when he saw me and was friendly. I feel awful about this, but I also don't want any of his close friends to think I'm only going to be nosy, like some people do. I just can't stop thinking...24 hours ago, was he alive? Was he alone? Did he know that even people he hadn't seen in a year would be extremely upset to hear this? I'm actually tearing up now...but I feel like his close friends would think that's weird of me. I wasn't extremely close to him, but I did like him. I've basically known him for about 5-6 years, even if he was just a casual friend.

He was so crazy and full of life and always knew how to get a laugh out of people. But apparently in the last few months his life had gone completely downhill and I heard about a month ago that he had been kicked out of his house. Then he got kicked out of his band a few weeks ago, plus his car died and he became behind on bills. I think it just got to be too much for him. I just feel so bad, he must have felt so alone and desperate. I wish I had gotten to know him better, he was always a cool dude.   

What do you guys think, should I go to the funeral if it's not private? I would like to, but I don't want anyone to think I'm there just to be nosy.

I'm still in shock and now I can't help but picture him in a casket. He was just so full of life...I can't imagine him being eternally still.
[/quote]

I say go ahead and go to the funeral.  At my hubby's there was a lot of people I didn't know...they were just people he knew before he knew me.  I was glad they showed up.  It meant a lot that they showed up even though joe and them didn't talk so much anymore...

[Soul of Nature]

[quote author=tgyta link=topic=6444.msg858334#msg858334 date=1211084369]
I say go ahead and go to the funeral.  At my hubby's there was a lot of people I didn't know...they were just people he knew before he knew me.  I was glad they showed up.  It meant a lot that they showed up even though joe and them didn't talk so much anymore...


[/quote]


Thanks tgyta, I appreciate your input. And I'm sorry about your husband.

[electricalst0rm]

Oh Alissa I'm so sorry hun. PM me if you wanna talk.

[hlw1214]

[quote author=tgyta link=topic=6444.msg858334#msg858334 date=1211084369]
I say go ahead and go to the funeral.  At my hubby's there was a lot of people I didn't know...they were just people he knew before he knew me.  I was glad they showed up.  It meant a lot that they showed up even though joe and them didn't talk so much anymore...


[/quote]

Can I just say what a strong woman you are?! Every time I see you post, I just think how strong you must be and how much you have gone through! Your boys are lucky to have a mama like you!

[Cathynugz]

[quote author=hlw1214 link=topic=6444.msg858539#msg858539 date=1211115943]
Can I just say what a strong woman you are?! Every time I see you post, I just think how strong you must be and how much you have gone through! Your boys are lucky to have a mama like you!
[/quote]

I second that...

[tgyta]

[quote author=Cathynugz link=topic=6444.msg858551#msg858551 date=1211116871]
I second that...
[/quote][quote author=hlw1214 link=topic=6444.msg858539#msg858539 date=1211115943]
Can I just say what a strong woman you are?! Every time I see you post, I just think how strong you must be and how much you have gone through! Your boys are lucky to have a mama like you!
[/quote]

aww...thanks girls.  :-)  I hope me keeping it together means I'm strong.  Sometimes I worry I'm destined for some sort of break down, like it's not natural to handle it like I do.  Like I should be trashed on a nightly basis and pushing away everyone I know and staring at walls and crying or something.  I definately broke down when it happened and the whole situation definately devestates me and I think will in a way always effect me.  It definately gave me a whole new perspective on life. 

I know I'll never understand and spending all my time trying to or "what if-ing" the past will just destroy me that much more.  I honestly put a lot of credit on the boys.  If it wasn't for them, maybe I would be more of a mess right now.  I'm just glad I'm at where I'm at and taking it one day at a time, not thinking too far ahead and not lingering in the past.  It's suddenly more important than anything else to me now to not prioritize anything above the people in my life.  I just wanna put more time and effort into the people that matter most and enjoy them while they're here.

[Cathynugz]

[quote author=tgyta link=topic=6444.msg858559#msg858559 date=1211117636]
aww...thanks girls.   :-)  I hope me keeping it together means I'm strong.  Sometimes I worry I'm destined for some sort of break down, like it's not natural to handle it like I do.  Like I should be trashed on a nightly basis and pushing away everyone I know and staring at walls and crying or something.  I definately broke down when it happened and the whole situation definately devestates me and I think will in a way always effect me.  It definately gave me a whole new perspective on life. 

I know I'll never understand and spending all my time trying to or "what if-ing" the past will just destroy me that much more.  I honestly put a lot of credit on the boys.  If it wasn't for them, maybe I would be more of a mess right now.  I'm just glad I'm at where I'm at and taking it one day at a time, not thinking too far ahead and not lingering in the past.   It's suddenly more important than anything else to me now to not prioritize anything above the people in my life.  I just wanna put more time and effort into the people that matter most and enjoy them while they're here.
[/quote]

I have gone through somethings... and if were not for my boys I WOULD NOT be sane.  I have found that when something tragic like this happens, that people and family come out of the woodwork and totally want to be a part of your life all of a sudden, when you barely saw them before.  I just did not have time for everyone, I keep my family close, and certain friends close, but I just can't keep up with everyone... and I know that now!

[tgyta]

[quote author=Cathynugz link=topic=6444.msg858562#msg858562 date=1211118710]
I have gone through somethings... and if were not for my boys I WOULD NOT be sane.  I have found that when something tragic like this happens, that people and family come out of the woodwork and totally want to be a part of your life all of a sudden, when you barely saw them before.  I just did not have time for everyone, I keep my family close, and certain friends close, but I just can't keep up with everyone... and I know that now!
[/quote]

Yea, I had a lot of people say "anything u need, just ask" and what not.  Surprisingly most of them were genuine about it even.  At least on my side.  Joe's side's kind of been a whole other story.  The thing I've found out when something tragic happens, it's a perfect time to fight.  And it's not so much fighting about joe as it is rrevisiting old family fueds.  For crying out loud, I don't know if I've mentioned this anywhere before, but do you know how Joe's funeral went?  About 30 minutes into it the only ones in the room were me, MY family and friends..and a few of joe's old friends.  As for his family..they were outside calling the cops on each other and physically blocking people from getting in just becuz they didn't like the person.  Suddenly it's all "well I don't like you and joe would take my side so you're not allowed to come in"  I had the funeral director coming up to me every 10 minutes asking who I wanted to kick out.  It got to the point where I almost left his funeral.  The last thing I need to be doin while I'm sitting 5 feet from his casket is bounce his gaddamn funeral. 

And since then nothing's improved really.  Everyone's pitting everyone against each other and blaming one another for everything and threatening to take people to court.  Total...fucking...nightmare.  Oh, and apparently joe's death is a weapon to use against one another during petty arguments.  I'm really loving that.  It started getting to the point where they were doing it in front of me and my kids.  My kids don't need to be around that shit, I don't care if they're only 1 and 2.  I don't need to be around that shit.  They're big thing is that I only knew him for 3 years...not even three years even...more like 2 1/2ish...so I'm not allowed to be sensitive about his death.  Such bullshit.  I finally had to sideline them and informed them of this in an email becuz I was literally having panic attacks trying to deal with the stress they putting on me constantly.  And THEN they called my mom and tried to get HER against me!  OMFG.

Anyway, I feel bad cutting them out right now, but I'm only doing it until I can handle their bullshit.  Everyone I know tells me to just cut them out for good.  I'm hoping it doesn't come to that but each day it looks less and less likely like they're going to come around and stop making everything a fight.

anyway, wow...holy rant.  oops.  It's been on my mind a little...well a lot actually.  I'm trying to be a good person about this situation but I'm also trying to stay sane and take care of my kids.  I'm not one to put myself first always, but it's becoming necassary I think.  I guess I just don't know what else to do about the situation.  :-(

[Monter]

[quote author=tgyta link=topic=6444.msg858575#msg858575 date=1211120297]
Yea, I had a lot of people say "anything u need, just ask" and what not.  Surprisingly most of them were genuine about it even.  At least on my side.  Joe's side's kind of been a whole other story.  The thing I've found out when something tragic happens, it's a perfect time to fight.  And it's not so much fighting about joe as it is rrevisiting old family fueds.  For crying out loud, I don't know if I've mentioned this anywhere before, but do you know how Joe's funeral went?  About 30 minutes into it the only ones in the room were me, MY family and friends..and a few of joe's old friends.  As for his family..they were outside calling the cops on each other and physically blocking people from getting in just becuz they didn't like the person.  Suddenly it's all "well I don't like you and joe would take my side so you're not allowed to come in"  I had the funeral director coming up to me every 10 minutes asking who I wanted to kick out.  It got to the point where I almost left his funeral.  The last thing I need to be doin while I'm sitting 5 feet from his casket is bounce his gaddamn funeral. 

And since then nothing's improved really.  Everyone's pitting everyone against each other and blaming one another for everything and threatening to take people to court.  Total...fucking...nightmare.  Oh, and apparently joe's death is a weapon to use against one another during petty arguments.  I'm really loving that.  It started getting to the point where they were doing it in front of me and my kids.  My kids don't need to be around that shit, I don't care if they're only 1 and 2.  I don't need to be around that shit.  They're big thing is that I only knew him for 3 years...not even three years even...more like 2 1/2ish...so I'm not allowed to be sensitive about his death.  Such bullshit.  I finally had to sideline them and informed them of this in an email becuz I was literally having panic attacks trying to deal with the stress they putting on me constantly.  And THEN they called my mom and tried to get HER against me!  OMFG.

Anyway, I feel bad cutting them out right now, but I'm only doing it until I can handle their bullshit.  Everyone I know tells me to just cut them out for good.  I'm hoping it doesn't come to that but each day it looks less and less likely like they're going to come around and stop making everything a fight.

anyway, wow...holy rant.  oops.  It's been on my mind a little...well a lot actually.  I'm trying to be a good person about this situation but I'm also trying to stay sane and take care of my kids.  I'm not one to put myself first always, but it's becoming necassary I think.  I guess I just don't know what else to do about the situation.   :-(
[/quote]
I wish I had something wise or profound to respond with - but man, i just dont have words. You are a saint for trying to do the right thing despite these unbelievably toxic people. You are 100% justified in cutting them off forever.
Sadly some people become engrossed in their own sick patterns they destroy everything around them - definitely sounds like their dynamic.
Take care of yourself and your babies- you are a remarkable person, and I am sincerely honored to know you.

[trailerparktrash]

[quote author=cookiemonter link=topic=6444.msg858588#msg858588 date=1211120792]
I wish I had something wise or profound to respond with - but man, i just dont have words. You are a saint for trying to do the right thing despite these unbelievably toxic people. You are 100% justified in cutting them off forever.
Sadly some people become engrossed in their own sick patterns they destroy everything around them - definitely sounds like their dynamic.
Take care of yourself and your babies- you are a remarkable person, and I am sincerely honoured to know you.
[/quote]

What monter said! But I would add a 'u' to my honoured being Aussie and all.
I can't ever imagine going through what happened to you, and it sounds weird but I'm so very proud of you!