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Thread: Darlie Routier convicted of capital murder in death of her sons Damon and Devon, 1996

  1. #26
    Senior Member sarabei's Avatar
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    I have always felt like she didn't do it...I don't know, too many issues with the prosecution's case imo.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by blighted star View Post
    Sorry about the multi-posting. Just this last bit about Tom Bevel, the prosecution's blood spatter expert in the Routier trial ...

    This is regarding his professional opinion in the Kenneth Trentadue case. Read & be amazed

    http://www.infowars.com/articles/us/...entadue_05.htm

    Do you really trust this guy's "expert testimony" in any case? (& he's not the guy who admitted lying on the stand about the knives being contaminated during testing - that was another prosecution witness)
    omfg.

  3. #28
    Senior Member bermstalker's Avatar
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    I've clicked on the links everybody has supplied. I spent about 2 hours in the forum blighted posted.

    There is just way too much information in this case. There is so much -it's hard to grasp. There is so much back and forth between the anti/pro people that most of the information is all diluted now. I really don't know what to believe about any of the information in this case now.

    Personally, I think she's guilty.
    All I had to do was watch an interview with her to form my opinion. (BTW...her voice is really annoying)

    Last edited by bermstalker; 07-01-2014 at 02:26 AM.

  4. #29
    Senior Member hamdinger125's Avatar
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    There is just way too much information in this case. There is so much -it's hard to grasp. There is so much back and forth between the anti/pro people that most of the information is all diluted now. I really don't know what to believe about any of the information in this case now.
    Yes, this, exactly. It's too much info, and I never know how much is really true or just rumors that were passed down as truth when they were really false.

  5. #30
    Senior Member kevansvault's Avatar
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    Living in Texas at the time of these murders I am damn near positive she did it. All of the information I've seen over the years points to her and only to her. Sure, that could be from the way the case or evidence has been presented, but I've done exhausting searches on the evidence and found nothing to contradict the prosecution's assertions.
    Don't like what I have to say? I respect that. Now go fuck yourself.

  6. #31
    Shut your face, grandma! Nic B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevansvault View Post
    Living in Texas at the time of these murders I am damn near positive she did it. All of the information I've seen over the years points to her and only to her. Sure, that could be from the way the case or evidence has been presented, but I've done exhausting searches on the evidence and found nothing to contradict the prosecution's assertions.
    Did you see the pictures of her bruises?


    Quote Originally Posted by marakisses View Post
    yes i said i will leave it under you storage he said cuddle with me i said shut up it over??? what am i doing wrong??

  7. #32
    Senior Member queenaevadamthng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bermstalker View Post
    I've clicked on the links everybody has supplied. I spent about 2 hours in the forum blighted posted.

    There is just way too much information in this case. There is so much -it's hard to grasp. There is so much back and forth between the anti/pro people that most of the information is all diluted now. I really don't know what to believe about any of the information in this case now.

    Personally, I think she's guilty.
    All I had to do was watch an interview with her to form my opinion. (BTW...her voice is really annoying)

    I feel the exact same way about this one. Did you see the interview where she sings? Her speaking and singing voice remind me of a bad version of Jewel..


    "Theoretical physics can prove that an elephant can hang from a cliff with its tail tied to a daisy. But use your eyes, your common sense".... JIM GARRISON

  8. #33
    Senior Member becoming's Avatar
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    I hate her. She is completely unlikeable as a person. And fake. And, if she didn't commit the murder, she at least wasn't truly very upset about it happening. But I don't know that I would have been able to convict her beyond a shadow of a doubt with the evidence presented.

  9. #34
    Senior Member queenaevadamthng's Avatar
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    I most definitely think her personality was more of a factor in getting a conviction than the evidence itself.


    "Theoretical physics can prove that an elephant can hang from a cliff with its tail tied to a daisy. But use your eyes, your common sense".... JIM GARRISON

  10. #35
    Senior Member bermstalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by queenaevadamthng View Post
    I feel the exact same way about this one. Did you see the interview where she sings? Her speaking and singing voice remind me of a bad version of Jewel..
    HA. at the end of that video I posted is where she sings.

  11. #36
    Senior Member blighted star's Avatar
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    Yeah, I'll be honest, I can't stand her either & my history makes me more likely than the average person to assume the worst of accused mothers, but even with my usually extreme reaction, there's something really wrong with this case. I've wavered back & forth quite a few times. I guess I still could if someone provided a logical explanation for some of this shit, but I don't think anyone can for a lot of it.

    What stopped my wavering was seeing a rational alternative explanation for every issue raised in this thread so far. I know there's a lot to read through, but to cut it down you can just use logic & your own eyes for some of it. At the very least it should raise questions.

    Re the 911 call - opinions for her or against her based on that call fall neatly into 2 camps - those who heard the version the prosecution played in court, & those who heard the original, unedited call. Yep. Two versions of the 911call (I'll find links).

    Re her neck wounds - try simulating the angle yourself (remembering Darlie is right-handed)- think about how far down you have to pull your hand (still at that angle) for the knife, not your hand, to be level with the lower end of the second part of that laceration. It's an extremely unusual angle for a self-inflicted wound, especially the jump in the middle (& her necklace wasn't just embedded in the wound, it was damaged too - the links have corresponding cuts)

    Re no blood on the pillow or lounge where she said she was sleeping? There was, but these pix weren't presented in court.
    (Zoom & you'll see 2 long blood trickles in the left purple area - coincidentally their placement matches blood on the collar of her shirt - see down the page)


    Coffee Table near the end of the lounge where Darlie says she went to sleep (the recently tested unidentified print came from this area)


    Re the prosecution claim that she cut her own throat standing upright at the sink. Darlie said she was lying on her left side when she was woken by one of her boys touching her right shoulder.

    Neck wound



    Front nightshirt


    Back nightshirt


    Look where the neck wound is on the right of her neck, then look at the collar over the wearer's left shoulder in both shots of the shirt. How did blood get way up there on the opposite side of that collar if she was standing upright? It defies all laws of gravity. It is exactly where blood would start to flow if she'd been lying on her left side at some point though.


    I just spent a couple of days reading that whole thread I linked & despite some very good arguments being made for her guilt, they managed to counter every one of them with trial transcript, crime scene photos & recent testing (backed up with Appeals court transcripts, not hearsay).

    I know some of you are convinced she's guilty & have been for over a decade & it doesn't help when there's years of misinformation out there. I've posted with you guys for over a year now & even when we disagree I respect your opinions because the vast majority of posters here are fair & reasonable people. So I hope you guys get time to take a closer look at the arguments in the thread I linked, admittedly I only found it recently but they seem legit.

    It's not a pro-Darlie site, it's a justice site that works on wrongful convictions. They look at a lot of cases in their debate threads, but they're very picky about what they work on. The thread I linked is one where they debate the case before deciding whether to take it on, & even then it has to be put to a vote first. As a result of the debate in that thread they've just recently agreed to look at her case (there were members who were sceptical at the start). That thread is still a for & against thread though, it's not a pro-Darlie thread. They welcome the debate because they're not interested in wasting their time on defendents who belong where they are.

    I know MDS are a tough crowd but I really think that if you ignore all the personality stuff (most of which comes via media & prosecution) & focus on the crime scene evidence (especially the stuff that was entered into the trial record as exhibits, but never presented to the jury), this starts to look a lot less solid.


    (Lol & thanx anyone who made it to the end - I just did my bit for the whole tl:dr of this case )

  12. #37
    Shut your face, grandma! Nic B's Avatar
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    I agree, Blighted. I can see sides for both, but I don't know, it's always the bruising that gets to me! And also the argument of "no one breaks into a home to just kill and leave without robbing them" but that isn't always true. I mean, what about people who thrill kill? What if someone out there wanted to feel what it was like to kill? It may not make sense to normal, smart people like us. But there are crazies out there and you can't always try to make sense of what insane or sick people may do. Sometimes things happen that don't make sense.

    I, too, think that a lot of her conviction was based on the way she acted. Also, people didn't think someone would break in just to kill, so that meant she had to have done it. Add that with a lot of "well, her wound COULD'VE been self-inflicted" and other stuff here and there, and then she did it. But not everyone reacts the same. Someone who has been through something awful, and is in a daze and/or in shock, may say or do weird things.

    The more I look into this case, the more I believe she didn't do this. I think that after the kids were killed, he was going to try to rape and kill Darlie, but when she fought back, he gave up and got out of there.

    I was just reading a case yesterday where an older couple was found stabbed in their home. The cops immediately thought it had to be someone they knew (no signs of forced entry, that they were stabbed which is personal). Nothing was missing except the husband's wallet, but they were sure it wasn't a robbery because nothing else was taken (jewelry, expensive paintings/art, TV, laptops, other expensive electronics, etc.). And who did it turn out to be? 2 random teenagers who didn't know them, who targeted them to rob and kill them. Just goes to show that sometimes, things happen that don't tend to make much sense.


    Quote Originally Posted by marakisses View Post
    yes i said i will leave it under you storage he said cuddle with me i said shut up it over??? what am i doing wrong??

  13. #38
    Senior Member queenaevadamthng's Avatar
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    There are lots of notorious cases where it was simply someone wanting to kill people.


    "Theoretical physics can prove that an elephant can hang from a cliff with its tail tied to a daisy. But use your eyes, your common sense".... JIM GARRISON

  14. #39
    🤔 Angiebla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by queenaevadamthng View Post
    There are lots of notorious cases where it was simply someone wanting to kill people.
    That is true, but even murderers have standards. Killing two little boys but not making sure the mom was dead? I don't think so.

    Plus wasn't it speculated they broke in to burglarize the place, and didn't expect to see the homeowners on the first floor at 3 am? It's not like the homeowners came home and scared them, if an intruder saw them they would leave ASAP.

    I didn't want to believe she killed her own kids in such a brutal manner at first either. I really think she had PPD.

    "The love for all living creatures is the most noble attribute of man" -Charles Darwin

    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    Chelsea, if you are a ghost and reading mds, I command you to walk into the light.

  15. #40
    Senior Member Boston Babe 73's Avatar
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    I find it impossible for an intruder to come in, kill the boys in such a violent manner, injure the Mom and leave no trace. And leave the Mom alive. Makes zero sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Miller22 View Post
    I thought the exact same thing. Poor Brennen Tammons.
    Oh well, back to gum.
    ....or exchanging Puke's wang for spicy nuts.
    Quote Originally Posted by animosity View Post
    I know, right? What the fuck, puke? Willing to take in Boston, an Irish dude and like, 17 dogs but not Ron? poor Ron.

  16. #41
    Senior Member blighted star's Avatar
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    But that's the thing he DID leave a trace, quite a few, & I don't believe he had any intention of leaving her alive (see below). The only reason there was "no trace of an intruder" in early media reports & prosecution statements is the that lead investigator focused on Darlie within 20mins of his arrival (from memory that's a verified statement). From that point evidence collection was focused on proving Darlie's guilt. It's only now that she's started winning appeals for further testing that forensic scientists are discovering that the original crime scene techs accidentally collected proof of an intruder while they were focused on collecting proof against Darlie.

    Because they thought they had their killer there are HUGE areas of that crime scene that were never swabbed, dusted or properly photographed. Including every "x" on that blood map (Berm's post pg 1) & yet another unidentified print related to the utility room (door?) where Darlie said the guy exited (it's currently the subject of legal wrangling over permission to test)


    So far there's definitely an unidentified print in blood on the table near Darlie.
    Darin, Darlie, Devon & Damon were all excluded as the source (her appeals lawyer had to fight for years just to get the court order to test this major piece of evidence that should have been done before they even went to trial)

    There were definitely 2 unidentified body hairs on the sock in the alley - Darlie & Darin have now been ruled out as contributors (again, her appeals lawyer had to fight to get a court order to have this tested & this only occurred relatively recently).

    Now they're fighting to have these results run through AFIS & the DNA database. Why? The testing cost? Surely just running the damn tests is cheaper than the legal cost of blocking them for years



    ALSO * There may be a second knife. (I'm not convinced of this yet) this suggestion is based on none of Devon's blood being found on the knife the prosecution presented as the sole murder weapon, & the wounds on Devon being very different to Darlie & Damon's. Devon's are wide in the middle - as seen in wounds inflicted by a double-sided knife.

    They only tested very small areas of the crime scene & the objects within it. For instance, this is how much of the sock was actually tested.



    They're supposed to take samples from a broad area, especially areas with visible blood, but in Darlie's case they took tiny portions from a few very limited areas, leaving an obvious bloodstain & the rest of the sock. Why? because they weren't looking for proof of an unknown intruder. They were told to look for proof of Darlie being connected to that sock. The scientist involved said the toe & heel are the best place to find the wearer's skin cells, so that's all they tested.


    If the testing of the knife was as limited as the sock & the blood map, Devon's blood could still be present but untested on that knife - & if they failed to find Devon's DNA, maybe the owner of that bloody fingerprint left DNA in the untested areas too.

    These questions should have been answered long before the case went to trial. I'm sure most people assumed this kind of shit was sorted before her arrest - that it was the reason for her arrest.

    When it comes down to it, we're basing our views on the statements of LE & prosecutors to the media - & we're trusting them to be honest, accurate, competent & above personal agenda.

    Sometimes our trust is misplaced

  17. #42
    Senior Member queenaevadamthng's Avatar
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    You most definitely have some very valid points. As I said before I have ridden the fence on this one as long as I have known about the case.


    "Theoretical physics can prove that an elephant can hang from a cliff with its tail tied to a daisy. But use your eyes, your common sense".... JIM GARRISON

  18. #43
    Senior Member bermstalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blighted star;3558086
    So far there's [B
    definitely[/B] an unidentified print in blood on the table near Darlie.
    Darin, Darlie, Devon & Damon were all excluded as the source (her appeals lawyer had to fight for years just to get the court order to test this major piece of evidence that should have been done before they even went to trial)
    I snipped some of your post.

    Just had to show what the other side says about the print.

    Fiction: A bloody fingerprint was found in the family room, but the prosecution refused to have it analyzed for a possible match to an intruder.
    Fact: A bloody, partial fingerprint (Exhibit 85-J) was, indeed, found on the sofa table between the family room and the kitchen. James Cron testified about this evidence at Darlie's trial. Because it is a smudged, partial print, it lacks sufficient points of comparison to identify anyone. That was as true in 1996 as it is today.

    Darlie's defense, of course, cannot match the partial to a specific individual, either, so they have chosen to pursue the exclusionary route. In other words, who can be excluded as the donor of that print? If Darlie and every other person at the crime scene can be excluded, the defense theorizes, then it must belong to an intruder.

    And so began the battle of the experts over a decade ago. The best way to review these conflicting opinions is to cite excerpts from Darlie's Writ of Habeas Corpus. The excerpts are in italics.

    Then what all the people testified to- rest of the article continued here
    http://www.darlieroutierfactandficti.../myth--15.html
    Some of the statements
    Contrary to Cron's testimony, the fingerprint had sufficient points of identification for University of Tennessee professor Richard Jantz to conduct an anthropological analysis.

    The defense is grossly misrepresenting Jantz's report. He did not base his conclusion on points of identification; in fact, they played no role whatsoever in his analysis. Rather, his study was based on comparing three aspects of the print in regard to length, breadth, and proximity of ridges, etc., which change in size as a person grows.

    Jantz concluded that the print belongs to an adult, not a child.

    Nowhere in his report does Jantz positively conclude that the print is from an adult, as the Writ proclaims. Nowhere. This is what he said: "That the print is a child's cannot be ruled out, but based on this evidence it has a much lower probability than an adult."

    What the defense did not say in the Writ is that, using the same results that Jantz came up with, the probability of the print belonging to a male adult is 21%. The probability of it belonging to a female adult is 46%. No wonder the defense didn't mention this. If the latent belongs to an intruder, the probability is consistently much higher that it was a female intruder.
    Another point posted around: Jantz also compared the latent print with samples from Darlie, Darin, Damon, Devon, and all law enforcement personnel who responded to the Routier's residence. None of the prints from these individuals matched the latent print.

    This statement is simply not true. Jantz makes absolutely no mention in his report of comparing the latent print to Darlie, Darin, or any of the police officers or paramedics. Therefore, he couldn't possibly have ruled anyone out.

    Pat Wertheim - State
    Pat Wertheim, a latent print examiner with the Arizona Department of Public Safety, also analyzed the partial print. After comparing it to everyone at the crime scene - 28 people - he concluded that only Darlie Routier's right ring finger could not be excluded as the source.

    The latent print in exhibit 85-J was analyzed and compared to the known fingerprints of Rodney James McGaffey, Simon Nicholas Johnson, Darin Eugene Routier, Darlie Lynn Routier, Thomas Dean Ward, Katherine Long, Charles Arlan Linch, David W. Waddell, Larry Wayne Byford, Todd Sullivan Higgins, Rick Coleman, Michael Steven Youngblood, Dennis Ray Vrana, Brian Leland Koschak, Jack Lloyd Kolbye, Eric Jon Zimmerman, Duane Thomas Beddingfield, Charles David Hamilton, Bobby Ray Clark, Lamar D. Evans, Chris W. Frosch, J. Patterson, David R. Mayne, Charles Hamilton, David Waddell, David Nabors, James Matthew Walling, and Dana Stahl. All of the fingers of the above named people were excluded as the source of the latent print except the right ringer finger of Darlie Lynn Routier. The latent could be neither excluded nor identified to that finger and the comparison was deemed inconclusive.
    Last edited by bermstalker; 07-03-2014 at 03:45 AM.

  19. #44
    Senior Member blighted star's Avatar
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    Re her injuries, this is possibly the worst bit of misinformation because the prosecution were so deliberate about spreading it


    * "Superficial wounds" vs. "Superficial to"


    This is where the "superficial wounds" story came from - The surgeon who operated on Darlie said her neck wound was
    "2mm of the carotid sheath but was superficial to the carotid artery
    The surgeon used the word "superficial" in a medical sense to describe a wound that had penetrated the carotid sheath but was outside or "superficial to" the carotid artery. The prosecution took the word "superficial" from that report & twisted into something it was never intended to mean. Technically they weren't lying, the dr did say that wound was superficial, but anyone with a reasonable grasp of English can see that the context changes the meaning completely.

    (Her mother-in-law has described bruising or cuts to her nipple immediately after in hospital- that was never photographed & now can't be confirmed).

    The truth is that was pure chance that she survived. We're talking 2 milimetres, not centimetres, milimetres (or 0.0787 of an inch) of chance.

    If one of the parents in Dennis Rader's cases survived, they could be in Darlie's position now. I'm sure you can all list random family murders. What if one of the Dardeen parents made it ?

    I remember at the time (1997?) everyone but surviving family were convinced Russell Dardeen attacked his pregnant wife & 3 yr old son, then murdered his 7 wk premature baby daughter who was born on the floor while his wife was being raped & beaten -because that much overkill is personal & no-one would watch a tiny premature baby being born & then beat her to death unless they needed her dead. She couldn't testify, so it had to be a relative, because people don't just appear from nowhere & do shit like that.

    Except they do.


    Russell Dardeen's body was eventually found mutilated in a field. The case is still unsolved. Tommy Lynn Sells claimed responsibility for it but was never charged. He travelled aimlessly across the U.S committing crimes just like it. His name comes up often in Darlie's case due the similarities. I've read that he can be placed in Texas during the time period too but I won't state it as fact because I haven't looked at the source.

    http://www.courierpress.com/news/200...ictims-mother/


    The Dardeen case is that one case that really shook me to my core. The things that mother saw & felt before her death are unspeakable & fucking soul-destroying & I will never, never forget their story. It's the only time I've almost vomited reading a crime description - & I didn't even see the pix. I think my reaction was more shock at the cold cruelty than anything else.

  20. #45
    Senior Member bermstalker's Avatar
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    I'm not trying to argue with anybody. Mostly I am just showing why you really can't believe anything either side posts about this case. For every piece of evidence Blighted posted above- I can also come back and post stuff that other experts had said.

    So who do I believe in this story? Do I believe the trial transcripts? Well, they show Darlie did it. Do I believe the experts? Their testimony is being called into question. Do I believe the blood? Both sides say something different. Do I believe the stab wounds? Only the boys had stab wounds. Darlie had cuts. 3 doctors said they were superficial cuts.
    The pro Darlie people bitch because certain blood was not tested. Why didn't they (the defense) test it when it happened? I know they have the right to do that.

    I would love to see a new trial. There is just enough fuckery to make you say....hmmmm.

    Anyway, here are a few more things I found.



    Re her neck wounds - try simulating the angle yourself (remembering Darlie is right-handed)- think about how far down you have to pull your hand (still at that angle) for the knife, not your hand, to be level with the lower end of the second part of that laceration. It's an extremely unusual angle for a self-inflicted wound, especially the jump in the middle (& her necklace wasn't just embedded in the wound, it was damaged too - the links have corresponding cuts)
    Fiction: Darlie's necklace saved her life. It was embedded in her neck, preventing the knife from going any deeper.
    Fact: The necklace was not embedded in her wound. It had simply adhered to the blood on her neck, and was easily removed before her exploratory surgery.

    Shook: Did you remove a necklace from her neck?
    Fitts: Right. When the technicians pulled the dressing off the wound, a chain was freed from around her neck. It was underneath the dressing the paramedics had applied. I took that off and set it aside.
    Shook: Ok. And it was unattached?
    Fitts: It was unattached.

    Neck wound
    Dr. Janice Townsend-Parchman: The neck wound was...possibly less than half an inch deep, but it’s hard to say. It is relatively superficial. It didn’t go very deep into her body, and didn’t strike any vital structures.
    Dr. Santos: This wound cut through the skin and fat, but didn’t penetrate the muscle below. That’s a superficial wound.

  21. #46
    Senior Member blighted star's Avatar
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    Yeah, the prints stuff had my head spinning for a while, there was a lot of back & forth on it, so your link could be right one.

    So many people with no connection to the case are so weirdly invested in this being one way or another that there's lots of fact tweaking happening on both sides - not everyone does it, but because a few do you really can't trust anything you read.

    I'll see if I can find the links I saw, I can't remember why, but after 2 days of reading I was satisfied with the defence version. I could be wrong though.

    (the pages in that forum I linked are SO LONG compared to ours otherwise I'd probably remember where it was. Just gotta make the kids dinner & I'll have a look for it)

  22. #47
    Senior Member blighted star's Avatar
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    Also, I'm having HUGE dramas posting. The first 2 of today's 3 I've been trying to post for 2 hrs, so if I ever look like I'm arguing, I'm probably not - I'm just multi-posting r e a l l y s l o w l y



    me on the left & the rest of MDS top right >>>

    Lol I've been trying to post this since I sent the last one. Only crashed 5 times this time. Woohoo

  23. #48
    Senior Member bermstalker's Avatar
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    This is a HUGE article I found. Lots of information in it. I'm just going to post this one small part I found because I thought it was interesting. I hate insomnia.

    Rowlett police had turned to the FBI's Center for Analysis of Violent Crime in Quantico, Virginia, to evaluate and compare the wounds of the dead boys to those of Darlie. The FBI's Al Brantley, after studying the doctors' and coroner's reports as well as the crime findings in general attested that the wounds between sons and mother were indeed vastly different Darlie's superficial, Damon's and Devon's massive and mortal. The attack on the children was personal, said Brantley. "The killer focused on their chests," he emphasized, "almost as if going for their heart. That indicates extreme anger toward them."

    Brantley reported other observations. "For a violent struggle to take place as the mother claimed, no real breakage occurred. After looking at the crime-scene photographs, it appeared to me that the intruder who committed this crime had a strong connection to the material items in the home. The living room was fairly small and compressed. Two adults fighting would have resulted in a lot more broken things. A lot of fragile items in the living room that should have taken the brunt of a struggle were not broken."

    His conclusion: Damon's and Devon's slayer was someone who knew them and knew the premises. The entire scenario had been planned in advance and staged.

    http://www.crimelibrary.com/notoriou...outier/14.html

    ----------

    ETA- I wanted to add something else. Darlie even took the stand in her own defense. She was her own worst witness. IMO
    She wrote letters to people while she was in jail saying she knew who the intruder was. Darlie actually asked in court if it ‘was legal’ to intercept her prison post b/c she was pissed the DA was reading them out loud.
    Last edited by bermstalker; 07-03-2014 at 12:03 AM.

  24. #49
    Senior Member bermstalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blighted star View Post
    Yeah, the prints stuff had my head spinning for a while, there was a lot of back & forth on it, so your link could be right one.

    So many people with no connection to the case are so weirdly invested in this being one way or another that there's lots of fact tweaking happening on both sides - not everyone does it, but because a few do you really can't trust anything you read.

    I'll see if I can find the links I saw, I can't remember why, but after 2 days of reading I was satisfied with the defence version. I could be wrong though.

    (the pages in that forum I linked are SO LONG compared to ours otherwise I'd probably remember where it was. Just gotta make the kids dinner & I'll have a look for it)
    I know what you mean. This whole thing makes my head spin. I really decided I didn't know much about this case. So I went and read Darlie's trial transcripts and Darin's.


    I'm more convinced than before that Darlie murdered her two boys. I think her motive was revenge kill. She wanted to hurt Darin. There was a lot of drama going on between those two. Both of them are liars liars liars. She would get caught in lies on the stand. I actually had flashes of Jodi Arias when I was reading Darlie and the DA go back and forth. The very long, detailed amount of information she wanted to tell about everything.....except the night of the murder (just like Jodi). Darlie accused 2 other men of killing her boys- and she was a fuking liar. She got caught, then tried to back peddle. I laughed when the DA bought in the one man and made her basically do a line up right there in court.

    Her supporters are wrong when they say the judge wouldn't let things come out. Huh?? Actually the judge let in a lot of hearsay. He gave Darlie a lot of room.

    Darlie wants people to believe that about 15 nurses are liars (not exactly sure but the pro site has a tab called nurses and they list a bunch that "lied" on the stand), more than 5 doctors, countless amounts of police and EMT and firefighters. To believe Darlie's story- you have to believe that a whole bunch of professional people bald-faced lied. You even have to believe that her friend's lied. Sure, I can understand believing the police lied, but not a whole bunch of nurses and doctors. She also wants you to believe that the FBI agent lied and the couple of investigators that had interviewed her at different times were lying.

    Here's are all the trial transcripts. Just scroll to Darlie's testimony. BTW: This is a pro- Darlie site.
    http://darliefacts.com/jury-trial-transcripts/

  25. #50
    Senior Member blighted star's Avatar
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    I thought the nurse testimony was confirmed to be incorrect years ago because it contradicted their original patient notes? I don't think anyone lied, but the media coverage was brutal. She looked completely guilty due to her behaviour & memory's a funny thing. What you believe strongly today kind of reshapes your memory of past events. If the media & public opinion didn't convince them she was a vicious, lying child killer, their meetings with LE & the prosecution would have.

    I'll check on the nursing notes though, it could be bullshit.

    Re the "no evidence of struggle" report, judging by the blood spray etc it looks like she fought with him from her sleeping position on the lounge , so you wouldn't expect the room to look like there'd been a brawl. I'm usually kind of wary of all that subjective "profiling" stuff, it doesn't always hold up well after the factual evidence becomes known. When it does work, it's usually based on a pristine crime scene. No matter how good that guy usually is at this stuff, his opinion's based on a crime scene that has objects blatantly switching position even while police are photographing it (somewhere between 800-1000 pix were taken & very few are available to us, but even in those few you can clearly see objects switching places in different pix)

    At first I thought "well, that doesn't mean anything, they had $$, it was a big house, maybe they had 4 lounges". Prosecution maps only show 2 lounges though, & in most of those pics you can either see the knocked over lamp, or the pile of books & folders stacked on the floor by the lounge, in others pillows & blankets are moved or gone - a "pro" site says the green folders that gradually moved into shot, then replaced her pillow on the lounge, then opened, were used to "prove" Darlie was looking at life insurance the night before, but I haven't read enough to know if there's any truth to it.





    I got some links re the appeals over that print. In 2008 her request for further testing of the coffee table print was denied

    http://tcadp.org/2008/06/19/deth-pen...nnie-joe-neal/

    This site below is a pro-Darlie site but the part I linked is a legal document index - which means their version can be checked against original transcripts if anyone's sceptical (& can be bothered)

    http://www.fordarlieroutier.org/Legal/index.html


    The reason I'm veering toward the defence version on that print is, they've been fighting for years to have that evidence reviewed & as recently as 2008 those requests were still being denied. Late last year though, Judge Royal Ferguson reviewed all the reports & arguments on the print from both sides & this time the request was approved - I can't download the PDF doc because I'm stuck on mobile for the next few weeks, but if it's being discussed accurately, the judge has approved it being run through AFIS.

    With all the years of denied appeals, it seems strange they'd grant that review if the prosecution had continued to establish that Darlie couldn't be ruled out. But either way, if it really is being run through AFIS, maybe it'll get a hit with more points of comparison & there'll finally be a real answer.


    - & maybe I'll switch sides when it happens.


    Also ... (& this came from a pro-Darlie site) one of the tests that wasn't available in the past is a method of identifying sex via the peptides in fingerprints. The defense has been trying to have these tests run. If AFIS works out they won't need this, but if there's no hit, running the test below could either make things a lot better or worse for Darlie.

    http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/20...ex-fingerprint



    Re the original trial transcripts, apparently that's an appeal issue all on it's own. The court reporter, Sandra Halsey, faced a disciplinary hearing over her conduct in the Routier trial. There are an unheard of number of transcript errors, between 18,000 & 33,000. There are supposed to be tapes for backup, but she claimed she had new equipment that didn't work & she testified they'd all failed. Later it was discovered she'd lied under oath & some did work. A judge ordered that the transcript be reconstructed by a particular court reporter, but it was such a mess she refused to notarise the transcripts so Sandra Halsey's name still appears on most of it.

    The end result is that even reading the court transcript might not give us the real story, it was screwed up so badly that rather than just typo's & missing punctuation, this transcript has entire words switched - important words - like "yes" instead of "no"& vice versa.

    (although if you look at the link below, the one example they give out of the 18,000 implies the corrections will make Darlie look worse)

    http://lubbockonline.com/stories/060...60799013.shtml



    Basically the whole thing's a hideous fucking mess, guilty or innocent, there's no denying that her luck was shit at every single stage of this case - a screwed crime scene, incompetent defence counsel, world's worst court reporter - possibly even a judge with narcolepsy according to something I just read. We usually rely heavily on LE & prosecution statements to weed out the bullshit, but that isn't going to work here. Using this clusterfuck as the basis for an execution makes me pretty uneasy (that kind of whent without saying, I'm sure no-one picked up that vibe from me )

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