Hinky.
Hinky.
The pro-Moscow rebels have been shooting down Ukrainian aircraft down all week. If they shot down this plane ... because they're shooting down everything that comes their way ... I just don't consider that a "mistake."
Long story but very informative ...
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...0FM22N20140717
(Reuters) - A Malaysian airliner was brought down in eastern Ukraine on Thursday, killing all 295 people aboard and sharply raising the stakes in a conflict between Kiev and pro-Moscow rebels that has set Russia and the West at daggers drawn.
As the United States said the Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur was "blown out of the sky", probably by a ground-launched missile, Ukraine and Russia traded accusations of blame, cranking up global pressure for a way out of a bloody local conflict that risks fueling a new Cold War.
Ukraine accused pro-Moscow militants, aided by Russian military intelligence officers, of firing a long-range, Soviet-era SA-11 ground-to-air missile. Leaders of the rebel Donetsk People's Republic denied any involvement and said a Ukrainian air force jet had brought down the intercontinental flight.
But separatists have said that they took control of such a missile system last month and had used it to shoot down a Ukrainian military transport plane that was destroyed on Monday.
The scale of the disaster, which left scores of unsuspecting foreigners, adults and children, strewn lifeless across the muddy Ukrainian steppe, could prove a turning point for international pressure to resolve the crisis. It has killed hundreds in since protests toppled the Moscow-backed president in Kiev in February and Russia annexed the Crimea a month later.
The United Nations Security Council plans an emergency meeting on Ukraine on Friday, diplomats said. U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon urged a full international investigation.
Reuters journalists saw burning and charred wreckage bearing the red and blue Malaysia insignia and dozens of bodies strewn in fields near the village of Hrabove, 40 km (25 miles) from the Russian border near the rebel-held regional capital of Donetsk.
More than half of the dead, 154 people, were Dutch. Another 27 were Australian and 23 Malaysian.
The Ukrainian government, condemning an act of "terrorism", released recordings it said were of Russian intelligence officers discussing the shooting down of a civilian airliner by rebels who may have mistaken it for a Ukrainian military plane.
Russian President Vladimir Putin pinned the blamed on Kiev for renewing its offensive against the rebels two weeks ago after a ceasefire failed to hold. The Kremlin leader called it a "tragedy" but did not say who brought the Boeing down.
U.S. Vice President Joe Biden said the jet was "blown out of the sky" and a U.S. official said that, while its origin was unclear, a surface-to-air missile was probably responsible.
After the downing of several Ukrainian military aircraft in the area in recent months, including two this week, Kiev had accused Russian forces of playing a direct role. International air lanes had remained open, though only above 32,000 feet. The Malaysia plane was flying 1,000 feet higher, officials said.
U.S. President Barack Obama said it was unclear whether Americans were aboard. A Ukrainian official said there were 23.
As word came in of what Ukraine's Western-backed president called a "terrorist attack", Obama was on the phone with Putin, discussing a new round of economic sanctions that Washington and its EU partners imposed to try to force Putin to do more to curb the revolt against the Western-backed government in Kiev.
They noted the early reports during their telephone call, the White House said, adding that Obama warned of further sanctions if Moscow did not change course in Ukraine.
WRECKAGE, BODIES
Malaysia Airlines said air traffic controllers lost contact with flight MH-17 in the afternoon as it flew over eastern Ukraine towards the Russian border, bound for Asia with 280 passengers and 15 crew aboard. Flight tracking data indicated it was at its cruising altitude of 33,000 feet when it disappeared.
That would be beyond the range of smaller rockets used by the rebels to bring down helicopters and other low-flying Ukrainian military aircraft - but not of the SA-11 system which a Ukrainian official accused Russia of supplying to the rebels.
Separatists have been quoted in Russian media saying they had acquired one. One group was quoted as saying that it used an SA-11 on Monday to bring down an Antonov An-26 turboprop plane - a loss that the Ukrainian forces had confirmed this week along with the downing of a Sukhoi Su-25 fighter on Wednesday.
"I was working in the field on my tractor when I heard the sound of a plane and then a bang," one local man at told Reuters at Hrabove, known in Russian as Grabovo. "Then I saw the plane hit the ground and break in two. There was thick black smoke."
An emergency worker said at least 100 bodies had been found so far and that debris was spread over 15 km (9 miles). People were scouring the area for the black box flight recorders and separatists were later quoted as saying they had found one.
Kiev complained that separatists who are the main force in the area prevented Ukrainian officials from reaching the site.
Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak demanded swift justice for those responsible and said the crash site must not be interfered with before international experts had access.
"MH-17 is not an incident or catastrophe, it is a terrorist attack," Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko tweeted. He has stepped up his military campaign against the rebels since a ceasefire late last month failed to produce any negotiations.
One rebel leader, the self-styled prime minister in Donetsk, said they could agree a truce of two or three days to help with investigation of the incident.
Russia, which Western powers accuse of trying to destabilise Ukraine to maintain influence over its old Soviet empire, has accused Kiev's leaders of mounting a fascist coup. It says it is holding troops in readiness to protect Russian-speakers in the east - the same rationale it used for taking over Crimea.
Ukrainian Interior Ministry official Anton Gerashchenko said on Facebook: "Just now, over Torez, terrorists using a Buk anti-aircraft system kindly given to them by Putin have shot down a civilian airliner flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur."
The Buk - which means beech tree in Russia - is a 1970s vintage, truck-mounted, radar-guided missile system, codenamed SA-11 Gadfly by Cold War NATO adversaries. It fires a 5.7-metre (19-foot), 55-kg (110-lb) missile for up to 28 km (18 miles).
"There is no limit to the cynicism of Putin and his terrorists!" Gerashchenko wrote on the social media site. "Europe, USA, Canada, the civilised world, open your eyes! Help us in any way you can! This is a war of good against evil!"
He also published a photograph he said showed a Buk launcher in the centre of the town of Torez on Thursday. It was not possible to verify the image. On June 29, Russia's Itar-Tass news agency quoted a separatist spokesman in Donetsk as saying they had taken control of a Buk air-defence system.
REBEL ACCUSATION
The military commander of the rebels, a Russian named Igor Strelkov, had written on his social media page at 1337 GMT, that his forces had brought down an Antonov An-26 in the same area. It is a turboprop transport plane of a type used by Ukraine's forces. There was no comment on that from Ukrainian officials.
Flight MH-17 could have been in that area around that time, just over three hours after it took off from Schipol airport.
This is daily mail....and they took tons of pictures of relatives arriving at the airports- disgusting, but anyway, they say that there were around 100 kids on board.
Lots of Dutch. 20+ British, 20+ Americans.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ocial-facebook
But evrything they'd shot down before was military and Russian right? I read that either they thought it was Putin's or a military cargo plane. Either would have been directly relevant to their "cause" or whatever. Shooting down a plane full of Dutch civilians wouldn't have any strategic value, it would just bring down the wrath of every country that had citizens on that plane.
Glenn Thomas worked for the World Health Organization (WHO)
https://www.facebook.com/glenn.thomaswork
Passenger of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 Cor Pan took this photo of the plane and posted it to Facebook before boarding. It's a chilling message written in Dutch that says "In case it disappears, this is what it looks like."
From Twitter:
Latest #MH17 passenger manifest details from Malaysian Airlines. 41 passengers unverified. All 15 crew from #Malaysia
The separatist rebels are pro-Russia and anti-Ukraine. They have been shooting down Ukrainian aircraft all week (for several months, actually). And, one Ukrainian aircraft was very recently shot down by another aircraft ... the rebels don't have aircraft ... but Russia does. Here's an Associated Press story about that (yes it's on the Fox site but it's an AP story that popped up when I did a news search): http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/07...russian-plane/. A far as I know, Russia has had nothing shot down.
According to the long Reuters article I posted earlier, not long after the Malaysian Airlines jet went down, the rebel leader posted on social media that the rebels had shot down a Ukrainian plane in that area ... then promptly deleted it.
So what we have is a bunch of separatist rebel dudes with a REALLY big anti-aircraft weapon given to them by their Russian buddies, but the rebels apparently don't have the technology to be sure what it is they're shooting at. So they're like, "Well, we don't know if we're shooting at the 'enemy' or a bunch of innocent people, but fuck it! Ready, aim ... "
Did they mean to shoot down a civilian airliner? Maybe not. Do I think they really gave a shit if they did? Nope.
(And, while I'm assuming this was done by the separatist rebels because it seems like the most likely scenario at this point, I will gladly admit I'm wrong if it turns out otherwise.)
This brief Time article has good info about the anti-aircraft weapon and the rebels' claim that they shot something down in that area: http://time.com/3001932/malaysia-air...rebels-denial/
I hope I don't sound bitchy, because that's not my intention. I'm just so disgusted about this and very upset about the loss of a bunch of innocent people. I'm sure everyone else is, too.
So the top arc for MH370 ends where?
How soon til we get serious conspiracy theories about Russia shooting it down, hiding the debris & hacking flight data to cover it up?
ETA don't worry, I know how absolutely HUGE that area is & that arc goes nowhere near Ukraine. That's probably not going to compute for the tin foil brigade though.
Last edited by blighted star; 07-17-2014 at 07:00 PM.
Claims of pro-Russian seperatists heard claiming responsibility in ph tap
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2014-0...bility/5606578
This is terrible. This could set research back years. It's possible that it's not just passengers that will die because of this act.
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2014-0...ictims/5606738
https://mobile.twitter.com/MichelSid...11799467474944
My thoughts & prayers to families of those tragically lost on flight #MH17. Many passengers were enroute to #AIDS2014 here in #Melbourne.
9:17am - 18 Jul 14
Last edited by blighted star; 07-17-2014 at 07:07 PM.
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2014-0...-issue/5606580
Oops Malaysia. I guess they don't like to err on the side of caution.
Malaysia Airlines flight MH17: International Civil Aviation Organisation says it warned of safety issue in region near where jet crashed.
The International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) says it had recently warned of a safety issue in the region near where Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was shot down.
The passenger jet was shot down by a ground-to-air missile over eastern Ukraine, killing all 298 passengers and crew. At least 27 Australians are among the dead.
The flight was en route from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur at the time and came down in rebel-held territory near Ukraine's border with Russia.
The ICAO is responsible primarily for air safety.
On April 3 it warned there was a potentially unsafe situation arising from the presence of more than one air traffic services provider in the region.
It has released a statement saying flight MH17 crashed just outside the Simferopol Flight Information Region, which had been the subject of the earlier warning.
The organisation says it stands ready to support the accident investigation upon request and has*expressed its deep regret over the loss of passengers and crew.
Earlier, Qantas released a statement saying it had flown that route in the past, "but hasn't flown it for several months".
Malaysia's prime minister Najib Razak says the aircraft's flight route was declared safe by the ICAO .
Mr Razak says the International Air Transportation Association had stated that the airspace the aircraft was traversing was not subject to restrictions.
The Malaysia Airlines European chief executive says crossing eastern Ukraine was not unusual since the area had not been classified as a war zone for aviation purposes.
Meanwhile, UK aviation security expert Chris Yates has told Radio National air traffic controllers should have warned the airliner of the danger.
"The aircraft perhaps should not have been in that area at that time and that ultimately is the fault of the air traffic control authorities, who should perhaps have warned all civil aircraft [who were] operating near the zone to avoid it if at all possible," he said
I'm just trying to come up with a reason why someone would do this horrible thing to innocent people. I take back my comment about the bodies being intact, I obviously spoke too soon.
Some of the Australians onboard (I didn't use the pic of Elaine from Melbourne Uni because they have 2 students by that name & apparently a FB RIP page was made for the wrong girl - if the got the pix there it's not her). Also, in the Rizk's pic,I'm pretty sure they meant first left, not second.
https://au.news.yahoo.com/vic/a/2449...d-crew-emerge/
Foreign minister Julie Bishop says 28 Australians died in the Malaysia Airlines plane crash over Ukraine, lifting the toll from 27.
Authorities have now confirmed nine passengers were from Victoria, nine from Queensland, seven from Western Australia, one from NSW and one from ACT.
There is no confirmation where the remaining victim was from and authorities have warned the number of Australian casualties could rise.
Others who were permanent residents in Australia but travelling on foreign passports are believed to be among the dead.
Up to 100 delegates headed for an international AIDS conference in Melbourne are also believed to be among the dead.
Here is the breakdown of the Australians on board:
Victoria: 9
Queensland: 9
Western Australia: 7
New South Wales: 1
ACT: 1
Albert (second from left) and Marie Rizk were due to return home on Friday night. Photo: Supplied.
Melbourne
Melbourne real estate agent Albert Rizk and his wife Maree Rizk are understood to have been returning to Australia on the flight, after a month-long holiday in Europe.
"He and his wife Maree were both on the flight," Hume City Councillor Jack Ogilvie told AAP on Friday.
"Last night I was talking to his son, James, and I said when are Albert and Maree coming back?"
"He said they are on the flight and they'll be home tomorrow ... but they just didn't make it."
Mr Ogilvie said the Sunbury community was in shock and he described the couple as "absolutely fantastic people".
The Rizks have lived in Sunbury for more than 20 years and Albert was a director of the local Raine and Horne Real Estate branch.
<<snipped>>
Melbourne University student Elaine Teoh, 27 has also been confirmed as a victim of the disaster.
"I would again like to express my heartfelt sympathy for the families, friends and loved ones of these victims," Premier Napthine said in a statement.
"The Victorian government will provide any assistance and support possible to the affected families."
Western Australia
Perth man Nick Norris and his three grandchildren were among seven West Australians on the Malaysia Airlines flight.
Mr Norris was a well-known member of the South Perth Yacht Club, according to reports.
His grandchildren were believed to be aged eight, 10 and 12.
The club said it would provide further information later on Friday once it was assured all family members had been informed.
<<snipped>>
New South Wales
The NSW victim on board the doomed Boeing 777 has been named as Sydney Catholic nun Sister Philomena.
NSW Premier Mike Baird said: “I offer my thoughts and prayers to the families and loved ones of those on board the Malaysia Airlines flight."
“This is a shocking and terrible tragedy which will be felt right across the world.
“On behalf of everyone in NSW I express my deep sorrow and sadness at the events.
“There is no doubt an event of this scale will affect many people in this state who will have family and friends involved with this tragedy.”
Sister Philomena
Queensland
Queensland Premier Campbell Newman threatened to break into tears as he confirmed the toll the disaster had taken on Friday.
Mr Newman said it was hard not to get emotional over the tragedy.
He said the focus now must be on supporting and assisting those who have lost loved ones.
"Today, as far as I'm concerned, is about families, friends and communities of Queensland that are affected," he said.
It has been revealed the premier's daughters both recently travelled on the same path taken by the stricken jet, one flying over just 18 hours before the tragedy.
Mr Newman said the loss of almost 300 people who were travelling like so many people do every day was shocking and appalling.
"People of my age have kids that have gone too and from Europe, it's a right of passage," he said.
"All parents would be thinking of their kids right now if they're overseas, it just brings it home to you."
Last edited by blighted star; 07-17-2014 at 11:43 PM.
Wow. What are the chances. Seriously.
A QUEENSLAND family who lost a son and daughter-in-law on flight MH370 are believed to have lost further family members on board MH17 shot down over Ukraine.
Irene and George Burrows, from Biloela in central Queensland, have been mourning the loss of son Rodney and daughter-in-law Mary aboard Malaysia Airlines flight MH370, whose final resting place still remains unclear.
Irene’s son Greg Burrows said while it was not his role to make a formal statement on behalf of the family, he said the latest loss had shocked the family deeply.
“It has been a very trying day,’’ he told The Courier Mail.
“This has just blown everyone clean out of the water.’’
http://www.news.com.au/national/burr...-1226993905493
Flight attendant Shazana Salleh
Flight attendant Azrina Binti Yakob, 41,
Flight attendant Sanjid Singh, 41
It’s an astonishing twist of fate – a Malaysian air steward is dead after swapping himself onto flight MH17, only months after his wife, who is also a steward, saved her own life by swapping herself off the missing Malaysian Airlines flight MH370.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz37oeU9R7i
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Mo Maslin, 12, (left), his brother Otis, eight, (centre) and sister Evie Maslin, 10, (right) were killed on the flight along with their grandfather Nick Morris
The pilot Choo Jin Leong
More pictures at the link
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ple-board.html
I can't stop thinking about this.
Richard Mayne 20- British- went to Leeds
(I'm just linking to his picture instead of posting it so it doesn't weight down the thread)
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/...04_470x486.jpg
Paying tribute to him on her Twitter account, yesterday Miss Mayne said: 'Thank you for all the condolences. I will never understand why our beautiful Richard was taken from us. He will remain forever loved #MH17'
Newcastle Fans: John Alder, pictured left at a Newcastle game, and Liam Sweeney, right, were football supporters who were travelling to watch Newcastle United play in New Zealand when MH17 was shot out of the skies
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/...62_470x533.jpg
Graphic pictures at this link. Just a FYI, these pictures are not blurred.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...ef=mostpopular
Last edited by bermstalker; 07-18-2014 at 04:20 AM.
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