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Thread: Jahi McMath (13) died for real five years after she was declared brain dead following surgery complications

  1. #51
    Senior Member animosity's Avatar
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    but how can you win a malpractice suit when you allow the dead child's body to heal itself, covering all traces of the actual cause of death?

    i'm pretty sure they had to have insurance for her. how else would you have ongoing medical care and procedures for all of her problems?
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  2. #52
    Senior Member puzzld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by animosity View Post
    but how can you win a malpractice suit when you allow the dead child's body to heal itself, covering all traces of the actual cause of death?

    i'm pretty sure they had to have insurance for her. how else would you have ongoing medical care and procedures for all of her problems?
    Well there is that. She might be covered by Medicaid.
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    lol at Nestle being some vicious smiter, she's the nicest person on this site besides probably puzzld. Or at least the last person to resort to smiting.
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  3. #53
    Senior Member morbidT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by puzzld View Post
    Meh. They'll recoup the money from the movie and book deal when this child walks out of the hospital. Or from the malpractice suit.

    I think what happened to poor Jahi is tragic, but these people are making things worse much worse, than they need to be.
    I lol'd at the movie/book deal, but there will no doubt be a malpractice suit.

    I completely agree with you.

    Quote Originally Posted by animosity View Post
    but how can you win a malpractice suit when you allow the dead child's body to heal itself, covering all traces of the actual cause of death?

    i'm pretty sure they had to have insurance for her. how else would you have ongoing medical care and procedures for all of her problems?
    A tonsillectomy is a pretty standard procedure. The family is probably going to use that to their advantage. Nevermind the consent they signed that stated there are risks involved, including death.

    Good point about ongoing medical care for her problems. And as puzz said, she could have Medicaid.


    Quote Originally Posted by blighted star View Post
    ..... it wasn't anything personal, she just mistook him for a serial killer......

  4. #54
    Senior Member Music's Avatar
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    Will insurance cover someone who has been declared dead? She was declared dead, right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by puzzld View Post
    Well there is that. She might be covered by Medicaid.
    Medicaid doesn't have to pay. I have taken my son to the ER at 3 am with 103 degree fever, turns out he had the flu, and Medicaid tried to deny the claim, saying I should have taken him to an after hours clinic. It was only after the doctor pointed out that all the after hour clinics are closed at 3 in the morning did they pay.

  6. #56
    Senior Member puzzld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blueyedgirlmjag View Post
    Medicaid doesn't have to pay. I have taken my son to the ER at 3 am with 103 degree fever, turns out he had the flu, and Medicaid tried to deny the claim, saying I should have taken him to an after hours clinic. It was only after the doctor pointed out that all the after hour clinics are closed at 3 in the morning did they pay.
    Oh, I know medicaid and medicare don't have to pay... I just meant that the family might not have insurance per se.
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    lol at Nestle being some vicious smiter, she's the nicest person on this site besides probably puzzld. Or at least the last person to resort to smiting.
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  7. #57
    Senior Member Angiebla's Avatar
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    Um those comments from the ppl on fb... the doctors told them their kid was brain dead but in a coma and he woke up. Well a coma and being brain dead are two separate issues. They are ignorant.

    Speaking of ignorant...a lady came in to my work with a dog that had a big old tumor-it was actually there for something else-when we mentioned the tumor to her, her response was "I'm going to pray over it". I believe in God, but he is not shrinking no damn tumors! WTF people?!?

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    Senior Member Music's Avatar
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    I hate the 'pray it away' mentality. When has that ever actually worked?

  9. #59
    Senior Member morbidT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Music View Post
    Will insurance cover someone who has been declared dead? She was declared dead, right?

    No, insurance will not cover costs on a dead persons stay in the hospital. That's what I was saying. The family is going to shit a brick when they get the bill.

    She was pronounced last Thursday, right? So this has been going on a week now.


    Quote Originally Posted by blighted star View Post
    ..... it wasn't anything personal, she just mistook him for a serial killer......

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    Senior Member Music's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morbidT View Post
    No, insurance will not cover costs on a dead persons stay in the hospital. That's what I was saying. The family is going to shit a brick when they get the bill.

    She was pronounced last Thursday, right? So this has been going on a week now.
    They're just digging themselves a hole. I hope they realize soon that she's not coming back...

  11. #61
    Senior Member morbidT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Music View Post
    They're just digging themselves a hole. I hope they realize soon that she's not coming back...

    They won't ever realize it as long as they have ignorant people supporting them. I think the only way they will realize it is when her heart literally stops. I'm sure the organs are starting to fail at this post and she's probably swollen from fluids being pumped into her.


    Quote Originally Posted by blighted star View Post
    ..... it wasn't anything personal, she just mistook him for a serial killer......

  12. #62
    has supermodel tits neenerneener's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morbidT View Post
    They won't ever realize it as long as they have ignorant people supporting them. I think the only way they will realize it is when her heart literally stops. I'm sure the organs are starting to fail at this post and she's probably swollen from fluids being pumped into her.
    ugh. stupid people frustrate me. I'm sure the doctors have shown her family the scans showing proof of brain death, they're just too dumb to understand it. I hope the hospital pulls the plug.
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    I find it amazing how many people in the comments sections of news sites and on other forums are comparing this to the Terri Schiavo case. "She might recover!!!11 Don't give up on her too early like they did Terri Schiavo!!11"

    Bullshit.

    Vegetative states and brain death are two very different things. One can be recovered from in many cases, the other absolutely can NOT. Also, the tonsillectomy is a pretty notorious procedure. A large (relative to other procedures) amount of people develop significant bleeding post surgery which can be problematic. The parents seem ill-informed of the surgery as evidenced by them expecting it to cure all of her ailments in one fell swoop. Perhaps they should have tried putting her on a diet and getting her healthy before putting a child with numerous risk factors in an operating room?

    I feel bad for the parents; nobody should have to lose a child. That being said, they are in the wrong here and they should let her go. I'm not one to tell somebody how to grieve but prolonging the inevitable is just adding stress to the family, the doctors and a whole host of other innocents.
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  14. #64
    What do you care? Boston Babe 73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morbidT View Post
    They won't ever realize it as long as they have ignorant people supporting them. I think the only way they will realize it is when her heart literally stops. I'm sure the organs are starting to fail at this post and she's probably swollen from fluids being pumped into her.
    This makes me sick. They they will allow this dead child to lay there dead until her insides rot before letting her go. Pure craziness.
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    I thought the exact same thing. Poor Brennen Tammons.
    Oh well, back to gum.
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    I know, right? What the fuck, puke? Willing to take in Boston, an Irish dude and like, 17 dogs but not Ron? poor Ron.

  15. #65
    Senior Member morbidT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neenerneener View Post
    ugh. stupid people frustrate me. I'm sure the doctors have shown her family the scans showing proof of brain death, they're just too dumb to understand it. I hope the hospital pulls the plug.
    Oh, I bet the docs have the films hanging in her room. If they don't, they should. I hope the hospital pulls the plug, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gram Parsons View Post
    I find it amazing how many people in the comments sections of news sites and on other forums are comparing this to the Terri Schiavo case. "She might recover!!!11 Don't give up on her too early like they did Terri Schiavo!!11"

    Bullshit.

    Vegetative states and brain death are two very different things. One can be recovered from in many cases, the other absolutely can NOT. Also, the tonsillectomy is a pretty notorious procedure. A large (relative to other procedures) amount of people develop significant bleeding post surgery which can be problematic. The parents seem ill-informed of the surgery as evidenced by them expecting it to cure all of her ailments in one fell swoop. Perhaps they should have tried putting her on a diet and getting her healthy before putting a child with numerous risk factors in an operating room?

    I feel bad for the parents; nobody should have to lose a child. That being said, they are in the wrong here and they should let her go. I'm not one to tell somebody how to grieve but prolonging the inevitable is just adding stress to the family, the doctors and a whole host of other innocents.
    I've been waiting for the Teri Schiavo comparison. I haven't read any comments on any articles or the FB page since the other night. I just can't with those people. I also saw where they compared her to Trayvon Martin and Kendrick Johnson. The people were calling the hospital staff murderers. Actually, they didn't know how to spell murderer so they just called them murders.

    I'm sure the docs are kicking themselves in the butt now for being accommodating and showing the extreme compassion this family has been afforded.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Babe 73 View Post
    This makes me sick. They they will allow this dead child to lay there dead until her insides rot before letting her go. Pure craziness.
    She ain't dead, yo! :eyeroll:


    Quote Originally Posted by blighted star View Post
    ..... it wasn't anything personal, she just mistook him for a serial killer......

  16. #66
    fun hater Shins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angiebla View Post
    Um those comments from the ppl on fb... the doctors told them their kid was brain dead but in a coma and he woke up. Well a coma and being brain dead are two separate issues. They are ignorant.

    Speaking of ignorant...a lady came in to my work with a dog that had a big old tumor-it was actually there for something else-when we mentioned the tumor to her, her response was "I'm going to pray over it". I believe in God, but he is not shrinking no damn tumors! WTF people?!?
    Because magic.
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    Senior Member blighted star's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angiebla View Post
    Um those comments from the ppl on fb... the doctors told them their kid was brain dead but in a coma and he woke up. Well a coma and being brain dead are two separate issues. They are ignorant.

    Speaking of ignorant...a lady came in to my work with a dog that had a big old tumor-it was actually there for something else-when we mentioned the tumor to her, her response was "I'm going to pray over it". I believe in God, but he is not shrinking no damn tumors! WTF people?!?

    Well it was a dog. The poor dear probably has dyslexia.

  18. #68
    Senior Member Music's Avatar
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    It's in god's hands you guise.

  19. #69
    Senior Member *crickets*'s Avatar
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    JESUS WILL HEAL HER.

  20. #70
    What do you care? Boston Babe 73's Avatar
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    They could always change her name to Lazarus. That will do the trick.

    Shame on these asshats giving the family false hope. I won't go near the FB Page. I would rather dry shave my legs in the dead of Winter with a brand new cheap disposable razor from CVS.
    Quote Originally Posted by Miller22 View Post
    I thought the exact same thing. Poor Brennen Tammons.
    Oh well, back to gum.
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    Quote Originally Posted by animosity View Post
    I know, right? What the fuck, puke? Willing to take in Boston, an Irish dude and like, 17 dogs but not Ron? poor Ron.

  21. #71
    Senior Member *crickets*'s Avatar
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    A lot of the FB commenters really believe Jesus will heal her. Desperate (and ignorant) people believe in miracles.

  22. #72
    Senior Member CanaryDiam's Avatar
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    JUDGE ORDERS HOSPITAL TO KEEP BRAIN DEAD TEEN ON LIFE SUPPORT

    http://www.koaa.com/news/judge-order...-life-support/

    OAKLAND, Calif. (AP) - A judge on Friday ordered a California hospital to keep a girl declared brain dead on life support following what was supposed to be a routine tonsillectomy.

    The ruling by Superior Court Judge Evelio Grillo came as both sides in the case agreed to get together and chose a neurologist to further examine 13-year-old Jahi McMath and determine her condition. Another hearing was set for Monday.

    The girl's family sought the court order to keep Jahi on a ventilator while the second opinion is sought. They left the courtroom without commenting.

    The family says doctors at Children's Hospital Oakland wanted to disconnect life support after Jahi was declared brain dead on Dec. 12.

    After her daughter underwent a supposedly routine tonsillectomy and was moved to a recovery room, Nailah Winkfield began to fear something was going horribly wrong.

    Jahi was sitting up in bed, her hospital gown bloody, and holding a pink cup full of blood.

    "Is this normal?" Winkfield repeatedly asked nurses.

    With her family and hospital staff trying to help and comfort her, Jahi kept bleeding profusely for the next few hours then went into cardiac arrest, her mother said.

    Hospital officials said they couldn't discuss the case because the family hasn't given them permission to do so.

    In a statement late Thursday, Dr. David Durand, the hospital's pediatrics chief, wrote of Jahi's case: "We are unable - without the family's permission - to talk about the medical procedure, background or any of the details that are a part of this tragedy.

    "We implore the family to allow the hospital to openly discuss what has occurred and to give us the necessary legal permission - which it has been withholding - that would bring clarity, and we believe, some measure of closure and deeper understanding of this medical case," the doctor added.

    In an interview at Children's Hospital Oakland on Thursday night, Winkfield described the nightmarish turn of events after her daughter underwent tonsil removal surgery to help with her sleep apnea.

    She said that even before the surgery, her daughter had expressed fears that she wouldn't wake up after the operation. To everyone's relief, she appeared alert, was talking and even ate a Popsicle afterward.

    But about a half-hour later, shortly after the girl was taken to the intensive care unit, she began bleeding from her mouth and nose despite efforts by hospital staff and her family.

    While the bleeding continued, Jahi wrote her mother notes. In one, the girl asked to have her nose wiped because she felt it running. Her mother said she didn't want to scare her daughter by saying it was blood.

    Family members said there were containers of Jahi's blood in the room, and hospital staff members were providing transfusions to counteract the blood loss.

    "I don't know what a tonsillectomy is supposed to look like after you have it, but that blood was un-normal for anything," Winkfield said.

    The family said hospital officials told them in a meeting Thursday that they want to take the girl off life support quickly.

    "I just looked at the doctor to his face and I told him you better not touch her," Winkfield recalled.

    Hospitals do a barrage of sophisticated tests to determine brain death, said Dr. Cristobal Barrios, an associate professor and a trauma and critical care surgeon at the University of California, Irvine. He is not involved in Jahi's care and spoke about general hospital protocols.

    The tests include touching a patient's cornea to elicit a blink, moving a breathing tube to stimulate a gag reflex, tickling the back of the throat to bring on a cough, and applying pressure or pain.

    If the patient fails to respond to all of those tests, doctors remove the breathing tube for a few minutes. If there is any brain activity, the patient should begin breathing within a few minutes, he said.

    In some cases, doctors will also draw a blood sample, add radioactive tags and re-inject it into the body to track where it flows. If the blood doesn't flow to the brain, Barrios said, there is no brain activity.

    Generally, two teams of specialists must run the tests and determine independently that the patient is brain dead, he said. At UC Irvine, those evaluations must take place 12 hours apart if the patient is a child.

    Barrios said it's not unusual for family members to resist a diagnosis of brain death.

    While the hospital is not obligated to keep life support going after that diagnosis, Barrios has left brain dead patients hooked up for up to five days while family members move toward acceptance, he said.

    "I understand why sometimes for families it's devastating and confusing," he said.

  23. #73
    Senior Member Angiebla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by *crickets* View Post
    A lot of the FB commenters really believe Jesus will heal her. Desperate (and ignorant) people believe in miracles.
    What's going to happen is she will never wake up and these people will blame Jesus poor dude gets a bad wrap because of people like this. God made doctors for a reason! It really really pisses me off when people say dumb shit like "these doctors are trying to murder this girl because she's black and they don't want to see her survive and prosper". Seriously I want to hurt people that say that shit.

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  24. #74
    What do you care? Boston Babe 73's Avatar
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    The ruling by Superior Court Judge Evelio Grillo came as both sides in the case agreed to get together and chose a neurologist to further examine 13-year-old Jahi McMath and determine her condition. Another hearing was set for Monday.The girl's family sought the court order to keep Jahi on a ventilator while the second opinion is sought. They left the courtroom without commenting.

    Okay...this other Dr. will tell them she's dead and they'll finally bury the girl. I understand having a hard time coming to terms. But what this Family is doing is bordering on desecration of a corpse. They are doing nothing to honor this child. I'm starting to suspect that they're enjoying the attention and press at this point.
    Quote Originally Posted by Miller22 View Post
    I thought the exact same thing. Poor Brennen Tammons.
    Oh well, back to gum.
    ....or exchanging Puke's wang for spicy nuts.
    Quote Originally Posted by animosity View Post
    I know, right? What the fuck, puke? Willing to take in Boston, an Irish dude and like, 17 dogs but not Ron? poor Ron.

  25. #75
    Senior Member morbidT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanaryDiam View Post
    JUDGE ORDERS HOSPITAL TO KEEP BRAIN DEAD TEEN ON LIFE SUPPORT

    http://www.koaa.com/news/judge-order...-life-support/
    Hospitals do a barrage of sophisticated tests to determine brain death, said Dr. Cristobal Barrios, an associate professor and a trauma and critical care surgeon at the University of California, Irvine. He is not involved in Jahi's care and spoke about general hospital protocols.

    The tests include touching a patient's cornea to elicit a blink, moving a breathing tube to stimulate a gag reflex, tickling the back of the throat to bring on a cough, and applying pressure or pain.

    If the patient fails to respond to all of those tests, doctors remove the breathing tube for a few minutes. If there is any brain activity, the patient should begin breathing within a few minutes, he said.

    In some cases, doctors will also draw a blood sample, add radioactive tags and re-inject it into the body to track where it flows. If the blood doesn't flow to the brain, Barrios said, there is no brain activity.

    Generally, two teams of specialists must run the tests and determine independently that the patient is brain dead, he said. At UC Irvine, those evaluations must take place 12 hours apart if the patient is a child.

    Barrios said it's not unusual for family members to resist a diagnosis of brain death.

    While the hospital is not obligated to keep life support going after that diagnosis, Barrios has left brain dead patients hooked up for up to five days while family members move toward acceptance, he said.

    "I understand why sometimes for families it's devastating and confusing," he said.
    These tests have been repeated, repeated, and repeated and the kid hasn't made any attempts to wake up.

    Also, brain death testing 12 hours apart is very standard even with adults. The official pronouncement of death comes with the second test even though the person was just as dead with the first test. The tests are done like that because of people who could not understand their loved one is dead. Now, there are hospitals trying to show compassion and we end up with a kid on a vent for over a week. There has got to be a line. Families of cardiac death patients aren't afforded the same luxury. They are told 'sorry, your loved on didn't make it,' and life goes on. The two brain death tests at 12 hours apart should be it. They should be told before the first one what the test is for, what the prognosis is, and what protocol is after the second test; that the vent will be shut off. That way, the family has another 12 hours to accept it. End of story.



    Quote Originally Posted by Angiebla View Post
    What's going to happen is she will never wake up and these people will blame Jesus poor dude gets a bad wrap because of people like this. God made doctors for a reason! It really really pisses me off when people say dumb shit like "these doctors are trying to murder this girl because she's black and they don't want to see her survive and prosper". Seriously I want to hurt people that say that shit.


    Oh, I don't think Jesus will get the blame. The hospital, staff, and doctors will get the blame. Jesus and God will get praise. "God needed a new angel. God only takes the good ones first. Praise Jesus they got another x amount of days with her before the courts allowed the hospital to murder her by turning off the vent."


    Quote Originally Posted by blighted star View Post
    ..... it wasn't anything personal, she just mistook him for a serial killer......

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