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Thread: Jacob and Sarah (2 & 3) missing, but paranoid schizophrenic mother Catherine Hoggle says they are safe

  1. #26
    Senior Member Nic B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    A hotel? A bank? She's not breaking in somewhere, just meandering around.
    Oh, just looks like the place is totally deserted. Not one other person is seen in the video, and it looks like it was taken around 4:30 am, so I assumed they weren't supposed to be open.


    Quote Originally Posted by marakisses View Post
    yes i said i will leave it under you storage he said cuddle with me i said shut up it over??? what am i doing wrong??

  2. #27
    Moderator bowieluva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nic B View Post
    Oh, just looks like the place is totally deserted. Not one other person is seen in the video, and it looks like it was taken around 4:30 am, so I assumed they weren't supposed to be open.
    Probably a skid row hotel. There are a lot of places where the people running the desk stay in the back at night unless someone rings the bell for them, but the doors are open.

  3. #28
    Senior Member poppy213's Avatar
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    Catherine Hoggle Case: Police Now Pursuing Homicide Charges

    Update 2:55 p.m. - Catherine Hoggle, the Clarksburg woman who was found Friday night after disappearing Sept. 8 along with her two young children, is being held on a $1 million-plus bond as investigators continue the search for her missing children.

    Police Captain Darren Francke said in a press conference this morning that police are beginning to build a homicide case against Hoggle.
    (snipped)
    Hoggle and Turner?s third child, Clint, 5, is safe, according to police.
    TIMELINE
    Sept. 8: 8 p.m. ? Troy Turner, Hoggle?s husband, contacted police to report Hoggle and their two children are missing. The family, along with Hoggle?s father, Randy Hoggle, lives in the 12200 block of Elm Forest Court in Clarksburg. Turner told police the following series of events:

    Randy Hoggle drove Jacob and Sarah to Catherine?s mother?s house in Gaithersburg at 1 p.m. Sept. 7.
    Catherine Hoggle picked up Jacob from her mother?s house and told her mother she is going to take him for pizza. Catherine returned to her mother?s house three hours later without Jacob and told her mother she took Jacob to a friend?s house. Police later determined Jacob was never taken to the friend?s house.
    Around 5:50 a.m. Sept. 8 Catherine left with Sarah and told her husband she took the girl to a daycare center. At 8:30 a.m. Catherine returned home and told Turner she dropped both children off at the day care center.
    At 11 a.m., Turner took Catherine to a medical appointment and afterwards asked to pick up the children, but Catherine wouldn?t tell him where they were located. At this time, Turner said he was going to go to police, but before doing so, the two stopped at the Chick-fil-A in Germantown. At the restaurant, Hoggle slipped out the backdoor and disappeared, sparking a police search for her as well as the children.

    Sept. 9: 4:30 a.m. ? Surveillance video captured Catherine Hoggle in the area of Interstate 270 and the Germantown Commons shopping center. Her children were not with her.

    Sept. 9-12 ? Police searched areas of northern Montgomery County as part of an organized, systematic search for Hoggle and her children, but find nothing.

    Sept. 12: 11:18 p.m.: ? Police located Catherine Hoggle as she walked in the area of Century Boulevard and Crystal Rock Drive in Germantown after receiving a call from a resident who said her boyfriend had talked to Hoggle in that area. Her children were not with her. She was transported to police headquarters for questioning. Police said Hoggle had attempted to flee. When she was taken into custody, her hair had been cut and she had a missing persons flyer bearing photos of her and her children.

    Sept. 13 ? Police transported Hoggle to jail after charging her with two counts of child neglect as well as obstruction and hindering a criminal investigation. Hoggle told police she had been resting in the Germantown area, but would not tell police where Jacob and Sarah were located. Police also searched 16 areas in Clarksburg on Saturday, but did not find any evidence related to the case.

    Sept. 14 ? Police search eight areas in the Darnestown area with cadaver dogs but find no evidence.

    Sept. 15 ? Police updated the public on the investigation at an 11 a.m. press conference. Police said teams will continue searching today. Police also asked residents in northern Montgomery County to conduct searches of private property. Hoggle is scheduled to appear in Rockville at District Court at 1 p.m. for a bond review hearing.

    "Satisfaction of ones curiosity is one of the greatest sources of happiness in life" Linus Pauling

  4. #29
    Senior Member bermstalker's Avatar
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    Oh wow. This is terrible. Just terrible.

    I read an article on Cracked today about Schiz. It's was an eyeopener.

  5. #30
    Senior Member queenaevadamthng's Avatar
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    This is a really scary one. If they do get her in a lucid place and she realizes that she did kill them, that could be a bad thing too. She could totally shut down and they really won't find out anything. This is a sad case.


    "Theoretical physics can prove that an elephant can hang from a cliff with its tail tied to a daisy. But use your eyes, your common sense".... JIM GARRISON

  6. #31
    Senior Member blighted star's Avatar
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    I keep mixing this mother up with rebel flag bikini bitch. There are so mnany cases like this right now. Another ones just popped up down here. 2 brothers missing, dad's the suspect. Guess I should post it too if it's still unresolved,

  7. #32
    Senior Member bermstalker's Avatar
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    I snipped some of the article.

    While at the county jail, where Hoggle has been since Saturday night, medical personnel do not let inmates take prescription drugs that they arrive with, said Arthur Wallenstein, director of the Montgomery County Department of Correction and Rehabilitation. The reason: Authorities cannot be sure what the substances are.

    The jail has a 16-bed medical unit, with 24-hour nursing services and daily visits from psychiatrists and physicians. These medical personnel, in consultation with an inmate’s outside doctor, can recommend that prisoners take psychiatric medication, Wallenstein said, and provide the appropriate drugs.

    That is certainly the hope of family members and police, because it might prompt Hoggle to say what happened to her children. “She has an altered view of reality. She’s off her meds,” Turner said.

    But if a prisoner refuses to take medication, jail officials cannot force them to do so, Wallenstein said.

    As the case progresses, Hoggle could be sent to the Clifton T. Perkins Hospital, a secure psychiatric hospital. If doctors there determine that an emergency exists, which puts the patient or others at risk, they can force-medicate a patient during the emergency, said Brian Hepburn, director of Maryland’s Behavioral Health Administration, which is part of the state’s Department of Health and Mental Hygiene.http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/...5f0_story.html

    Hoggle told detectives she could call ‘Erin’ if she had her cellphone. Detectives brought her the phone, but Hoggle started deleting records from it so detectives took it back.
    “At a later part of the interview,” detectives wrote, “the defendant changed her story and stated she would like to take the detectives to the location of the children.” Police took her by car toward Germantown and she directed them to a playground, and she told them “she left her children alone at this playground and she abandoned both children.”

    But the playground claim didn’t yield any information, police said.
    Last edited by bermstalker; 09-17-2014 at 02:34 AM.

  8. #33
    Moderator bowieluva's Avatar
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    Ugh.

    My friend who formerly works at a mental hospital now works in the psych ward of a jail. I cannot believe she was admitted this long there since it's obviously the inappropriate response, but then again, I can believe it because my friend tells me stories like this all the time. People in psychotic states who are both ignored by the police, who have no empathy for mental illness, and refused by overcrowded hospitals. But we won't hear that side of the story, of course, they'll just make it sound like a PSYCHOTIC PERSON is somehow responsible for her decision making.

  9. #34
    Senior Member bermstalker's Avatar
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    Unfortunately, there is still not a lot of information.

    The dad is supporting his wife and says there is no way she would have harmed them. It's been 2 weeks and the police are just asking any business to please check their videos and see if anything is on them.
    http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/lo...276396861.html

  10. #35
    Senior Member bermstalker's Avatar
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    GERMANTOWN, Md. (WUSA9) -- The search for the missing Hoggle children is receiving some additional help from the KlaasKIDS foundation.

    KlaasKIDS was founded in 1994 by a father whose daughter was kidnapped and murdered. The foundation works to prevent crimes against children and was in Germantown helping organize the continued search efforts for Sarah and Jacob Hoggle. "The goal is always to find the children alive" Stacey Dorsey, from the Klaaskids foundation explained.

    Three-year-old Sarah and two-year-old Jacob Hoggle have been missing for almost a month after being abducted by their mother, Catherine Hoggle.

    While their father, Troy Turner, has been holding searches, he says the professional help is critical: "it's a matter of organization... there's no guess work involved anymore thanks to them."

    The search on Saturday focused on the woods around the last known locations of Sarah and Jacob. Volunteers carried GPS devices to keep track of where they were searching. The goal of the weekend's searches was to check area that may not have gotten a lot of focus during initial police searches.

    The KlaasKIDS team will be in town helping until Monday, and they are training the children's father, Troy Turner and volunteers how to continue these organized searches in the future.

    Another search is set to take place on Sunday between 9 a.m. and 4 p.m. Volunteers have to have government issued ID, be at least 18, and have appropriate clothing for searching in the woods.http://www.wusa9.com/story/news/loca...acob/16734789/

  11. #36
    Thanks for the update Berm, I've been checking every now and then but no new information is popping up. The more time passes, the less likely it seems she just dumped them somewhere with somebody who could be oblivious to the situation which was my best case scenario.

  12. #37
    fun hater Shins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monter View Post
    Ugh these poor babies.
    Schizophrenic parentsare just an awesome idea...
    Ew... I'm actually somewhat surprised you'd say this.

    My uncle was schizo and he and my aunt managed to raise three kids very successfully. My aunt was able to manage his symptoms and he didn't start displaying dangerous behavior until the youngest was in his 20's.

    With that being said, I have no doubt the children are dead. This sounds eerily familiar to how my uncle was toward my cousins kid, once his symptoms started becoming worse, which wasn't till his 50's.. (Honestly, most of the family had no idea he was schizo until around this time, including myself.)

    My aunt and uncle babysat him often and my uncle apparently said things like "he needs to be saved". My uncle wasn't even a religious person. When the day came that he killed himself (obviously it was a surprise to the family), my aunt admitted she was thankful they weren't babysitting that day because she's convinced he would have taken the kid with him. And yes, before anyone wants to comment on why she was babysitting with a schizo in the house, she refused to for the weeks leading up because of her fear in his progressed state (but made other excuses).

    As far as the "fair" argument goes, it wouldn't be too fair to my aunt to deny her the privilege of having kids because she found out her husband was schizo. That's going down eugenics road, and I'm sure there are plenty of diagnosed and undiagnosed schizos who raise kids without killing or harming them, since this isn't like.. an epidemic.
    Last edited by Shins; 10-06-2014 at 08:19 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    Listen, if no one cares when a crazy noodle walks in and executes children with a gun, no one cares about anything.

  13. #38
    Moderator bowieluva's Avatar
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    Yeah, I mentioned before that my fiance's dad developed schizophrenia when my fiance was like 10/12, and it's pretty fucking tragic. His father disappeared on the Pacific Crest Trail about a decade ago and has been declared dead. Very painful for him and extremely unresolved, but he loved the shit out of his dad.

    Mental illness is not something that can be easily predicted in everyone.

  14. #39
    senior cunt emmieslost's Avatar
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    holy shit. that is heart breaking. now i want to give your fiance a big hug.

  15. #40
    Senior Member animosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shins View Post
    Ew... I'm actually somewhat surprised you'd say this.

    My uncle was schizo and he and my aunt managed to raise three kids very successfully. My aunt was able to manage his symptoms and he didn't start displaying dangerous behavior until the youngest was in his 20's.

    With that being said, I have no doubt the children are dead. This sounds eerily familiar to how my uncle was toward my cousins kid, once his symptoms started becoming worse, which wasn't till his 50's.. (Honestly, most of the family had no idea he was schizo until around this time, including myself.)

    My aunt and uncle babysat him often and my uncle apparently said things like "he needs to be saved". My uncle wasn't even a religious person. When the day came that he killed himself (obviously it was a surprise to the family), my aunt admitted she was thankful they weren't babysitting that day because she's convinced he would have taken the kid with him. And yes, before anyone wants to comment on why she was babysitting with a schizo in the house, she refused to for the weeks leading up because of her fear in his progressed state (but made other excuses).

    As far as the "fair" argument goes, it wouldn't be too fair to my aunt to deny her the privilege of having kids because she found out her husband was schizo. That's going down eugenics road, and I'm sure there are plenty of diagnosed and undiagnosed schizos who raise kids without killing or harming them, since this isn't like.. an epidemic.
    anecdotal.

    i have a schizophrenic cousin who had twins and even though she is medicated, she lives with her mom, who doesn't allow her to be alone with the children for any length of time.

    the problem is that schizophrenics tend to hate taking their meds and will hide that they are not. there isn't any legal way to force them to do so. not only can that be dangerous physically, but it can be difficult mentally for the children who don't feel secure and stable in their home environment.

    i just think monter was trying to say that there are a host of things that could go wrong with schizophrenic parents and so perhaps, it isn't the best idea to have children when it is so difficult to care for yourself.
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  16. #41
    Moderator bowieluva's Avatar
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    Yeah the point Shins and I are making is that schizophrenia isn't always showing signs before the child is born, and it also has variations. It's not all thinking the devil is talking to you and that THEY are watching and conversing with your imaginary friends.

  17. #42
    fun hater Shins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    Yeah, I mentioned before that my fiance's dad developed schizophrenia when my fiance was like 10/12, and it's pretty fucking tragic. His father disappeared on the Pacific Crest Trail about a decade ago and has been declared dead. Very painful for him and extremely unresolved, but he loved the shit out of his dad.

    Mental illness is not something that can be easily predicted in everyone.
    That's terribly sad. But exactly... like you said, he loved his dad because he was probably a great dad outside of his illness. As was my uncle.

    It's incredibly nasty and unfair to say schizo people shouldn't have kids. My cousins don't regret having him for a father, nor do I for having him for an uncle. I'm proud to have had him in my life and for the things he taught me, both during his life and after his death.

    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    Yeah the point Shins and I are making is that schizophrenia isn't always showing signs before the child is born, and it also has variations. It's not all thinking the devil is talking to you and that THEY are watching and conversing with your imaginary friends.
    This.. I'm disappointed this is even a point of "debate".
    Last edited by Shins; 10-06-2014 at 09:31 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    Listen, if no one cares when a crazy noodle walks in and executes children with a gun, no one cares about anything.

  18. #43
    Senior Member animosity's Avatar
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    of course some people have kids first and find out later. i'm not saying that those people should have their children taken away, but i am saying that it is not ok to go on, business as usual, once you receive the diagnosis.

    i'd like to think a lucid parent would understand that it is important to take the meds and go to therapy to make sure they don't harm their kids, but from what i hear, being on the meds sucks balls and it's very tempting to miss a dose to feel a little better and then continue not taking them because you don't want to go back feeling shitty. like a reverse drug addict.

    i've also heard of people not taking the meds because they feel like they are bad parents without them (tired, sluggish, unobservant, withdrawn, non participatory).

    shins and bowie, it sounds like what you guys are talking about are parents who were pretty unaffected throughout the children's critical years - at least throughout the helpless stages. children who are older are a lot more resilient and have the ability to fight back or and seek help if needed.

    i will agree that management depends on the severity but the illness tends to progress and management usually becomes more difficult, not less.
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  19. #44
    Senior Member puzzld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by animosity View Post
    of course some people have kids first and find out later. i'm not saying that those people should have their children taken away, but i am saying that it is not ok to go on, business as usual, once you receive the diagnosis.
    And it's not just mental illness... before you have a child you should look at your circumstances. Do I have some illness or condition that will measurably impact my ability to raise my child? Or do i carry something that will if passed on measurablely impact my child's quality of life? That not to say you should prevent the stage 4 cancer patient from procreating, but the prospective parent needs to make provisions for the probability that she won't be around to care for her kid. The mentally ill parent presents special challenges because they may not be able to reliably assess their own fitness. But it's a hard thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    lol at Nestle being some vicious smiter, she's the nicest person on this site besides probably puzzld. Or at least the last person to resort to smiting.
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  20. #45
    fun hater Shins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by animosity View Post
    of course some people have kids first and find out later. i'm not saying that those people should have their children taken away, but i am saying that it is not ok to go on, business as usual, once you receive the diagnosis.

    i'd like to think a lucid parent would understand that it is important to take the meds and go to therapy to make sure they don't harm their kids, but from what i hear, being on the meds sucks balls and it's very tempting to miss a dose to feel a little better and then continue not taking them because you don't want to go back feeling shitty. like a reverse drug addict.

    i've also heard of people not taking the meds because they feel like they are bad parents without them (tired, sluggish, unobservant, withdrawn, non participatory).

    shins and bowie, it sounds like what you guys are talking about are parents who were pretty unaffected throughout the children's critical years - at least throughout the helpless stages. children who are older are a lot more resilient and have the ability to fight back or and seek help if needed.

    i will agree that management depends on the severity but the illness tends to progress and management usually becomes more difficult, not less.
    They were unaffected because they managed his illness.... As I assume most schizo parents do successfully since there isn't this overwhelming boatload of cases where statistically "85% of schizo parents kill their kids" or something of the like.

    The original argument was that schizo parents shouldnt have kids because of how they'll traumatize their kids and it's "unfair" to them, and so far you have two examples in me and Bowie where that's not true at all. So far it's just a bunch of speculation that people wont take their meds, etc...

    My uncle was always schizophrenic, but they didn't know that until after they were married. So that means my aunt shouldn't have kids because her husband was diagnosed?

    Are we only looking at schizophrenics? How about all the other mental illnesses, addictions, and terminal illnesses people get. Let's make it so they can't have kids because the kids might have a bad time and that's unfair.

    holy fucking shit.
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    Listen, if no one cares when a crazy noodle walks in and executes children with a gun, no one cares about anything.

  21. #46
    Moderator bowieluva's Avatar
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    This case is getting headlines because it's unusual. To make a generalization about how most schizophrenic parents don't take their meds is not only absurd and baseless, it's also disproven by the fact that you don't hear about schizophrenic parents killing their kids often. You hear about stupid, selfish people killing their kids all the time.

    In my opinion, a mental illness that's being treated makes for a much more preferable parent than someone suffering from a personality disorder. I know way more people whose lives have been fucked up by sociopaths and narcissists than schizophrenics.

  22. #47
    Senior Member animosity's Avatar
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    let me see if i can put this in a way that won't gross shins out. puzz may have to interpret for me

    i believe schizophrenic people should think long and hard about the implications of raising children with their illnesses in the same way people with other mental health disorders, cognitive deficiencies and motor impairments should: how might my condition impair my ability to care for, interact with, and ultimately raise a child? how strong is my support system if i cannot accommodate my condition in these responsibilities?

    i think the same goes for anyone who has had an accident that caused substantial brain damage, paralysis or other severe impairments to the body or brain. also for people with terminal illnesses - not because i would be afraid of passing the trait on but because raising a child to adulthood successfully is the very first and most important point of reproduction.

    this is not a based in eugenics opinion, i just think that responsible parenting begins at the decision to have a child. you owe it to the kid to give at least a little thought about what the future has in store for it.

    coincidentally, i feel the very same way about people with no impairments, just the same.

    i'm not talking about people who were diagnosed after becoming parents, although i think those people should (and probably do) take the diagnosis into account when planning their future and that of their kids.
    Last edited by animosity; 10-06-2014 at 01:03 PM.
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  23. #48
    Moderator bowieluva's Avatar
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    I think everyone who is going to have a child should think long and hard before having one.

    Again, this is a very unusual case. We don't hear about schizophrenic parents losing kids all the time.

  24. #49
    It was aliens raisedbywolves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by animosity View Post
    anecdotal.

    i have a schizophrenic cousin who had twins and even though she is medicated, she lives with her mom, who doesn't allow her to be alone with the children for any length of time.

    the problem is that schizophrenics tend to hate taking their meds and will hide that they are not. there isn't any legal way to force them to do so. not only can that be dangerous physically, but it can be difficult mentally for the children who don't feel secure and stable in their home environment.

    i just think monter was trying to say that there are a host of things that could go wrong with schizophrenic parents and so perhaps, it isn't the best idea to have children when it is so difficult to care for yourself.
    I'm just thinking about the genetics aspects of it. Obviously if you don't know you have it before you have kids, then what is done is done. However since the genetic link in schizophrenia is so high, why would you want to possibly pass it on to your kids?

  25. #50
    Superomnininjamember Monter's Avatar
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    Um...ok. Im going to be calm and say you are talking out your ass shins.
    Of course not all schizophrenics are the same. When you have seen the damage a seriously mentally ill person can do to children, you side with the children.

    I could tell you horror stories you would not wish on your worst fucking enemy. You cant believe this is a debate? Go watch a delusional person try and parent a small chi;d and watch what fucking happens.
    You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.- D. Moynihan
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