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Thread: Merisha Bradtmueller, 22, Charged After Unused Monitor Results In Death Of Her 8mth Old Son

  1. #51
    Superomnininjamember Monter's Avatar
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    I think we need to be careful of speaking in hyperbole when it comes to certain subjects. Do I think you are advocating fro the extermination of a race, shins? Of course not. I get the sentiment of saying "so and so should not have a kid" . HOWEVER I do not see any reasonable way of connecting the two.
    We can disagree on that.
    You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.- D. Moynihan
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    Moderator bowieluva's Avatar
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    i don't want to live anywhere where people's opinions on other people merit their right to control their bodies, period. Not saying anything specific about race. When it comes down to it, we cannot determine the future actions of an adult. We can encourage education and mental help accessibility.

    There's nothing wrong with being like 'man, that person shouldn't have kids' as an opinion, but trying to institute that as a law would be such an instantly slippery slope that it doesn't even appeal to me on any theoretical level.

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    What do you care? Boston Babe 73's Avatar
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    I think we're talking more on proven actions rather than opinions of people. That's the difference. If a child is being physically abused to the point that they die, that's not an opinion. The kid is dead and that's a fact. Nobody shoulder be sterilized based on an opinion anymore than people being thrown in jail based on opinion. I'm at least talking after a crime has been committed. And I don't care what you are, where you're from and what you're problem is. You are a proven danger to children and should not be allowed to have more.

    Just my view.
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    Certified Grumple Bottoms Ron_NYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Babe 73 View Post
    I think we're talking more on proven actions rather than opinions of people. That's the difference. If a child is being physically abused to the point that they die, that's not an opinion. The kid is dead and that's a fact. Nobody shoulder be sterilized based on an opinion anymore than people being thrown in jail based on opinion. I'm at least talking after a crime has been committed. And I don't care what you are, where you're from and what you're problem is. You are a proven danger to children and should not be allowed to have more.

    Just my view.
    There's too many people as it is, so fuck it.
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  5. #55
    Superomnininjamember Monter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Babe 73 View Post
    I think we're talking more on proven actions rather than opinions of people. That's the difference. If a child is being physically abused to the point that they die, that's not an opinion. The kid is dead and that's a fact. Nobody shoulder be sterilized based on an opinion anymore than people being thrown in jail based on opinion. I'm at least talking after a crime has been committed. And I don't care what you are, where you're from and what you're problem is. You are a proven danger to children and should not be allowed to have more.

    Just my view.
    But who is to say what circumstances merit sterilization? What about circumstances that are more gray - like ignorant young parents who lay a newborn on their back instead of their front and the child dies? Or a mother who does drugs before they know they are pregnant and the child is stillborn? Where does it end?
    I recognize you are talking about people who cold bloodedly kill their kids, but that is the problem, as bowie said with government intervention - it gets applied as a broad stroke. Im not prepared to say I should judge who can or can not have kids, and I dont want that power in anyone else's hands either.
    You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.- D. Moynihan
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    Moderator bowieluva's Avatar
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    Right, if people weren't raised to be such dumb pieces of crazy shit and had less access to religious dogma and more to educational sources and birth control, we would see those homicides diminish significantly anyway.

  7. #57
    Superomnininjamember Monter's Avatar
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    Systemic social issues = kid murders.
    You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.- D. Moynihan
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    fun hater Shins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Babe 73 View Post
    I think we're talking more on proven actions rather than opinions of people. That's the difference. If a child is being physically abused to the point that they die, that's not an opinion. The kid is dead and that's a fact. Nobody shoulder be sterilized based on an opinion anymore than people being thrown in jail based on opinion. I'm at least talking after a crime has been committed. And I don't care what you are, where you're from and what you're problem is. You are a proven danger to children and should not be allowed to have more.

    Just my view.

    I understand your emotion behind that, but put yourself in the place of the person who is sterilized. I'd imagine being sterilized against your will would be a traumatic experience.

    Regardless of the crime committed, in reality that's overkill.

    From a non-emotional and rational/constitutional standpoint, we don't do torture justice in this country.
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    Listen, if no one cares when a crazy noodle walks in and executes children with a gun, no one cares about anything.

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    Certified Grumple Bottoms Ron_NYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shins View Post
    I understand your emotion behind that, but put yourself in the place of the person who is sterilized. I'd imagine being sterilized against your will would be a traumatic experience.

    Regardless of the crime committed, in reality that's overkill.

    From a non-emotional and rational/constitutional standpoint, we don't do torture justice in this country.
    If someone is upset over this after they starve a baby to death I honestly couldn't care less.
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    Ron was the best part, hands down.

  10. #60
    What do you care? Boston Babe 73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron_NYC View Post
    If someone is upset over this after they starve a baby to death I honestly couldn't care less.
    Yep.
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  11. #61
    Senior Member Queena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    i don't want to live anywhere where people's opinions on other people merit their right to control their bodies, period. Not saying anything specific about race. When it comes down to it, we cannot determine the future actions of an adult. We can encourage education and mental help accessibility.

    There's nothing wrong with being like 'man, that person shouldn't have kids' as an opinion, but trying to institute that as a law would be such an instantly slippery slope that it doesn't even appeal to me on any theoretical level.
    Thank you!

    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Babe 73 View Post
    I think we're talking more on proven actions rather than opinions of people. That's the difference. If a child is being physically abused to the point that they die, that's not an opinion. The kid is dead and that's a fact. Nobody shoulder be sterilized based on an opinion anymore than people being thrown in jail based on opinion. I'm at least talking after a crime has been committed. And I don't care what you are, where you're from and what you're problem is. You are a proven danger to children and should not be allowed to have more.

    Just my view.
    The law, while not based on opinion, has been wrong before. I remember a case in St. Louis. A couple's child dies from poisoning, the autopsy showed a chemical structure similar to antifreeze. They put the lady in jail, they say she is responsible for the death of the child. She's pregnant. And the child she gives birth to is taken, and while on bail her and her husband have supervised visits. The second child becomes sick and has the same type of poison in his system as the first child. Both of the parents are jailed, although the Children Services can't figure out how they poisoned the second child. The story is showed on Unsolved Mysteries, doctors from all over start calling in because they recognize the disease. The court made a mistake. According to your logic, the poor lady would be steralized already, and she wasn't guilty. While courts aren't opinoin based, they are being watched over by humans.

    Quote Originally Posted by Monter View Post
    But who is to say what circumstances merit sterilization? What about circumstances that are more gray - like ignorant young parents who lay a newborn on their back instead of their front and the child dies? Or a mother who does drugs before they know they are pregnant and the child is stillborn? Where does it end?
    I recognize you are talking about people who cold bloodedly kill their kids, but that is the problem, as bowie said with government intervention - it gets applied as a broad stroke. Im not prepared to say I should judge who can or can not have kids, and I dont want that power in anyone else's hands either.
    Thank you Monter, I agree!

    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    Right, if people weren't raised to be such dumb pieces of crazy shit and had less access to religious dogma and more to educational sources and birth control, we would see those homicides diminish significantly anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Monter View Post
    Systemic social issues = kid murders.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shins View Post
    I understand your emotion behind that, but put yourself in the place of the person who is sterilized. I'd imagine being sterilized against your will would be a traumatic experience.

    Regardless of the crime committed, in reality that's overkill.

    From a non-emotional and rational/constitutional standpoint, we don't do torture justice in this country.
    This. Is. What. I. Am. Saying.

  12. #62
    What do you care? Boston Babe 73's Avatar
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    I just want you add that my view isn't just toward Women either. If a Man is convicted of killing a child, he should be sterilized as well in my view .

    And it's not like I'm talking about killing these people. It's making sure they can't have kids when they're proven to kill children in the past. I'm not a Nazi, I don't believe it should be a blanket punishment (much like the death penalty is only pursued in certain cases) and I'm not about creating a "Brave New World". To me it's no different than taking their children away or not allowing a convicted child molestor to work around children anymore. Don't like my opinion? That's fine. But don't make me out as some "Nazi Monster" just because I don't want Infanticide to be a recurring hobby for some of these people.
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  13. #63
    Senior Member queenaevadamthng's Avatar
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    Scary to think that we could live in a world where only beautiful and racially pure people could be the only ones allowed to breed.

    Back to the pic. She has dead eyes. Nothing vibrant or youthful. Trying to be sexy yes, most probably, but it still just scary considering. JMO, everybody has 'em.


    "Theoretical physics can prove that an elephant can hang from a cliff with its tail tied to a daisy. But use your eyes, your common sense".... JIM GARRISON

  14. #64
    Senior Member animosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Babe 73 View Post
    I just want you add that my view isn't just toward Women either. If a Man is convicted of killing a child, he should be sterilized as well in my view .

    And it's not like I'm talking about killing these people. It's making sure they can't have kids when they're proven to kill children in the past. I'm not a Nazi, I don't believe it should be a blanket punishment (much like the death penalty is only pursued in certain cases) and I'm not about creating a "Brave New World". To me it's no different than taking their children away or not allowing a convicted child molestor to work around children anymore. Don't like my opinion? That's fine. But don't make me out as some "Nazi Monster" just because I don't want Infanticide to be a recurring hobby for some of these people.
    http://www.cga.ct.gov/2006/rpt/2006-R-0183.htm
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    What do you care? Boston Babe 73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by animosity View Post
    Perfect example. And it's not based on race or purity of breed. It's based on committing horrible crimes against children so ensuring that children are taken out of the equation for those individuals. I'm not quite sure why everyone keeps dragging it back to Eugenics when the view I originally brought up has zero to do with Eugenics.

    Yes. The government fucks up. But just like I believe the death penalty should be reserved for cases of absolute solid evidence of murder, this should be as well. You mention "where do they draw the line"? Well you don't see the government applying the death penalty to people who commit Petty Theft right? What makes you think they'll start steralizing anyone and everyone for no reason? If they wanted to mess with genetics, they could use the death penalty to do that already.
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  16. #66
    Superomnininjamember Monter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Babe 73 View Post
    Perfect example. And it's not based on race or purity of breed. It's based on committing horrible crimes against children so ensuring that children are taken out of the equation for those individuals. I'm not quite sure why everyone keeps dragging it back to Eugenics when the view I originally brought up has zero to do with Eugenics.

    Yes. The government fucks up. But just like I believe the death penalty should be reserved for cases of absolute solid evidence of murder, this should be as well. You mention "where do they draw the line"? Well you don't see the government applying the death penalty to people who commit Petty Theft right? What makes you think they'll start steralizing anyone and everyone for no reason? If they wanted to mess with genetics, they could use the death penalty to do that already.
    Please know, boston that i really like and respect you, and totally understand the sentiment you are expressing. I may disagree with how or if it should be implemented, but iyou are obviously not advocating for a nazi regime here either.
    You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.- D. Moynihan
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  17. #67
    Moderator puzzld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Babe 73 View Post
    P

    Yes. The government fucks up. But just like I believe the death penalty should be reserved for cases of absolute solid evidence of murder, this should be as well. You mention "where do they draw the line"? Well you don't see the government applying the death penalty to people who commit Petty Theft right? What makes you think they'll start steralizing anyone and everyone for no reason? If they wanted to mess with genetics, they could use the death penalty to do that already.
    No. But you do hear of people who've committed no crime at all being executed. Mistakes can be made. Mistakes are made. Bad enough to lock someone up for x number of years by mistake, but to eliminate their ability to have children, or yeah even worse kill them? No no no. Barbaric.

    It's not just that mistakes can be made. Put power like this in someones hands and they will abuse it. No question.

    The fact that this could happen isn't just some paranoid fantasy. It's a real part of our history.
    From 1907 through the 1970s, more than 60,000 Americans were forcibly sterilized. Some, like Holt, were in institutions, while others were deemed "feeble-minded" or had "unfit human traits." Others were children of alcoholics whose parents couldn't care for them.


    Thirty-three states had forced sterilization programs. California's was the largest, sterilizing 20,000 people.
    http://edition.cnn.com/2013/07/26/us...tion-payments/


    No. Of course I'm opposed to the dp and forced castration as well.
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    lol at Nestle being some vicious smiter, she's the nicest person on this site besides probably puzzld. Or at least the last person to resort to smiting.
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  18. #68
    Moderator puzzld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monter View Post
    Please know, boston that i really like and respect you, and totally understand the sentiment you are expressing. I may disagree with how or if it should be implemented, but iyou are obviously not advocating for a nazi regime here either.
    This.
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    lol at Nestle being some vicious smiter, she's the nicest person on this site besides probably puzzld. Or at least the last person to resort to smiting.
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    Ok, no sterilization, no forced birth control linked to probation...if a parent or person wantonly and willfully kills their child (numerous examples on this site) via blunt object, throwing them against wall, duct taping over their nose and mouth, stabbing, shooting, raping, or allows their child to be killed in these ways while in their presence or commits an inhumane amount of sexual acts and brutality on a child or knowingly allows such then they get automatic DP. Or LWOP for those against the DP. This case would not meet these criteria so she gets 1 year minus time served and reproductive system intact. I am now leaving this realm to start my own where people who routinely abuse their kids dont get to have any other and dogs that bite small children that require said child to have a lifetime of pain misery and disfigurement don't get any mercy. I think I will call it texmexworld. Others will call it unreasonable world, or mental ward world.
    Last edited by dream; 03-26-2014 at 07:43 AM.

  20. #70
    Moderator bowieluva's Avatar
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    You can never expect that a government force will mirror all of your exact opinions on what should happen to who, which is why eugenics would always be a failure, a disgusting one at that. Not to mention, many of you are not thinking about long term consequences. So meth users should not be able to have kids? Tell PCP to give back his son then. Plenty of excellent people struggled and overcame drug problems. Do you have a magic eight ball to determine who has this ability and who doesn't?

  21. #71
    Moderator puzzld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    You can never expect that a government force will mirror all of your exact opinions on what should happen to who, which is why eugenics would always be a failure, a disgusting one at that. Not to mention, many of you are not thinking about long term consequences. So meth users should not be able to have kids? Tell PCP to give back his son then. Plenty of excellent people struggled and overcame drug problems. Do you have a magic eight ball to determine who has this ability and who doesn't?
    Exactly!

    My Dad was an alcoholic, but also an excellent caring parent. At his worst he was a fall down disgusting drunk who couldn't hold a job. But he got things together and lived a pretty much blameless second half of his life. People can and do change.

    Someone who murders their kid should go to jail and not have charge of others, but...
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    lol at Nestle being some vicious smiter, she's the nicest person on this site besides probably puzzld. Or at least the last person to resort to smiting.
    Quote Originally Posted by nestlequikie View Post
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  22. #72
    Superomnininjamember Monter's Avatar
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    People doing terrible things to those unable to defend themselves is sadly an occasional part of the human condition. There are no easy answers to dealing with it, although a lot is preventable. The prevention requires a LOT of work and people doing more than the basics. There are a lot of people willing to go above and beyond, and that is the good news.
    You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.- D. Moynihan
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  23. #73
    What do you care? Boston Babe 73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monter View Post
    Please know, boston that i really like and respect you, and totally understand the sentiment you are expressing. I may disagree with how or if it should be implemented, but iyou are obviously not advocating for a nazi regime here either.
    Thank you lol.
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  24. #74
    What do you care? Boston Babe 73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    You can never expect that a government force will mirror all of your exact opinions on what should happen to who, which is why eugenics would always be a failure, a disgusting one at that. Not to mention, many of you are not thinking about long term consequences. So meth users should not be able to have kids? Tell PCP to give back his son then. Plenty of excellent people struggled and overcame drug problems. Do you have a magic eight ball to determine who has this ability and who doesn't?
    Did PCP kill one of his kids? Am I missing something?

    This is why I keep saying people are taking what I'm saying and returning to Eugenics. Just saying.
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  25. #75
    fun hater Shins's Avatar
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    This website really opens my eyes to a lot of things I otherwise have given little thought to.
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    Listen, if no one cares when a crazy noodle walks in and executes children with a gun, no one cares about anything.

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