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Thread: JonBenet Ramsey murder discussion

  1. #251
    What do you care? Boston Babe 73's Avatar
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    It's basically how Berm put it. It's a bunch of mish mash puzzle pieces and some people are only showing the frame of the puzzle and others are only connecting the inner part of the picture. It's very confusing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Miller22 View Post
    I thought the exact same thing. Poor Brennen Tammons.
    Oh well, back to gum.
    ....or exchanging Puke's wang for spicy nuts.
    Quote Originally Posted by animosity View Post
    I know, right? What the fuck, puke? Willing to take in Boston, an Irish dude and like, 17 dogs but not Ron? poor Ron.

  2. #252
    Senior Member daisylane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Babe 73 View Post
    It's basically how Berm put it. It's a bunch of mish mash puzzle pieces and some people are only showing the frame of the puzzle and others are only connecting the inner part of the picture. It's very confusing.
    This is why I fucking avoid this case like the plague. Everyone has really SOLID opinions, based on a fucked investigation. There will never be answers, only speculation, and it's all shit. I don't even think of this as a case about a little girl.

    Someone got away with this because of multiple incompetencies, not because they were clever. I still think that someone was Santa.
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  3. #253
    Senior Member Defy Gravity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daisylane View Post
    This is why I fucking avoid this case like the plague. Everyone has really SOLID opinions, based on a fucked investigation. There will never be answers, only speculation, and it's all shit. I don't even think of this as a case about a little girl.

    Someone got away with this because of multiple incompetencies, not because they were clever. I still think that someone was Santa.
    LOL, they cleared Santa...


    (There was that one guy that dressed up as Santa that they cleared. That would have been ironic though had it been that guy though wouldn't it...on Christmas day.)

  4. #254
    What do you care? Boston Babe 73's Avatar
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    I'm not convinced that it's the Family because, believe me, if they had left any kind of solid evidence that it was them that they'd be in jail. They had tunnel vision for them and were just itching to convict them. Let's admit that they didn't seem "crime scene cover up" saavy.

    On the other hand, their actions are so fucking weird and "off" that you want to believe that one of them did it.

    I seriously think that an outsider did it and upon discovering her, they panicked and just assumed it was Burke based on his obvious untreated personality issues. They had only a short amount of time to save their Son (in their minds he did it) and do everything they can in a panick to deflect blame away from him. Thus the ridiculous note.

    I can't get past the fact that she was a pedophile's dream come true, very public and foreign DNA. And picturing a 9 year old boy sneaking down with her in the basement, fashioning a garrote and doing her in. Then heading back to bed. Really think about what that kid had to do to accomplish this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Miller22 View Post
    I thought the exact same thing. Poor Brennen Tammons.
    Oh well, back to gum.
    ....or exchanging Puke's wang for spicy nuts.
    Quote Originally Posted by animosity View Post
    I know, right? What the fuck, puke? Willing to take in Boston, an Irish dude and like, 17 dogs but not Ron? poor Ron.

  5. #255
    Member tinaturner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Babe 73 View Post
    I'm not convinced that it's the Family because, believe me, if they had left any kind of solid evidence that it was them that they'd be in jail. They had tunnel vision for them and were just itching to convict them. Let's admit that they didn't seem "crime scene cover up" saavy.

    On the other hand, their actions are so fucking weird and "off" that you want to believe that one of them did it.

    I seriously think that an outsider did it and upon discovering her, they panicked and just assumed it was Burke based on his obvious untreated personality issues. They had only a short amount of time to save their Son (in their minds he did it) and do everything they can in a panick to deflect blame away from him. Thus the ridiculous note.

    I can't get past the fact that she was a pedophile's dream come true, very public and foreign DNA. And picturing a 9 year old boy sneaking down with her in the basement, fashioning a garrote and doing her in. Then heading back to bed. Really think about what that kid had to do to accomplish this.
    Apparently the Ramsey's actually had quite a bit of power in controlling the investigation. They didn't even give police interviews for weeks after the killing and even though a grand jury indicted them the DA chose not to prosecute.

    I totally respect your opinion and I'm not trying to sway you but the theory is that Burke hit jonbenet in the head with a flashlight which was severe enough that she was brain dead. The garrotte was part of the cover up by the parents which seems extreme but they may have felt they had to make it appear like a horrible person did this.

  6. #256
    What do you care? Boston Babe 73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinaturner View Post
    Apparently the Ramsey's actually had quite a bit of power in controlling the investigation. They didn't even give police interviews for weeks after the killing and even though a grand jury indicted them the DA chose not to prosecute.

    I totally respect your opinion and I'm not trying to sway you but the theory is that Burke hit jonbenet in the head with a flashlight which was severe enough that she was brain dead. The garrotte was part of the cover up by the parents which seems extreme but they may have felt they had to make it appear like a horrible person did this.
    But didn't they test the scene for DNA and not find theirs? How did they pull off washing of theirs yet leaving the foreign DNA in tact?
    Quote Originally Posted by Miller22 View Post
    I thought the exact same thing. Poor Brennen Tammons.
    Oh well, back to gum.
    ....or exchanging Puke's wang for spicy nuts.
    Quote Originally Posted by animosity View Post
    I know, right? What the fuck, puke? Willing to take in Boston, an Irish dude and like, 17 dogs but not Ron? poor Ron.

  7. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    Do you even read threads at all?
    I read evidence and she was the only who could've wrote the note based on expert analysis. That's been known for twenty years.

  8. #258
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    Burke cracked her skull, Patsy wrote the note, John staged the scene and finished her off /endthread

  9. #259
    Moderator bowieluva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frank benny View Post
    I read evidence and she was the only who could've wrote the note based on expert analysis. That's been known for twenty years.
    This has been discussed ad nauseum in the thread. It's very rude to just blurt your shit out and not interact with or acknowledge the posters on this board. If all you want is to shout your opinions, start a blog, don't join a discussion.

  10. #260
    Member scorpienne's Avatar
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    If the working theory is: Burke caused the fatal head wound, John/Patsy staged the rest ... what trips me up is the garrote. Most experts say that JonBenet's head wound was severe enough to have rendered her unconscious immediately. John Kolar, the guest of the Reddit AMA thread that some kind soul linked to in this thread, said the head wound came first and the garrote finished her off. It's important to remember that the head wound was not visible to the naked eye; the forensic scientists performing the autopsy did not realize at first that JonBenet had suffered a massive skull fracture.

    So if the above is true, then Burke clubbed his sister with a flashlight, rendering her unconscious, than this means one of her parents fashioned the garrote and finished her off. So then ... they found an unconscious JonBenet, and would not have been able to determine to the naked eye that she had a fatal head wound. She would have still been alive. They would not have been able to determine how bad the skuil fracture was ... all they would have had to go on would be an unconscious but still alive child, and another kid who may or may not have copped to hitting her hard.

    So instead of assuming she has a concussion or similar and could be saved, which is the conclusion most parents would jump to (not wanting to believe the worst), instead of rushing her to the hospital they ... fashion a garrote and strangle their six-year-old daughter with such violence as to leave furrows and abrasions all up and down her throat?

    Then there were the half-moon fingernail marks above and below the garrote, indicating she was conscious and clawing at her throat trying to get it off. (Above and below means her nails were digging into exposed skin and not into the fabric of a shirt collar) ... well then that means that the garrote came first and then the head wound came later.

    The alternative theory is that Burke clubbed her with the flashlight, then finished her off himself with the garrote, and John/Patsy staged after they found their daughter dead, clubbed, and strangled. I have a MUCH harder time believing this than the kid lashed out once and hit her with more force than he intended.'

    Burke has said he did hit his sister in the face with a golf club, accidentally, as she was behind him when he swung and he didn't see her and caught her on the backswing. I have a scar on my face 40+ years after my sister accidentally hit me in the face with a baseball bat when I ran up behind her as she was swinging. It's a pretty common injury.

    Also, John has said before that he and Burke put together a toy that night and then they both went upstairs. I'd heard that before this latest round of documentaries. The "putting together a toy" revelation was not the big a-HA moment for me than it was for others. I could also imagine that moment in parenting: the kid's too obsessed with the toy to go to sleep; parent stays up and helps him put it together so he'll go to bed already.

    Not saying Burke didn't do it ... but the above and more constitutes enough reasonable doubt with me that I wouldn't convict him if I were a juror.

  11. #261
    Senior Member puzzld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scorpienne View Post
    Not saying Burke didn't do it ... but the above and more constitutes enough reasonable doubt with me that I wouldn't convict him if I were a juror.
    Yep. I just don't see doting parents finishing their daughter off & and I have a hard time seeing Burke as a cold blooded, deliberate murderer. Could be, but I doubt it. I realize the ransom note seems damning, but really, anyone who'd sneak into someones house to kidnap or kill their child might just be nuts enough to write that note while waiting for the family to get home.
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    lol at Nestle being some vicious smiter, she's the nicest person on this site besides probably puzzld. Or at least the last person to resort to smiting.
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    Why on earth would I smite you when I can ban you?

  12. #262
    Senior Member queenaevadamthng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frank benny View Post
    I read evidence and she was the only who could've wrote the note based on expert analysis. That's been known for twenty years.
    The analysis of the hand writing was inconclusive. There were several experts who had very different opinions.

    In the documentary it was mentioned that there were little half moon shaped scratches that were possibly made by Jon Benet trying to free herself when she was being strangled.. If that was the case, then the head wound came after she was strangled. BUT, I don't recall if the eximiners found her own skin under her nails. I'll have to go back and see if that was brought up.

    I would like to believe that Jon Benet was not murdered by someone in her immediate family. I can understand why the Ramseys weren't put on trial because there is enough reasonable doubt both ways that they would have had a hard time making a conviction stick.


    "Theoretical physics can prove that an elephant can hang from a cliff with its tail tied to a daisy. But use your eyes, your common sense".... JIM GARRISON

  13. #263
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    https://www.apus.edu/content/dam/onl...erkey-2006.pdf page 21

    They knew she wrote the fake note and could have indicted her for at least obstruction of justice . She was the only suspect for writing the note and it certainly had to be someone who knew the Ramseys.

    According the Colorado Bureau of Investigation?s handwriting expert Chet
    Ubowski, ?there is evidence which indicates the ransom note may have been written by
    Patricia Ramsey.?56 He also told Boulder authorities that 24 of the 26 letters of the
    alphabet
    (as written in the ransom note) matched Patsy Ramsey.57

    Dr. Donald Foster of Vassar identified Patsy Ramsey as the author of the ransom
    note
    .

    Based on their studies of the evidence we provided, they
    believed the note was written in the home, after the murder,
    and
    indicated panic. Ransom notes are normally written prior to the crime,
    usually proofread, and not written by hand, in order to disguise the
    authorship.

    The FBI deemed the entire crime ?criminally unsophisticated,?
    citing the child being left on the premises, the disingenuous $118,000
    demand in relation to the net worth of the family
    , the description of the
    accomplices as ?gentlemen,? and the concept of a ransom delivery
    where one would be ?scanned for electronic devices.? Kidnappers
    prefer isolated drops for the ransom delivery, not a face-to-face
    meeting.

  14. #264
    Senior Member Jezebelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frank benny View Post
    https://www.apus.edu/content/dam/onl...erkey-2006.pdf page 21

    They knew she wrote the fake note and could have indicted her for at least obstruction of justice . She was the only suspect for writing the note and it certainly had to be someone who knew the Ramseys.

    According the Colorado Bureau of Investigation?s handwriting expert Chet
    Ubowski, ?there is evidence which indicates the ransom note may have been written by
    Patricia Ramsey.?56 He also told Boulder authorities that 24 of the 26 letters of the
    alphabet
    (as written in the ransom note) matched Patsy Ramsey.57

    Dr. Donald Foster of Vassar identified Patsy Ramsey as the author of the ransom
    note
    .

    Based on their studies of the evidence we provided, they
    believed the note was written in the home, after the murder,
    and
    indicated panic. Ransom notes are normally written prior to the crime,
    usually proofread, and not written by hand, in order to disguise the
    authorship.

    The FBI deemed the entire crime ?criminally unsophisticated,?
    citing the child being left on the premises, the disingenuous $118,000
    demand in relation to the net worth of the family
    , the description of the
    accomplices as ?gentlemen,? and the concept of a ransom delivery
    where one would be ?scanned for electronic devices.? Kidnappers
    prefer isolated drops for the ransom delivery, not a face-to-face
    meeting.
    Did anyone already mention if Colorado allows testimony about handwriting analysis in murder/kidnapping/etc trials? (I *think* that this was already addressed somewhere, but I'm not 100% certain)

  15. #265
    Senior Member bermstalker's Avatar
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    The ransom note- it has been proven that the ransom note was written on Patsy's notepad with Patsy's pen. The notepad was kept in a drawer and the pen was beside the phone.
    Both were put back.

    Somebody took the time to get the notepad and pen- they sat down for at least 20 minutes and wrote the note. Then they put everything back where it went. (The 20 minutes is ME assuming because the CBS special showed that it took 20 minutes to handwrite the note)


    Burke also admitted on Dr. Phil that he went back downstairs to play after everybody was asleep. This is after John helped him put a toy together. After that, everybody went to sleep. He came back downstairs to finish playing with the toy. He also said he "might" have eaten some pineapple. He couldn't remember.

    Also- the flashlight was completely cleaned off. Somebody even took the batteries out and wiped them clean.

  16. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jezebelle View Post
    Did anyone already mention if Colorado allows testimony about handwriting analysis in murder/kidnapping/etc trials? (I *think* that this was already addressed somewhere, but I'm not 100% certain)
    It can be used just based listening to forensic files. It would've challenged like anything else.

    Quote Originally Posted by bermstalker View Post
    The ransom note- it has been proven that the ransom note was written on Patsy's notepad with Patsy's pen. The notepad was kept in a drawer and the pen was beside the phone.
    Both were put back.

    Somebody took the time to get the notepad and pen- they sat down for at least 20 minutes and wrote the note. Then they put everything back where it went. (The 20 minutes is ME assuming because the CBS special showed that it took 20 minutes to handwrite the note)


    Burke also admitted on Dr. Phil that he went back downstairs to play after everybody was asleep. This is after John helped him put a toy together. After that, everybody went to sleep. He came back downstairs to finish playing with the toy. He also said he "might" have eaten some pineapple. He couldn't remember.

    Also- the flashlight was completely cleaned off. Somebody even took the batteries out and wiped them clean.
    Poor kid looks just like Patsy. Don't forget about the practice note in the garbage. I didn't know Burke went downstairs but remember the enhanced 911 audio.

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  18. #268
    Senior Member daisylane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frank benny View Post
    I enjoyed the warning, Benny.

    He is ... feminine. He reminds me of Elijah Wood. Gross.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazarus View Post
    gangsta rap does not help the youth
    Quote Originally Posted by bermstalker View Post
    DONT MAKE ME FUCK YOUR BITCH THAT PUSSY POPPIN

  19. #269
    Senior Member songbirdsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bermstalker View Post
    The ransom note- it has been proven that the ransom note was written on Patsy's notepad with Patsy's pen. The notepad was kept in a drawer and the pen was beside the phone.
    Both were put back.

    Somebody took the time to get the notepad and pen- they sat down for at least 20 minutes and wrote the note. Then they put everything back where it went. (The 20 minutes is ME assuming because the CBS special showed that it took 20 minutes to handwrite the note)


    Burke also admitted on Dr. Phil that he went back downstairs to play after everybody was asleep. This is after John helped him put a toy together. After that, everybody went to sleep. He came back downstairs to finish playing with the toy. He also said he "might" have eaten some pineapple. He couldn't remember.

    Also- the flashlight was completely cleaned off. Somebody even took the batteries out and wiped them clean.
    I don't think it ever would have occurred to me to remove the batteries from the flashlight and wipe them down, unless maybe it was a brand new flashlight? I dunno, it just seemed extra-thoughtful. Maybe if there had been a lot of blood, but apparently that wasn't the case.

    Quote Originally Posted by daisylane View Post
    I enjoyed the warning, Benny.

    He is ... feminine. He reminds me of Elijah Wood. Gross.
    That creepy tight-lipped smile makes him look like a clean-cut Oswald Cobblepot. No offense to Robin Taylor, who is adorable.




    Okay this is the part where I admit he's kind of pretty, or at least he would be if he hadn't killed his sister and smeared poo on her candy.
    Quote Originally Posted by animosity View Post
    Just as I suspected. A ring of elderly pedophiles.
    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Love View Post
    Fucking piece of shit, fucking scum, internet ass holes. fucking ingrate no life having fat ass. you have no fucking clue at whats going on fuck tard shit for brains.

  20. #270
    Senior Member puzzld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by songbirdsong View Post
    I don't think it ever would have occurred to me to remove the batteries from the flashlight and wipe them down, unless maybe it was a brand new flashlight? I dunno, it just seemed extra-thoughtful. Maybe if there had been a lot of blood, but apparently that wasn't the case.

    Or the housekeeper put batteries in the flashlight while wearing cleaning gloves. Or... I don't think you can put a lot of weight on that.

    I think the "Burke killed her and the 'rents covered it up" makes a lot of sense and if that's the case we may one day learn the truth (ala Martha Moxley) when Burke's AA buddies start talking.

    But given the number the police and the DA did on the crime scene? Believe Half Of What You See (And None Of What You Hear) is my motto.
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    lol at Nestle being some vicious smiter, she's the nicest person on this site besides probably puzzld. Or at least the last person to resort to smiting.
    Quote Originally Posted by nestlequikie View Post
    Why on earth would I smite you when I can ban you?

  21. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by daisylane View Post
    I enjoyed the warning, Benny.

    He is ... feminine. He reminds me of Elijah Wood. Gross.
    It's called prepotency. I learned about it from Cobain. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/prepotency

    2. Genetics The ability of one parent, variety, or strain to transmit individual traits to an offspring, apparently to the exclusion of the other parent, variety, or strain.



  22. #272
    Senior Member daisylane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frank benny View Post
    It's called prepotency. I learned about it from Cobain. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/prepotency

    2. Genetics The ability of one parent, variety, or strain to transmit individual traits to an offspring, apparently to the exclusion of the other parent, variety, or strain.


    Please don't tell me you think C-Love killed Cobain?

    But word, interesting Benny!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazarus View Post
    gangsta rap does not help the youth
    Quote Originally Posted by bermstalker View Post
    DONT MAKE ME FUCK YOUR BITCH THAT PUSSY POPPIN

  23. #273
    Member scorpienne's Avatar
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    Kurt Cobain aside, Burke Ramsey is a super attractive young guy. His mother was beautiful, his sister was beautiful. He looks like both of them and he is a good-looking dude. Sorry not sorry.

  24. #274
    Senior Member bermstalker's Avatar
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    JonBenet Ramsey's older brother files defamation suit against pathologist who told media that Burke Ramsey killed his 6-year-old sister.

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/j...14?cid=abcn_fb

    The older brother of JonBenet Ramsey filed a defamation lawsuit Thursday against a Michigan forensic pathologist who told a Detroit-area media outlet that Burke Ramsey killed his 6-year-old sister.

    The complaint alleges that Dr. Werner Spitz said in a Sept. 19 interview that 9-year-old Burke bludgeoned JonBenet to death in 1996.

    "Spitz made this accusation without ever examining JonBenet's body, without viewing the crime scene, and without consulting with the pathologist who performed the autopsy on JonBenet," the complaint filed in Wayne County Circuit Court in Detroit says.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daisylane View Post
    Please don't tell me you think C-Love killed Cobain?

    But word, interesting Benny!
    I believe in Tom Grant's investigation. It's one of the first cases that grabbed my attention back in the day. She should not have hired a P.I. Big mistake...HUGE.

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