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Thread: Purvi Patel (33) convicted of feticide for self inducing a miscarriage

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    Moderator puzzld's Avatar
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    Purvi Patel (33) convicted of feticide for self inducing a miscarriage

    Opponents of abortion rights have repeatedly said that if the procedure were ever banned, women wouldn?t be prosecuted for having illegal abortions ? only doctors performing them would be. ?Women were not punished by the legal system before 1973?s Roe v. Wade decision and there is absolutely no drive to punish her now,? Marjorie Dannfelser, president of the anti-abortion group Susan B. Anthony List, wrote in a forum on the topic, to name one example.

    But that?s not what happened in Indiana this week, according to the prosecutors in Indiana who successfully convicted Purvi Patel of feticide and neglect of a dependent. On Monday, Patel, a 33-year-old woman living with her parents near South Bend, was sentenced to 30 years in prison. These prosecutors told msnbc that Patel had, in fact, been convicted of having an illegal abortion, which they said she had induced by pills ordered over the internet.

    Ken Cotter, the prosecuting attorney of St. Joseph?s County, said one Patel?s crimes had been flouting the state?s abortion laws.

    ?There are certain requirements that the legislature wants to make sure that you go through before an abortion is sanctified by society,? said Cotter. ?If you don?t go through those procedures, then the legislature has determined that that?s a crime.?

    In Indiana, those procedures mean making two visits to a doctor, 18 hours apart, and having an ultrasound whether you want it or not. Abortion is banned in Indiana after 20 weeks gestation. While there is dispute about how far along Patel was, she had in fact passed the 20 week mark.
    Every aspect of women?s reproductive lives becomes subject to potential criminal investigation.
    Lynn Paltrow, executive director of National Advocates for Pregnant Women

    Patel showed up bleeding at a hospital after depositing what she said was a stillbirth in a dumpster. The prosecution presented email evidence that Patel had ordered pills from China typically used by a doctor to induce an abortion early in pregnancy, as well as text messages between Patel and her friend discussing taking the pills. Her lawyer has maintained that the state never proved the delivery was caused by the pills, and that a toxicology report did not show them in Patel?s system.

    Women?s rights advocates say the feticide charge was never intended to apply to the pregnant woman herself, but this is the second time in recent memory Indiana has brought criminal charges against a woman for ending her own pregnancy. Bei Bei Shuai, a Chinese immigrant, was charged in 2011 with feticide after she tried to commit suicide while eight months pregnant. In 2013, Shuai pled guilty to a lesser charge, but she had already spent over a year in jail.

    Lynn Paltrow, executive director of National Advocates for Pregnant Women, said Patel?s case is the first time a feticide law has been used to charge a woman for an an attempted self abortion. ?The entire case is based on the presumption that there?s a role for the criminal justice system in overseeing one?s pregnancy and decisions about pregnancy,? said Paltrow. ?Every aspect of women?s reproductive lives becomes subject to potential criminal investigation.?

    Indiana originally ramped up its felony feticide charge ? strengthening both the penalty and stages in pregnancy to which it applies ? in response to a plea from a bank teller who had been shot in a robbery while pregnant with twins, both of which she eventually lost.

    Prosecuting pregnant women themselves was not part of the public discussion when the feticide law was being considered. But Cotter and chief deputy prosecutor Mark Roule, who handled Patel?s case, repeatedly said in an msnbc interview that the charge of feticide was, in fact, an illegal abortion charge.

    ?A more accurate title would be ?unlawful termination of pregnancy,?? Cotter said.

    The criminal justice system got involved in Patel?s case when one of the doctors who examined her at the Catholic hospital she went to for her hemorrhaging called the police. That doctor, Kelly McGuire, who had previously testified in support of anti-abortion laws and is a member of an anti-abortion doctors? group, then did something unusual: He went out looking with the police for what he thought was a baby. (McGuire declined comment.) After the remains were found in a dumpster, Patel would continually be referred to as ?mom of baby found in dumpster? in the local press.

    RELATED: The next wave of abortion restrictions is here

    Patel?s attorney, Jeff Sanford, argued at trial that Patel lived with her highly traditional Indian immigrant family who would have disapproved of her having premarital sex. That was why Patel had hidden the pregnancy from them and didn?t call for their help after her delivery, which then contributed to her conviction on the second charge, neglect of a dependent. That cultural context, Sanford implied, was why Patel felt she had no choice but to try to end the pregnancy in secret.

    But Roule, the prosecutor, dismissed that argument, saying abortion clinics are required to abide by federal patient privacy laws. ?People can get abortions without a lot of people knowing,? he told msnbc.

    Abortion rights activists are highly skeptical of that claim, particularly in Patel?s case. ?That abortion clinic in South Bend is always protested,? said Sue Ellen Braunlin, co-president of the Indiana Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice, who attended parts of Patel?s trial.

    ?This is Notre Dame land. There is a lot of stigma,? Braunlin said, referring to the Catholic university that is South Bend?s biggest employer.

    Sanford, Patel?s attorney, tried to get the case dismissed by arguing that a woman who had been pregnant couldn?t be tried under the feticide law, but the judge rejected it. The law makes an exception for abortions performed that comply with existing law, but there is nothing in the Indiana law that explicitly states a pregnant woman can?t be prosecuted for harming her fetus.

    ?If the legislature would have intended not to have it apply to the mother or the person who is pregnant, they very easily could have included that language,? Cotter, the prosecutor, said. He added, ?I don?t make the laws.?

    Of course, a prosecutor does have discretion about what kinds of charges to bring in what context. ?That?s a discretion that we have to go pretty carefully with, because otherwise I?m making the choice of the legislature,? Cotter said.

    Sanford, who said his client will appeal, also argues that the second charge against Patel ? neglect of a dependent ? contradicts the first, feticide. If Patel was convicted of having an abortion ? leading to fetal demise ? how could she have neglected a living dependent?

    Prosecutors said their reading of the law is that feticide could also include inducing a premature delivery, followed by that neglect after birth. And the jury agreed.

    Paltrow and other advocates argue that such laws create a slippery slope, where every ambivalent woman with a problematic pregnancy outcome is subject to criminal suspicion. Her organization has represented women in other states who are prosecuted in connection with miscarriages or stillbirths often linked by law enforcement to drug use or refusing to have a caesarean.

    Patel?s case comes as the specter of illegal or inaccessible abortion in the United States is no longer so abstract. According to search records presented at her trial, Patel had visited the site of Women on Waves, a Dutch activist group for women in countries where abortion is illegal whose website provides information on reducing the risks of self-inducing abortion. The group doesn?t recommend such measures in the United States: ?Women who live in a country where they have the possibility to have a safe and legal abortion, should go to a doctor,? it says on its site.

    But Patel wouldn?t be the first American woman to seek out such information online. Last year, a Pennsylvania mother was sentenced to up to 18 months in prison for ordering the pills for her teenage daughter. The woman said there was no clinic nearby. In another case, Jennie McCormack of Idaho was prosecuted under the state?s 20 week abortion ban, before the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals said the law itself was unconstitutional.

    Some abortion rights activists in border areas of Texas, where legal abortion clinics have been shuttered by state law, have also been sharing information with women on self-inducing abortion. They are seeking to make safer a practice that has become commonplace in Latin America. There, abortion is broadly banned, but misoprostol, one of the two pills used in a standard medication abortion early in pregnancy, is readily available as ulcer medication in pharmacies. In south Texas, such pharmacies, just across the Mexican border, are often closer and more accessible than legal abortion clinics.

    Taking misoprostol is safer than other methods women have used to try to end their pregnancies, often through sharp objects or blunt force. But if Patel did take the pills, as the prosecution successfully argued, she learned the hard way, taking the pills later in pregnancy without a doctor?s supervision can be dangerous. In her case, that danger wasn?t just medical; unless she prevails on appeal, prosecutors have seen to it that she will pay with the next decades of her life.

    http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/how-india...-targets-women
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    What do you care? Boston Babe 73's Avatar
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    Indiana is becoming a real Bible Thumping State lately.
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    senior cunt emmieslost's Avatar
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    this shit makes me fucking rage so hard.

    as a nursing student it is beat into my head that my job is to be compassionate for everyone. don't agree with abortion? well, suck it up because you will care for patients who have had one and your job is to treat them like anyone else, without judgement. fuck this doctor, his practice is supposed to support his patient, even if he doesn't agree with her morally. it is not his place to pass judgement.

    abortion may be legal, but it is inaccessible in the majority of counties in this country. abortion doesn't go away by making it inaccessible or even illegal.

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    Senior Member u2addict's Avatar
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    I love South Bend, I lived there years ago. Ugh.

    Fibro Fog has taken over. I am in a constant state of dyscognition so please excuse my retardation.
    'The worst things in the world are justified by belief'- Raised by Wolves SOI

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    Senior Member marycontrary's Avatar
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    I remember watching a Phil Donahue show years ago when there was a case that could potentially overturn roe v wade. On the show, he had a group of women who made a home made device for menstrual extractions and were teaching other women how to perform early abortions on each other in the event abortion became illegal. I'm sure this gal took cytotec, which is a drug for ulcers, but has a off label use for inducing labor. There will never be an end to abortion, women will find a way and so desperately want to end their pregnancies that they will risk their own lives and reproductive health to do so. Those fundamentalist politicians should take note of this

    "Cursed be the day on which I was born! The day when my mother bore me, let it not be blessed! Cursed be the man who brought the news to my father, 'A son is born to you', making him very glad. Let that man be like the cities which the Lord overthrew without pity; let him hear a cry in the morning and an alarm at noon, because he did not kill me in the womb; so my mother would have been my grave, and her womb for ever great." (Jeremiah 20:14-17)
    And in fact Numbers 5:11-31 give instructions for inducing a biblical abortion which was performed by priests on women who cheated on their husbands and became pregnant. if the woman is guilty (had sex with someone besides her husband), then the bitter water will make her unable to have children in the future. And if she is pregnant at the time, it will abort the pregnancy.

    And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people. And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed. This is the law of jealousies, when a wife goeth aside to another instead of her husband, and is defiled; Or when the spirit of jealousy cometh upon him, and he be jealous over his wife, and shall set the woman before the LORD, and the priest shall execute upon her all this law. Then shall the man be guiltless from iniquity, and this woman shall bear her iniquity.5:27-31
    It's all part of God's wondrous Law of Jealousies. God's magical abortion procedure. A priest, some bitter water, and a wife that you think might have been unfaithful. Priceless. So if God has his own abortion procedure, abortion can't be wrong, right?

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    senior cunt emmieslost's Avatar
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    if you look back in history, even the catholic church hasn't always been against abortion. it's all smoke and mirrors anyway.

    the article mentions cytotec (misoprostol).

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    Senior Member marycontrary's Avatar
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    There have been cases of guys slipping cytotec into their pregnant girlfriends drink to induce a miscarriage. I bet they got less time than this gal did with her illegal abortion.

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    Senior Member Queena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marycontrary View Post
    I remember watching a Phil Donahue show years ago when there was a case that could potentially overturn roe v wade. On the show, he had a group of women who made a home made device for menstrual extractions and were teaching other women how to perform early abortions on each other in the event abortion became illegal. I'm sure this gal took cytotec, which is a drug for ulcers, but has a off label use for inducing labor. There will never be an end to abortion, women will find a way and so desperately want to end their pregnancies that they will risk their own lives and reproductive health to do so. Those fundamentalist politicians should take note of this



    And in fact Numbers 5:11-31 give instructions for inducing a biblical abortion which was performed by priests on women who cheated on their husbands and became pregnant. if the woman is guilty (had sex with someone besides her husband), then the bitter water will make her unable to have children in the future. And if she is pregnant at the time, it will abort the pregnancy.



    It's all part of God's wondrous Law of Jealousies. God's magical abortion procedure. A priest, some bitter water, and a wife that you think might have been unfaithful. Priceless. So if God has his own abortion procedure, abortion can't be wrong, right?
    I've never read this before. Thanks Mary! Indiana is the new Mississippi.

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    Moderator bowieluva's Avatar
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    What the fuck is wrong with Indiana right now?

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    Senior Member marycontrary's Avatar
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    All that bible study has really helped my transition to being a non-believer. I had read the entire bible when I was in high school and trying hard to be a good christian and trying to get that filled with the lord feeling they all talked about. I read it again when I began to lean towards it being a bunch of hooey. I prayed the whole time I read it for the second time, for god to guide me in my journey. I suppose it is gods will for me to abandon the whole thing. Perhaps the Calvinists have it right and that your spiritual convictions are planned by god when you were born. He simply did not pick me to be a believer.

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    Cousin Greg Angiebla's Avatar
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    Neglect of a defendant? What a bullshit charge.

    This girls sentence could be 30 years in jail? People who murder actual people get less time.

    "The love for all living creatures is the most noble attribute of man" -Charles Darwin

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    Senior Member queenaevadamthng's Avatar
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    Hey, Indiana...

    This story doesn't even make sense. Reminds me of the story of the guy that was going to get executed, he attempts suicide, they rush him to the hospital, revive him, then take him back to the prison and execute him.


    "Theoretical physics can prove that an elephant can hang from a cliff with its tail tied to a daisy. But use your eyes, your common sense".... JIM GARRISON

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    What do you care? Boston Babe 73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    What the fuck is wrong with Indiana right now?
    It's laying the foundation for the rest of the Country. We're becoming a new and improved "Chistian Family Values" nation with a gun strapped to one hip and 15 babies strapped to the other. Crack out the "Sweet Tea" and "Deb Parties" and if you aren't white and conservative and believe in equality, you're just along for the ride.

    I'm so done with 'Murica.
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    Senior Member marycontrary's Avatar
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    And as a Christian nation we must start bombing the fuck out of the middle east. I do not understand how women can vote republican.

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    What do you care? Boston Babe 73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marycontrary View Post
    And as a Christian nation we must start bombing the fuck out of the middle east. I do not understand how women can vote republican.
    Both parties have the same agenda. I hate them both.
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    That is too pretty to be shoved up an ass.
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    You can take those Fleets and shove them up your ass



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    Senior Member queenaevadamthng's Avatar
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    Sorry but I ain't never going to conform to this way of thinking. Call me a crunchy granola bleeding heart liberal. Bullshit is bullshit.

    A person can go to church, preach the gospel and sing "Glory hallelujah" all damn day. That don't make them a Christian any more than hanging out all day at McDonald's makes a person a hamburger.

    People talk about the soldiers of the Inquisition and the Holocaust being some deviant, evil muthers, we aren't too far from that with some of these zealots. If they had it their way, anyone who didn't share their opinions would be wiped out.


    "Theoretical physics can prove that an elephant can hang from a cliff with its tail tied to a daisy. But use your eyes, your common sense".... JIM GARRISON

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    Moderator bowieluva's Avatar
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    I can't wait for the west coast to break away and become a utopia.

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    Senior Member marycontrary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    I can't wait for the west coast to break away and become a utopia.
    No shit, California has legislation that keeps abortion legal even if Roe V Wade get overturned.

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    What do you care? Boston Babe 73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marycontrary View Post
    No shit, California has legislation that keeps abortion legal even if Roe V Wade get overturned.
    The only thing we need is to legalize pot now. We aren't TOO liberal here either. A large portion of the population is made up of rich white people, remember.
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    That is too pretty to be shoved up an ass.
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    Senior Member kevansvault's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marycontrary View Post
    And as a Christian nation we must start bombing the fuck out of the middle east. I do not understand how women can vote republican.
    ,

    Because women's don't uses their brainses. Or, more likely they .are ignofuck "one issue" voters. They believe any and everything that Faux News spews, despite the fact that it is nothing more than an op/ed television show with nothing to back up their claims.

    Women seem just to go with the flow. My cousins and my aunt are this type of stupid. All are college graduates, one a business owner, the other a professional in HR, my aunt retired. All are conservative (and prejudiced as hell), believing "blacks" to be the ruin of this country. I have eaten their ass on fb in the past and will gladly do so again if the opportunity presents itself.

    But conservative women, in general, are completely buttfuckingly ignorant of the issues. They believe, part and parcel, everything that their conservative friends share on fb, in play groups. Just the other day I had to school someone on a B.O. meme that took what the President said completely out of context and made him sound as if he were saying that Muslims had a part in founding this nation.

    People are stupid - that's the law I live by. Until proven otherwise, people are dumb as fucking bricks.

    We have all the facts, truths, and discoveries ever found and posted on the internet available to us on demand IN OUR HANDS and yet these people are determined to be ignorant. Ignorance isn't bliss, and it's ruining this goddamn country. Because fuck Conservative America. The True Traitors. Find them calling your President a Kenyan Muslim, a n---, and any other derrogatory name you can think of...that's what they do. That's who they are deep down in places they never speak of.

    And they disgust the fuck out of me.

    _____________________

    As for poor Purvi Patel, I hate that she had to resort to doing what she did. I didn't read the entire case but if she was prevented in any way from obtaining a legal abortion prior to the 20 weeks, then the people responsible for that should be in jail right next to her.

    This is a miscarriage all right. A miscarriage of justice for a pregnant woman.
    Don't like what I have to say? I respect that. Go fuck yourself.

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    senior cunt emmieslost's Avatar
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    i went looking for abortion providers in the south bend area and found this:

    http://abortiondocs.org/clinic/surgical/278/

    they misspelled the name of the clinic. more than once.

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    Senior Member Defy Gravity's Avatar
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    I snipped this:
    Quote Originally Posted by kevansvault View Post
    ,


    But conservative women, in general, are completely buttfuckingly ignorant of the issues. They believe, part and parcel, everything that their conservative friends share on fb, in play groups. Just the other day I had to school someone on a B.O. meme that took what the President said completely out of context and made him sound as if he were saying that Muslims had a part in founding this nation.

    As for poor Purvi Patel, I hate that she had to resort to doing what she did. I didn't read the entire case but if she was prevented in any way from obtaining a legal abortion prior to the 20 weeks, then the people responsible for that should be in jail right next to her.

    This is a miscarriage all right. A miscarriage of justice for a pregnant woman.
    Sadly, I agree with this. I have a lot of friends who are very, very conservative Christian women and they don't even try to explore what is going on. (The same can be said for many men but the focus of my post is on women). When I point out to them what is untrue about what they are saying or posting and the resources in which they can learn more - unbiased resources- they *choose* to not learn more. I can not understand that way of thinking.
    I can not understand the way of thinking of Christian women who will cherry pick Bible verses to back up their cause of the moment but refuse to look at other Bible verses that they should be applying to their lives too. It does so much damage to my faith and it makes me so very angry.

    Anyway, this woman being charged for this is a travesty. Even though she ordered the drugs she did not have them in her system. Had she given birth to this exceedingly premature baby in the hospital would it not be her choice to withhold treatment? It should be. She was 23 weeks pregnant, that is 10-35% chance of viability and that should be up to the parent what steps are taken. IIRC most NICU's don't provide care at that stage anyway. So again, why is she being charged? If legally this woman can give birth in a hospital and its not murder there then why is it murder if she does it at home? That is bullshit.

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    Senior Member Defy Gravity's Avatar
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    This is a great article on this case. This case makes me so angry.
    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...ung_float.html

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    Senior Member kevansvault's Avatar
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    She's being charged because America hates women, and pregnant women especially. If these dumb twats (conservative women) would wake up, they'd see that. But we live in America, Land of the Free, Home of the most ignorant vagina owners on the planet.

    They aren't smart enough to understand that their rights as humans are being violated, and that is just plain fucking sad.
    Don't like what I have to say? I respect that. Go fuck yourself.

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    Moderator bowieluva's Avatar
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    I wouldn't limit it to conservative women. Plenty of dumb ass conservative men. The women go with the flow because they've been raised to believe that nothing is more important than pleasing men and validating their opinions.

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