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Thread: Cooper Harris (22 months), left by father to die in a hot car after his father researched the time it takes for a dog to die in a hot car

  1. #401
    XoXo Miller22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FemmeFatality View Post
    I read that wrong link wrong. It does say that GA doesnt classify 1st and 2nd degree murder but that it does recognize manslaughter. As far as the code, I clicked the link to lexis but I couldn't get to the actual code w/out signing in. I wondered if it was good law. Maybe the code is the proposed new code that isnt law yet.
    I got the GA code without signing into Lexis? I just had to agree. Mer.

  2. #402
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miller22 View Post
    I got the GA code without signing into Lexis? I just had to agree. Mer.
    agree to what? It takes me to a sign in page and asks me for me lexisnexis ID.

  3. #403
    XoXo Miller22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FemmeFatality View Post
    agree to what? It takes me to a sign in page and asks me for me lexisnexis ID.
    The T&C:

    http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/gacode/Default.asp

    You hit OK and it takes you the the searchable GA code in lexisnexis

  4. #404
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miller22 View Post
    The T&C:

    http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/gacode/Default.asp

    You hit OK and it takes you the the searchable GA code in lexisnexis
    OK so that link took me where I could search. When I clicked the link to the code before it took me to another screen. Lexisnexis says it is good law and I found this where it says it became effective law on 7/1/14.

    2d degree murder; conditions for acceptance of surety by sheriff; revise percentage of bond to be paid to
    surety; 2d degree murder
    Sponsor: Rep. Jay Neal
    Approved by the Governor 4/29/14; Effective 7/1/14.
    HB 271 was amended by the House to add HB 1052 (2d degree murder) to HB 271. Thus, HB 271 amends
    O.C.G.A. 16-5-1 relating to murder and felony murder by revising subsections (c) and (d) and adding a new
    subsection (e), as follows:
    "(c) A person also commits the offense of murder when, in the commission of a felony, he or she causes
    the death of another human being irrespective of malice.
    (d) A person commits the offense of murder in the second degree when, in the commission of cruelty to
    children in the second degree, he or she causes the death of another human being irrespective of malice.

    http://www.pacga.org/site/protected_...egislation.pdf

    Since this happened before July 1, 2014 Cooper will fall under the old law.

  5. #405
    XoXo Miller22's Avatar
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    So, there you have it. Best to follow posted state law code from a reliable source (suxh as lexis or tge state page.)Lawyer's websites may not be updates for months or even years. Even if multiple lawyer pages seem in sync.

    Law code is so yummy!

  6. #406
    Senior Member TupeloHoney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FemmeFatality View Post
    OK so that link took me where I could search. When I clicked the link to the code before it took me to another screen. Lexisnexis says it is good law and I found this where it says it became effective law on 7/1/14.

    2d degree murder; conditions for acceptance of surety by sheriff; revise percentage of bond to be paid to
    surety; 2d degree murder
    Sponsor: Rep. Jay Neal
    Approved by the Governor 4/29/14; Effective 7/1/14.
    HB 271 was amended by the House to add HB 1052 (2d degree murder) to HB 271. Thus, HB 271 amends
    O.C.G.A. 16-5-1 relating to murder and felony murder by revising subsections (c) and (d) and adding a new
    subsection (e), as follows:
    "(c) A person also commits the offense of murder when, in the commission of a felony, he or she causes
    the death of another human being irrespective of malice.
    (d) A person commits the offense of murder in the second degree when, in the commission of cruelty to
    children in the second degree, he or she causes the death of another human being irrespective of malice.

    http://www.pacga.org/site/protected_...egislation.pdf

    Since this happened before July 1, 2014 Cooper will fall under the old law.


    Wow ... thanks for digging that up. You rock!

    Although I'm still scratching my head about why they decided to create second degree murder in just that one instance, while everything else is still felony or malice murder (with the exception of manslaughter, of course).

    Oh well, I guess it doesn't matter much if it doesn't apply to this case.















    And to the anonymous person who sent me a bitchy rep telling me I should "use this as a lesson" and that I'm "not as smart as I think I am" simply because I wasn't aware of a new law that went into effect just 21 days ago (which allows ONE instance of second degree murder in Georgia and doesn't even apply to this case): You can piss off! And ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Not your business View Post
    I will out think the fucking pants off of you and you would thank me for helping you out of them.

  7. #407
    XoXo Miller22's Avatar
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    It's a stupid smite. Anonymous or not: Get. Over. It.

  8. #408
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    what? gah we were all learning things together. anon smiting is for cowards anyway.

  9. #409
    has supermodel tits neenerneener's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miller22 View Post
    It's a stupid smite. Anonymous or not: Get. Over. It.
    Are you the smiter?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron_NYC
    I want to kiss your lips. Both sets.
    * wow you truly are the sterial cunt here are yo not.I fuckin hate you cunt* - Loonywop
    ★ take the sig down ★ - Loonywop

  10. #410
    XoXo Miller22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neenerneener View Post
    Are you the smiter?
    Hah - Nope. I try to always sign my reps/smites when it's a nonpremie - but esp. if it's a smite - premie or not. I won't lie though, I was considering smiting TH for her post that mentions the smite. That's how much posting about smites bugs the crap out of me. And if I had, I woulda signed it.

  11. #411
    Senior Member TupeloHoney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miller22 View Post
    Hah - Nope. I try to always sign my reps/smites when it's a nonpremie - but esp. if it's a smite - premie or not. I won't lie though, I was considering smiting TH for her post that mentions the smite. That's how much posting about smites bugs the crap out of me. And if I had, I woulda signed it.

    And it would have been fine if you did. But I couldn't help but notice you chose to express your aggravation here on the thread, which is really no different from what I did, amirite?


    (And to clarify: it was a positive rep, not a smite. Nevertheless ... the novel-length, asshole comment attached to it was what irked me.)


    But I'm ready to move on! Are you?






    Quote Originally Posted by FemmeFatality View Post
    what? gah we were all learning things together. anon smiting is for cowards anyway.

    Hahaha!


    Yes, I also thought we were having a wonderfully fruitful conversation.

    I'm enjoying picking your brain and would love to know your thoughts on a couple more things.



    Assuming Ross is indicted by the grand jury (which seems likely) ... Let's say they "up" the charges. It appears to me there are basically two options:

    1) They go back to the original charges ... first degree child cruelty and felony murder. Is it correct that they will then have to prove intent/malice on the child cruelty charge (but not the felony murder, as usual)?


    2) Or, they go for malice murder, which requires proving malice/intent on the murder charge (and would definitely be entering Casey Anthony territory). The jury will have the option of finding him guilty of the child cruelty charge but innocent of murder, yes?

    Also ... would there be any other purpose for this charge unless they're going for the death penalty? I think they would be nuts to go for the death penalty, but it wouldn't shock me.



    I didn't particularly think they'd up the charges until the lawyer from the CNN editorial pointed out that, at the probable cause hearing, the prosecution seemed to present a lot of evidence showing intent, when the current charges don't require it ... it kinda got me thinking.

    IMO, they should leave the charges as they are now instead of doing something risky.
    Quote Originally Posted by Not your business View Post
    I will out think the fucking pants off of you and you would thank me for helping you out of them.

  12. #412
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    Arghh. Law code gives me a migraine.

    Isn't felony murder any murder that occurs during the commission of a felony? Eg. the infamous AZ case that JM prosecuted. Is it different in GA?

  13. #413
    Senior Member bermstalker's Avatar
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    Just surfing the news site- there are so many hot car deaths.

    A 10 mth old baby now. The foster dad was arrested.
    http://ksn.com/2014/07/24/10-month-o...nside-hot-car/

    A 20 mth old left in the car by her grandpa
    http://www.star-telegram.com/2014/07...-in-death.html

  14. #414
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    Let me first qualify this response with I am not licensed in GA & know absolutely nothing about GA law except for what I've read on this thread but here is my opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by TupeloHoney View Post
    And it would have been fine if you did. But I couldn't help but notice you chose to express your aggravation here on the thread, which is really no different from what I did, amirite?

    Assuming Ross is indicted by the grand jury (which seems likely) ... Let's say they "up" the charges. It appears to me there are basically two options:

    1) They go back to the original charges ... first degree child cruelty and felony murder. Is it correct that they will then have to prove intent/malice on the child cruelty charge (but not the felony murder, as usual)?
    According to the CNN article, they are basing the felony murder charge on 2nd degree child cruelty, which only requires them to prove negligence. I do not know what the 1st degree child cruelty charge requires.


    Quote Originally Posted by TupeloHoney View Post
    2) Or, they go for malice murder, which requires proving malice/intent on the murder charge (and would definitely be entering Casey Anthony territory). The jury will have the option of finding him guilty of the child cruelty charge but innocent of murder, yes?
    I doubt it but it all depends on whether child cruelty is a lessor included offense of murder. If it is then yes, they can opt to find him guilty of the child cruelty charge and not guilty of the murder charge. Without researching it, my gut tells me that child cruelty is not a lessor included offense of murder. That would be something for you to look up :)

    Quote Originally Posted by TupeloHoney View Post
    Also ... would there be any other purpose for this charge unless they're going for the death penalty? I think they would be nuts to go for the death penalty, but it wouldn't shock me.
    From what I've read, no. He will get a mandatory life sentence with a felony murder charge so the only reason they would want to try to prove malice is for the death penalty.


    Quote Originally Posted by The Crone View Post
    Arghh. Law code gives me a migraine.

    Isn't felony murder any murder that occurs during the commission of a felony? Eg. the infamous AZ case that JM prosecuted. Is it different in GA?
    This is probably the reason I started getting migraines after I started practicing. lol But felony murder does not occur during any felony. The underlying felony charge has to be a qualifying felony. Every state is different. The CNN article says that GA has a broad felony murder statute and that a felony only needs to be inherently dangerous to human life to qualify.

  15. #415
    XoXo Miller22's Avatar
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    Are you people kidding?! Law code is so scrumptious and delicious. Mmmmmmm. I loves it! Criminal, preferably. Contract laws is like taking a lovely shower then toweling off with sandpaper.

  16. #416
    Captain of Fuckery captainjillian's Avatar
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    A 20 mth old left in the car by her grandpa
    http://www.star-telegram.com/2014/07...-in-death.html[/QUOTE]

    This one happened in my town.


    I never try anything, I just do it. Wanna try me?

  17. #417
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    Quote Originally Posted by captainjillian View Post
    A 20 mth old left in the car by her grandpa
    http://www.star-telegram.com/2014/07...-in-death.html
    This one happened in my town. [/QUOTE]

    It seems like it's an epidemic this summer. There have been several children's deaths in this area due to left in a hot car.

  18. #418
    Moderator puzzld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FemmeFatality View Post
    This one happened in my town.
    It seems like it's an epidemic this summer. There have been several children's deaths in this area due to left in a hot car.[/QUOTE]

    It's just getting more press this year. http://www.ggweather.com/heat/
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    lol at Nestle being some vicious smiter, she's the nicest person on this site besides probably puzzld. Or at least the last person to resort to smiting.
    Quote Originally Posted by nestlequikie View Post
    Why on earth would I smite you when I can ban you?

  19. #419
    Senior Member animosity's Avatar
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    i've also heard of one story where the mother is being given massive support after leaving her children in a car during a job interview (neither kid died but she was arrested.)
    Quote Originally Posted by songbirdsong View Post
    "Say, you know who could handle this penis? MY MOTHER."

  20. #420
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    Quote Originally Posted by puzzld View Post
    It seems like it's an epidemic this summer. There have been several children's deaths in this area due to left in a hot car.
    It's just getting more press this year. http://www.ggweather.com/heat/[/QUOTE]

    Yeah that is why I said "seems." You would think that after all this press that people would stop leaving their kids in hot cars.

  21. #421
    Senior Member foreverintheflux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FemmeFatality View Post
    It's just getting more press this year. http://www.ggweather.com/heat/
    Yeah that is why I said "seems." You would think that after all this press that people would stop leaving their kids in hot cars.[/QUOTE]

    So, not technically relevant, but it reminds me of a few summers ago with my Mom. We live in the desert and she's big on having small coolers in the car to store milk or other items that need to be refrigerated-she does this so we can run errands & not worry about the groceries spoiling (at least for like an hour anyway-it was 114 yesterday). So, one day I forgot my cooler & she completely flipped and screamed that if I had a kid (I don't) I would probably leave it in a hot car to die. Um, wut? Totally the same thing, Mom.

  22. #422
    Senior Member foreverintheflux's Avatar
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    Also, I'm dumb, and didn't mean to quote FF. Sorry.

  23. #423
    Certified Grumple Bottoms Ron_NYC's Avatar
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    I dunno if this was left here yet. But it's still murder, and you're still a jackass if you do this.

    Forgetting a human being in an oven? How is this even a discussion??
    http://www.parents.com/baby/safety/c...-for-children/
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    Ron was the best part, hands down.

  24. #424
    Senior Member foreverintheflux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron_NYC View Post
    I dunno if this was left here yet. But it's still murder, and you're still a jackass if you do this.

    Forgetting a human being in an oven? How is this even a discussion??
    http://www.parents.com/baby/safety/c...-for-children/
    It's not (an accident). And, it's not a discussion. No way.

  25. #425
    Senior Member TupeloHoney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FemmeFatality View Post
    Let me first qualify this response with I am not licensed in GA & know absolutely nothing about GA law except for what I've read on this thread but here is my opinion.



    According to the CNN article, they are basing the felony murder charge on 2nd degree child cruelty, which only requires them to prove negligence. I do not know what the 1st degree child cruelty charge requires.




    I doubt it but it all depends on whether child cruelty is a lessor included offense of murder. If it is then yes, they can opt to find him guilty of the child cruelty charge and not guilty of the murder charge. Without researching it, my gut tells me that child cruelty is not a lessor included offense of murder. That would be something for you to look up :)

    OK I looked up the first degree child cruelty charge.


    From the Georgia Code on LexisNexis:

    ? 16-5-70. Cruelty to children

    (a) A parent, guardian, or other person supervising the welfare of or having immediate charge or custody of a child under the age of 18 commits the offense of cruelty to children in the first degree when such person willfully deprives the child of necessary sustenance to the extent that the child's health or well-being is jeopardized.

    (b) Any person commits the offense of cruelty to children in the first degree when such person maliciously causes a child under the age of 18 cruel or excessive physical or mental pain.

    I see the words "willfully" and "maliciously" in there, so I'm guessing that requires proving intent.


    As far as whether child cruelty is a lessor offense of murder ... I have no idea how to look that up, so I'll take your word for it until we hear from the Grand Jury!








    And for anyone interested ... Here are two articles from the AJC and MDJ that came out over the weekend. Both are very long and not particularly earth-shattering, so I won't paste them here.

    http://www.myajc.com/news/news/crime...3648799.735442

    http://www.mdjonline.com/view/full_s...analyze-Harris
    Quote Originally Posted by Not your business View Post
    I will out think the fucking pants off of you and you would thank me for helping you out of them.

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