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Thread: Jahi McMath (13) died for real five years after she was declared brain dead following surgery complications

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by morbidT View Post
    Depends on the OPO region you die in. Age used to be a big one but I think most, if not all, OPO's have decided age does not make you ineligible. Socio-medical history is going to play the biggest part; alcohol, drugs, health issues, gay butt secks, tattoos that are less than a year old, professional tattoo vs. a cousin who has a tattoo machine (sorry emmie I can't remember the real term), recent jail time, hypertension, diabetes, genetic disorders, cancer. None of these things make a person ineligible, but they will be considered. Tests may be ordered as well.

    Also, how did the person die? Brain injuries usually provide the best organs (once the socio-medical history has passed) because there has been no trauma to the organs. Sometimes, gunshot wounds (throughout torso), car accidents, and other traumatic bodily injuries may have caused too much damage to the organs.

    There used to be really strict guidelines. There are some cancers that automatically make someone ineligible. Sepsis is usually automatic, too.

    The issue with the amount of organ donors is only 1% of the population become brain dead. The other 99% die from cardiac death and are only eligible for tissue donation and not organ donation.

    I probably should have worded my previous post differently regarding the 1% of people who become brain dead. Those are the people who are considered for organ donation. Some of the families say no, so not all 1% are donors. So, less than 1% of the population actually become organ donors.

    Say no to seat belts and helmets! And own more guns!

    I keed. I keed.
    At this point though (almost two weeks on the ventilator), how viable are her organs for transplant? I think in another thread you said that the vent causes cooties in lungs, right? What about the rest of her organs?

  2. #152
    Moderator puzzld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisedbywolves View Post
    At this point though (almost two weeks on the ventilator), how viable are her organs for transplant? I think in another thread you said that the vent causes cooties in lungs, right? What about the rest of her organs?
    I sincerely doubt that this family would agree to transplant in any case.
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  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by puzzld View Post
    I sincerely doubt that this family would agree to transplant in any case.
    I totally doubt it too...I'm just curious.

  4. #154
    What do you care? Boston Babe 73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisedbywolves View Post
    I totally doubt it too...I'm just curious.
    Yeah. I'm pretty sure that ship has sailed.

    So. Any Christmas miracles? She was supposed to wake up today. Didn't God "spark her brain back to life" yet? According to them it was on his schedule today.
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    That is too pretty to be shoved up an ass.
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  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Babe 73 View Post
    Yeah. I'm pretty sure that ship has sailed.

    So. Any Christmas miracles? She was supposed to wake up today. Didn't God "spark her brain back to life" yet? According to them it was on his schedule today.
    Doesn't God get to take today off as a paid holiday like pretty much everyone else?

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    Certified Grumple Bottoms Ron_NYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisedbywolves View Post
    Doesn't God get to take today off as a paid holiday like pretty much everyone else?
    Then explain Christmas Miracles, dumb ass.
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    Ron was the best part, hands down.

  7. #157
    Moderator puzzld's Avatar
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    A real Christmas miracle.
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    lol at Nestle being some vicious smiter, she's the nicest person on this site besides probably puzzld. Or at least the last person to resort to smiting.
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    Certified Grumple Bottoms Ron_NYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    Ron was the best part, hands down.

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    Cousin Greg Angiebla's Avatar
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    I actually spoke to a MD in Ohio who said he thinks this Doctor needs to be reported to the OSMB. He has an obligation to practice medicine according to science, not religion. He also thinks he suffering from dementia or a psychotic break if he doesn't understand basic medical knowledge.

    "The love for all living creatures is the most noble attribute of man" -Charles Darwin

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    Certified Grumple Bottoms Ron_NYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisedbywolves View Post
    Oh my! Then, ....perhaps those God delivered miracles are.....just day to day life?! Oh, say it isn't so!
    Wait....what?? I need to rethink my life.
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    Ron was the best part, hands down.

  11. #161
    Senior Member morbidT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Babe 73 View Post
    professional tattoo vs. a cousin who has a tattoo machine (sorry emmie I can't remember the real term)


    1. Prison Tattoo
    2. Mickey Mouse Tatto
    3. Test Subject

    Prison/jail tattoo is part of the question regarding professional vs. non professional tattoos.

    Quote Originally Posted by raisedbywolves View Post
    At this point though (almost two weeks on the ventilator), how viable are her organs for transplant? I think in another thread you said that the vent causes cooties in lungs, right? What about the rest of her organs?
    Oh yeah, her lungs are probably full of cooties. I'm sure her other vital organs are no longer viable for transplant as well.

    Can you imagine if the family was approached for organ donation? Lawd have mercy! lol

    Quote Originally Posted by raisedbywolves View Post
    Doesn't God get to take today off as a paid holiday like pretty much everyone else?
    God is busy celebrating his kid's birthday today.

    Quote Originally Posted by Angiebla View Post
    I actually spoke to a MD in Ohio who said he thinks this Doctor needs to be reported to the OSMB. He has an obligation to practice medicine according to science, not religion. He also thinks he suffering from dementia or a psychotic break if he doesn't understand basic medical knowledge.

    You are talking about Dr. Bryne, right? Because yeah, that guy is off his rocker.


    Quote Originally Posted by blighted star View Post
    ..... it wasn't anything personal, she just mistook him for a serial killer......

  12. #162
    Moderator puzzld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morbidT View Post



    You are talking about Dr. Bryne, right? Because yeah, that guy is off his rocker.
    What do we know about the good Dr. B? Where was he trained? Where does he practice? etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    lol at Nestle being some vicious smiter, she's the nicest person on this site besides probably puzzld. Or at least the last person to resort to smiting.
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    Why on earth would I smite you when I can ban you?

  13. #163
    Senior Member morbidT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by puzzld View Post
    What do we know about the good Dr. B? Where was he trained? Where does he practice? etc.
    He's at University of Toledo now, but I think he trained in St. Louis. Lemme see what I can find.


    ETA: I can't find shit on this guy. I searched University of Toledo and couldn't find him. He is supposedly Director of Pediatrics at St. Charles Hospital in Oregon, Ohio and I couldn't find him in the list of Mercy Health Partners.

    The only things I can find on him are related to his foundation crickets posted about and this.

    http://www.christorchaos.com/Dr.Paul...ation_000.html


    I wonder if UT and Mercy Health Partners took his info down because of the press.
    Last edited by morbidT; 12-25-2013 at 05:02 PM.


    Quote Originally Posted by blighted star View Post
    ..... it wasn't anything personal, she just mistook him for a serial killer......

  14. #164
    Senior Member TupeloHoney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angiebla View Post
    I saw on the news today that the mom said and I quote "Jahi is showing signs of breathing on her own, without the ventilator." I think the mother is crazy. If that were the case, why are they fighting to keep her hooked up to it?

    I also heard she actually died of cardiac arrest during the procedure. I think the family is full of shit saying she was recovering fine one second, then the next she was bleeding uncontrollably. Most people die from the actual anesthesia itself, and that's probably what happened to this young lady. Here is what I don't get they know she's brain dead, but want to keep her on a ventilator anyway? For what purpose?

    Jahi did not die during surgery ... she was conscious afterwards, began bleeding excessively then went into cardiac arrest. If you can prove otherwise, then do so. But if you're going to malign these people and call them liars, please be certain you have your facts straight.

    Your statement that "most people die from the anesthesia itself" is not accurate. Also, excessive bleeding during/after certain surgeries is not an unusual complication. I know you fancy yourself a psych expert, but are you a surgery expert now, too?




    And I disagree with those who say this woman is enjoying this because she's some kind of attention whore. Seems to me that all she really wants is to have her daughter back.

    For every one doctor telling her what she doesn't want to hear, shitloads of other people are telling her EXACTLY what she wants to hear: "My child/parent/cousin/auntie/peepaw (take your pick) was declared brain dead, but a few days/weeks later, he/she stood up and danced a jig in the hospital room and is alive and well today." She has glommed onto that and will not let go. I don't think that makes her some terrible, evil person.




    ANYWAY, I figured that at least SOME of the mom's anger directed the doctors/nurses was really just a projection of her own feelings of guilt. After reading the article below, I have no doubt. She will likely never forgive herself, and I feel so bad for her.

    Also, I can't believe there are crazy strangers showing up at the hospital asking to touch Jahi. Ugh.


    http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-...ath-is-mothers

    Jahi McMath: A mother's undeniable love is lost in divisive battle

    (Dec. 24, 2013) OAKLAND -- On Christmas Eve, Nailah Winkfield held vigil in her daughter's hospital room, caressing the girl's warm hand, kissing her soft cheeks, feeling her pulse and telling her she's sorry for promising that everything would be OK.

    She was too exhausted, her blood pressure too high, to hear a judge's ruling that her precious Jahi was "brain-dead," and that the hospital where the 13-year-old girl underwent a tonsillectomy 15 days ago can remove her from a ventilator by Monday.

    "Everyone says it's not my fault," Winkfield said on Monday, in her most extensive interview so far about the events that have propelled her and her family into a highly publicized, bitterly divisive battle with Children's Hospital Oakland. "But I drove her here. I made the appointment. I got the second opinion.

    "It was me. It was all me," Winkfield said, wiping away tears that have been flowing for two weeks. "She didn't do it. She just followed what I said. So I feel like it would be so wrong of me to let them pull that plug on her."

    The story of Nailah Winkfield's quest to save her daughter, Jahi McMath, has spurred protests and marches, court dates and controversy. But something undeniable and nearly lost in all the debate is a mother, wracked with guilt, trying desperately to take her daughter home again.

    "I know you can hear me and you're frustrated you can't move," she says to Jahi. "But pray, and show some sign of activity so these people won't try to take you away."

    'PRAYING FOR A MIRACLE'

    Winkfield has spent every night for the last two weeks sleeping in a chair with a footrest in a small, third floor waiting room. She and a dozen relatives are startled awake each morning at 7 by a security guard calling, "Everybody up!" She folds her blanket and walks down the hall to sit all day with Jahi, the shy girl with the big smile who told her mother she was scared to have surgery, afraid she wouldn't wake up.

    Winkfield was too emotionally drained to come down to the lobby to talk about Tuesday's ruling, so she sent her husband, Marvin Winkfield.

    "We're still praying for a miracle," he said. "It's a lot to absorb."

    Firefighters and charitable groups traipsed through the hospital all day carrying huge bags of gifts for the sick children. Staff at the information desk played Christmas tunes. Relatives hugged children being wheeled out to the parking lot to be home in time for Christmas.

    But for the Winkfields, the lobby has been a chaotic and sometimes unscrupulous place, where throngs of well-wishers bring cards and flowers, pastors pray and bring Bible verses and strangers show up offering incense and oils and demand to lay their healing hands on Jahi. They speak in tongues on the sidewalk. Some say they're the girl's uncle or grandmother and somehow get into the hallways of hospital's third floor. One woman waited in the corridor for 10 hours. "I want to see your daughter and touch her," the woman told Winkfield. When Winkfield said no, the woman replied, "Then I want to be close to you." She watched Winkfield sleep.

    OVERWHELMING RESPONSE

    Finally, the family created a secret password so only their closest friends and family can get upstairs. Winkfield almost feels held prisoner.

    "I can't go down for fresh air. There are so many prayer rugs and statues and incense and all these directions of how to wake her," she said earlier this week. "We're dealing with a lot of unsavory people."

    It's not in her nature to be so suspicious. She's a woman who greets strangers with hugs. But she doesn't know who to trust anymore.

    She doesn't want to believe the hospital officials who say her daughter is medically and legally dead. They are the same people who said her daughter would emerge out of surgery just fine and go home the next day.

    She wants to believe in the power of prayer, even though she had told Jahi not to worry about the surgery because "you've got a praying mother." And she wants to believe the woman she met in the lobby who told her she had a child who was declared brain-dead and fully recovered.

    "My daughter needs time to heal," she said on Monday. "It does happen. It's not unheard of."

    The Winkfields were supposed to be home for Christmas. Nailah Winkfield was going to make her famous gumbo and invite family over.

    She can't imagine life without Jahi, the second of Winkfield's four children. They all call the girl "Mama Jahi" because she likes to bathe her younger sister and iron her clothes. She was always first on the front porch when her mother pulled into the driveway after a full day working at Home Depot. "I want my face to be the first mom sees," Jahi would tell her stepfather.

    Now, when her mother dreams that Jahi will awaken, she wants to be the first face her daughter sees.

    PROTECTING A DAUGHTER

    Jahi has always been a shy girl who avoided confrontation, so when she was bullied because of her weight, it was her mother who came to her defense, meeting with teachers and the principal.

    "A lot of times people will take advantage of her and be mean to her," Winkfield said. "I would be her pit bull for her. No, you're not going to mess with my kid."

    She has continued to be her daughter's fiercest advocate, when her daughter has no voice of her own.

    "Sometimes it's hard to face her. Every day I tell her I'm sorry. When you promise your kid they'll be OK and everything they fear happens, it's not a good feeling as a mother," Winkfield said. "That's why I keep fighting."

    If she's not at her daughter's side, keeping her lips moist with gloss, massaging her with her favorite Victoria's Secret moisturizer and making sure her favorite music is playing on her iPod, she tries to find solace in the hospital's chapel. She wrote a letter from there last weekend on scraps of paper. It was as much a love letter as a mother's manifesto.

    "Pray for me, mothers, that my love can bring her life once more," she wrote.

    Winkfield can't predict how she'll feel tomorrow or next week, she said, but "right now I'm not letting her go."

    She feels Jahi breathing. She caresses her skin.

    "That," she says, "is my heart in there."
    Quote Originally Posted by Not your business View Post
    I will out think the fucking pants off of you and you would thank me for helping you out of them.

  15. #165
    Cousin Greg Angiebla's Avatar
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    TOH you are a psycho. I never said/did anything to you that would cause you to lash out at me like you just did. I wasn't the only one saying the family is in denial. I never said I was a Psych expert or a surgery expert.

    I heard it on the news that Jahi went into cardiac arrest during the procedure. I wouldn't just make that up.

    I never said the mom was enjoying the attention, however, I do think she should stop "projecting" her anger at the hospital staff. It's not their fault.
    Last edited by Angiebla; 12-25-2013 at 05:33 PM.

    "The love for all living creatures is the most noble attribute of man" -Charles Darwin

    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    Chelsea, if you are a ghost and reading mds, I command you to walk into the light.

  16. #166
    Senior Member morbidT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TupeloHoney View Post
    Jahi did not die during surgery ... she was conscious afterwards, began bleeding excessively then went into cardiac arrest. If you can prove otherwise, then do so. But if you're going to malign these people and call them liars, please be certain you have your facts straight.

    Your statement that "most people die from the anesthesia itself" is not accurate. Also, excessive bleeding during/after certain surgeries is not an unusual complication. I know you fancy yourself a psych expert, but are you a surgery expert now, too?




    And I disagree with those who say this woman is enjoying this because she's some kind of attention whore. Seems to me that all she really wants is to have her daughter back.

    For every one doctor telling her what she doesn't want to hear, shitloads of other people are telling her EXACTLY what she wants to hear: "My child/parent/cousin/auntie/peepaw (take your pick) was declared brain dead, but a few days/weeks later, he/she stood up and danced a jig in the hospital room and is alive and well today." She has glommed onto that and will not let go. I don't think that makes her some terrible, evil person.




    ANYWAY, I figured that at least SOME of the mom's anger directed the doctors/nurses was really just a projection of her own feelings of guilt. After reading the article below, I have no doubt. She will likely never forgive herself, and I feel so bad for her.

    Also, I can't believe there are crazy strangers showing up at the hospital asking to touch Jahi. Ugh.


    http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-...ath-is-mothers

    Jahi McMath: A mother's undeniable love is lost in divisive battle

    (Dec. 24, 2013) OAKLAND -- On Christmas Eve, Nailah Winkfield held vigil in her daughter's hospital room, caressing the girl's warm hand, kissing her soft cheeks, feeling her pulse and telling her she's sorry for promising that everything would be OK.

    She was too exhausted, her blood pressure too high, to hear a judge's ruling that her precious Jahi was "brain-dead," and that the hospital where the 13-year-old girl underwent a tonsillectomy 15 days ago can remove her from a ventilator by Monday.

    "Everyone says it's not my fault," Winkfield said on Monday, in her most extensive interview so far about the events that have propelled her and her family into a highly publicized, bitterly divisive battle with Children's Hospital Oakland. "But I drove her here. I made the appointment. I got the second opinion.

    "It was me. It was all me," Winkfield said, wiping away tears that have been flowing for two weeks. "She didn't do it. She just followed what I said. So I feel like it would be so wrong of me to let them pull that plug on her."

    The story of Nailah Winkfield's quest to save her daughter, Jahi McMath, has spurred protests and marches, court dates and controversy. But something undeniable and nearly lost in all the debate is a mother, wracked with guilt, trying desperately to take her daughter home again.

    "I know you can hear me and you're frustrated you can't move," she says to Jahi. "But pray, and show some sign of activity so these people won't try to take you away."

    'PRAYING FOR A MIRACLE'

    Winkfield has spent every night for the last two weeks sleeping in a chair with a footrest in a small, third floor waiting room. She and a dozen relatives are startled awake each morning at 7 by a security guard calling, "Everybody up!" She folds her blanket and walks down the hall to sit all day with Jahi, the shy girl with the big smile who told her mother she was scared to have surgery, afraid she wouldn't wake up.

    Winkfield was too emotionally drained to come down to the lobby to talk about Tuesday's ruling, so she sent her husband, Marvin Winkfield.

    "We're still praying for a miracle," he said. "It's a lot to absorb."

    Firefighters and charitable groups traipsed through the hospital all day carrying huge bags of gifts for the sick children. Staff at the information desk played Christmas tunes. Relatives hugged children being wheeled out to the parking lot to be home in time for Christmas.

    But for the Winkfields, the lobby has been a chaotic and sometimes unscrupulous place, where throngs of well-wishers bring cards and flowers, pastors pray and bring Bible verses and strangers show up offering incense and oils and demand to lay their healing hands on Jahi. They speak in tongues on the sidewalk. Some say they're the girl's uncle or grandmother and somehow get into the hallways of hospital's third floor. One woman waited in the corridor for 10 hours. "I want to see your daughter and touch her," the woman told Winkfield. When Winkfield said no, the woman replied, "Then I want to be close to you." She watched Winkfield sleep.

    OVERWHELMING RESPONSE

    Finally, the family created a secret password so only their closest friends and family can get upstairs. Winkfield almost feels held prisoner.

    "I can't go down for fresh air. There are so many prayer rugs and statues and incense and all these directions of how to wake her," she said earlier this week. "We're dealing with a lot of unsavory people."

    It's not in her nature to be so suspicious. She's a woman who greets strangers with hugs. But she doesn't know who to trust anymore.

    She doesn't want to believe the hospital officials who say her daughter is medically and legally dead. They are the same people who said her daughter would emerge out of surgery just fine and go home the next day.

    She wants to believe in the power of prayer, even though she had told Jahi not to worry about the surgery because "you've got a praying mother." And she wants to believe the woman she met in the lobby who told her she had a child who was declared brain-dead and fully recovered.

    "My daughter needs time to heal," she said on Monday. "It does happen. It's not unheard of."

    The Winkfields were supposed to be home for Christmas. Nailah Winkfield was going to make her famous gumbo and invite family over.

    She can't imagine life without Jahi, the second of Winkfield's four children. They all call the girl "Mama Jahi" because she likes to bathe her younger sister and iron her clothes. She was always first on the front porch when her mother pulled into the driveway after a full day working at Home Depot. "I want my face to be the first mom sees," Jahi would tell her stepfather.

    Now, when her mother dreams that Jahi will awaken, she wants to be the first face her daughter sees.

    PROTECTING A DAUGHTER

    Jahi has always been a shy girl who avoided confrontation, so when she was bullied because of her weight, it was her mother who came to her defense, meeting with teachers and the principal.

    "A lot of times people will take advantage of her and be mean to her," Winkfield said. "I would be her pit bull for her. No, you're not going to mess with my kid."

    She has continued to be her daughter's fiercest advocate, when her daughter has no voice of her own.

    "Sometimes it's hard to face her. Every day I tell her I'm sorry. When you promise your kid they'll be OK and everything they fear happens, it's not a good feeling as a mother," Winkfield said. "That's why I keep fighting."

    If she's not at her daughter's side, keeping her lips moist with gloss, massaging her with her favorite Victoria's Secret moisturizer and making sure her favorite music is playing on her iPod, she tries to find solace in the hospital's chapel. She wrote a letter from there last weekend on scraps of paper. It was as much a love letter as a mother's manifesto.

    "Pray for me, mothers, that my love can bring her life once more," she wrote.

    Winkfield can't predict how she'll feel tomorrow or next week, she said, but "right now I'm not letting her go."

    She feels Jahi breathing. She caresses her skin.

    "That," she says, "is my heart in there."


    So I guess the mom isn't a nurse?

    I can understand why the mom feels it's her fault for allowing the surgery.

    Sounds like she got a second opinion regarding the surgery, too.


    Quote Originally Posted by blighted star View Post
    ..... it wasn't anything personal, she just mistook him for a serial killer......

  17. #167
    Moderator puzzld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morbidT View Post
    So I guess the mom isn't a nurse?

    I can understand why the mom feels it's her fault for allowing the surgery.

    Sounds like she got a second opinion regarding the surgery, too.
    I think it's a grandmother who's a nurse.

    Sealey held hands with Jahi's grandmother Sandra Chatman; Jahi's stepfather, Martin Winkfield; and the family's lawyer, Christopher Dolan, as the judge ruled.

    Grillo based his decision on the conclusions of two doctors, court-appointed Dr. Paul Fisher of Stanford University and the hospital's Dr. Robin Shanahan.

    Fisher examined the girl for several hours on Monday and reported to the judge Tuesday that the teen was brain dead, the same conclusion Shanahan reached.

    Grillo said he had no other choice but to allow the hospital to remove the ventilator.

    "I wish I could fix it, but I can't," he said.

    The hospital had argued that the teen had no chance of recovery since all brain function had ceased.

    "Our sincere hope is that the family finds peace and can come to grips with the judge's decision," hospital attorney Doug Strauss said outside court after Grillo's ruling.

    Jahi's family has been fighting with hospital administrators over keeping her on a ventilator since the teen suffered cardiac arrest after bleeding profusely following her operation.

    The family said that as long as the teen was breathing, there was hope of recovery. The family also demanded an independent examination. It has said it believes Jahi is still alive and that the hospital should not remove her from the ventilator without its permission.

    "It's wrong for someone who made mistakes on your child to just call the coroner ... and not respect the family's feeling or rights," Chatman, who is a registered nurse, said earlier this week. "I know Jahi suffered, and it tears me up."
    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/brain-de...an-be-removed/

    I feel very sorry for the family, and hate the vampires who are preying on them.
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    lol at Nestle being some vicious smiter, she's the nicest person on this site besides probably puzzld. Or at least the last person to resort to smiting.
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    Why on earth would I smite you when I can ban you?

  18. #168
    Senior Member McMama's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TupeloHoney View Post
    Jahi did not die during surgery ... she was conscious afterwards, began bleeding excessively then went into cardiac arrest. If you can prove otherwise, then do so. But if you're going to malign these people and call them liars, please be certain you have your facts straight.

    Your statement that "most people die from the anesthesia itself" is not accurate. Also, excessive bleeding during/after certain surgeries is not an unusual complication. I know you fancy yourself a psych expert, but are you a surgery expert now, too?




    And I disagree with those who say this woman is enjoying this because she's some kind of attention whore. Seems to me that all she really wants is to have her daughter back.

    For every one doctor telling her what she doesn't want to hear, shitloads of other people are telling her EXACTLY what she wants to hear: "My child/parent/cousin/auntie/peepaw (take your pick) was declared brain dead, but a few days/weeks later, he/she stood up and danced a jig in the hospital room and is alive and well today." She has glommed onto that and will not let go. I don't think that makes her some terrible, evil person.




    ANYWAY, I figured that at least SOME of the mom's anger directed the doctors/nurses was really just a projection of her own feelings of guilt. After reading the article below, I have no doubt. She will likely never forgive herself, and I feel so bad for her.

    Also, I can't believe there are crazy strangers showing up at the hospital asking to touch Jahi. Ugh.


    http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-...ath-is-mothers

    Jahi McMath: A mother's undeniable love is lost in divisive battle

    (Dec. 24, 2013) OAKLAND -- On Christmas Eve, Nailah Winkfield held vigil in her daughter's hospital room, caressing the girl's warm hand, kissing her soft cheeks, feeling her pulse and telling her she's sorry for promising that everything would be OK.

    She was too exhausted, her blood pressure too high, to hear a judge's ruling that her precious Jahi was "brain-dead," and that the hospital where the 13-year-old girl underwent a tonsillectomy 15 days ago can remove her from a ventilator by Monday.

    "Everyone says it's not my fault," Winkfield said on Monday, in her most extensive interview so far about the events that have propelled her and her family into a highly publicized, bitterly divisive battle with Children's Hospital Oakland. "But I drove her here. I made the appointment. I got the second opinion.

    "It was me. It was all me," Winkfield said, wiping away tears that have been flowing for two weeks. "She didn't do it. She just followed what I said. So I feel like it would be so wrong of me to let them pull that plug on her."

    The story of Nailah Winkfield's quest to save her daughter, Jahi McMath, has spurred protests and marches, court dates and controversy. But something undeniable and nearly lost in all the debate is a mother, wracked with guilt, trying desperately to take her daughter home again.

    "I know you can hear me and you're frustrated you can't move," she says to Jahi. "But pray, and show some sign of activity so these people won't try to take you away."

    'PRAYING FOR A MIRACLE'

    Winkfield has spent every night for the last two weeks sleeping in a chair with a footrest in a small, third floor waiting room. She and a dozen relatives are startled awake each morning at 7 by a security guard calling, "Everybody up!" She folds her blanket and walks down the hall to sit all day with Jahi, the shy girl with the big smile who told her mother she was scared to have surgery, afraid she wouldn't wake up.

    Winkfield was too emotionally drained to come down to the lobby to talk about Tuesday's ruling, so she sent her husband, Marvin Winkfield.

    "We're still praying for a miracle," he said. "It's a lot to absorb."

    Firefighters and charitable groups traipsed through the hospital all day carrying huge bags of gifts for the sick children. Staff at the information desk played Christmas tunes. Relatives hugged children being wheeled out to the parking lot to be home in time for Christmas.

    But for the Winkfields, the lobby has been a chaotic and sometimes unscrupulous place, where throngs of well-wishers bring cards and flowers, pastors pray and bring Bible verses and strangers show up offering incense and oils and demand to lay their healing hands on Jahi. They speak in tongues on the sidewalk. Some say they're the girl's uncle or grandmother and somehow get into the hallways of hospital's third floor. One woman waited in the corridor for 10 hours. "I want to see your daughter and touch her," the woman told Winkfield. When Winkfield said no, the woman replied, "Then I want to be close to you." She watched Winkfield sleep.

    OVERWHELMING RESPONSE

    Finally, the family created a secret password so only their closest friends and family can get upstairs. Winkfield almost feels held prisoner.

    "I can't go down for fresh air. There are so many prayer rugs and statues and incense and all these directions of how to wake her," she said earlier this week. "We're dealing with a lot of unsavory people."

    It's not in her nature to be so suspicious. She's a woman who greets strangers with hugs. But she doesn't know who to trust anymore.

    She doesn't want to believe the hospital officials who say her daughter is medically and legally dead. They are the same people who said her daughter would emerge out of surgery just fine and go home the next day.

    She wants to believe in the power of prayer, even though she had told Jahi not to worry about the surgery because "you've got a praying mother." And she wants to believe the woman she met in the lobby who told her she had a child who was declared brain-dead and fully recovered.

    "My daughter needs time to heal," she said on Monday. "It does happen. It's not unheard of."

    The Winkfields were supposed to be home for Christmas. Nailah Winkfield was going to make her famous gumbo and invite family over.

    She can't imagine life without Jahi, the second of Winkfield's four children. They all call the girl "Mama Jahi" because she likes to bathe her younger sister and iron her clothes. She was always first on the front porch when her mother pulled into the driveway after a full day working at Home Depot. "I want my face to be the first mom sees," Jahi would tell her stepfather.

    Now, when her mother dreams that Jahi will awaken, she wants to be the first face her daughter sees.

    PROTECTING A DAUGHTER

    Jahi has always been a shy girl who avoided confrontation, so when she was bullied because of her weight, it was her mother who came to her defense, meeting with teachers and the principal.

    "A lot of times people will take advantage of her and be mean to her," Winkfield said. "I would be her pit bull for her. No, you're not going to mess with my kid."

    She has continued to be her daughter's fiercest advocate, when her daughter has no voice of her own.

    "Sometimes it's hard to face her. Every day I tell her I'm sorry. When you promise your kid they'll be OK and everything they fear happens, it's not a good feeling as a mother," Winkfield said. "That's why I keep fighting."

    If she's not at her daughter's side, keeping her lips moist with gloss, massaging her with her favorite Victoria's Secret moisturizer and making sure her favorite music is playing on her iPod, she tries to find solace in the hospital's chapel. She wrote a letter from there last weekend on scraps of paper. It was as much a love letter as a mother's manifesto.

    "Pray for me, mothers, that my love can bring her life once more," she wrote.

    Winkfield can't predict how she'll feel tomorrow or next week, she said, but "right now I'm not letting her go."

    She feels Jahi breathing. She caresses her skin.

    "That," she says, "is my heart in there."
    I feel terrible for her. She just doesn't want to let go. From reading the above, it seems that she knows she's gone. She just doesn't want to give up on her. All of the court issues and the like are just prolonging the inevitable. I hope she can come to terms with this soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Angiebla View Post
    I actually spoke to a MD in Ohio who said he thinks this Doctor needs to be reported to the OSMB. He has an obligation to practice medicine according to science, not religion. He also thinks he suffering from dementia or a psychotic break if he doesn't understand basic medical knowledge.
    I think he probably has a personal obligation to be a cock who wants money and his five minutes in the limelight.

  19. #169
    What do you care? Boston Babe 73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TupeloHoney View Post
    Jahi did not die during surgery ... she was conscious afterwards, began bleeding excessively then went into cardiac arrest. If you can prove otherwise, then do so. But if you're going to malign these people and call them liars, please be certain you have your facts straight.

    Your statement that "most people die from the anesthesia itself" is not accurate. Also, excessive bleeding during/after certain surgeries is not an unusual complication. I know you fancy yourself a psych expert, but are you a surgery expert now, too?




    And I disagree with those who say this woman is enjoying this because she's some kind of attention whore. Seems to me that all she really wants is to have her daughter back.

    For every one doctor telling her what she doesn't want to hear, shitloads of other people are telling her EXACTLY what she wants to hear: "My child/parent/cousin/auntie/peepaw (take your pick) was declared brain dead, but a few days/weeks later, he/she stood up and danced a jig in the hospital room and is alive and well today." She has glommed onto that and will not let go. I don't think that makes her some terrible, evil person.




    ANYWAY, I figured that at least SOME of the mom's anger directed the doctors/nurses was really just a projection of her own feelings of guilt. After reading the article below, I have no doubt. She will likely never forgive herself, and I feel so bad for her.

    Also, I can't believe there are crazy strangers showing up at the hospital asking to touch Jahi. Ugh.


    http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-...ath-is-mothers

    Jahi McMath: A mother's undeniable love is lost in divisive battle

    (Dec. 24, 2013) OAKLAND -- On Christmas Eve, Nailah Winkfield held vigil in her daughter's hospital room, caressing the girl's warm hand, kissing her soft cheeks, feeling her pulse and telling her she's sorry for promising that everything would be OK.

    She was too exhausted, her blood pressure too high, to hear a judge's ruling that her precious Jahi was "brain-dead," and that the hospital where the 13-year-old girl underwent a tonsillectomy 15 days ago can remove her from a ventilator by Monday.

    "Everyone says it's not my fault," Winkfield said on Monday, in her most extensive interview so far about the events that have propelled her and her family into a highly publicized, bitterly divisive battle with Children's Hospital Oakland. "But I drove her here. I made the appointment. I got the second opinion.

    "It was me. It was all me," Winkfield said, wiping away tears that have been flowing for two weeks. "She didn't do it. She just followed what I said. So I feel like it would be so wrong of me to let them pull that plug on her."

    The story of Nailah Winkfield's quest to save her daughter, Jahi McMath, has spurred protests and marches, court dates and controversy. But something undeniable and nearly lost in all the debate is a mother, wracked with guilt, trying desperately to take her daughter home again.

    "I know you can hear me and you're frustrated you can't move," she says to Jahi. "But pray, and show some sign of activity so these people won't try to take you away."

    'PRAYING FOR A MIRACLE'

    Winkfield has spent every night for the last two weeks sleeping in a chair with a footrest in a small, third floor waiting room. She and a dozen relatives are startled awake each morning at 7 by a security guard calling, "Everybody up!" She folds her blanket and walks down the hall to sit all day with Jahi, the shy girl with the big smile who told her mother she was scared to have surgery, afraid she wouldn't wake up.

    Winkfield was too emotionally drained to come down to the lobby to talk about Tuesday's ruling, so she sent her husband, Marvin Winkfield.

    "We're still praying for a miracle," he said. "It's a lot to absorb."

    Firefighters and charitable groups traipsed through the hospital all day carrying huge bags of gifts for the sick children. Staff at the information desk played Christmas tunes. Relatives hugged children being wheeled out to the parking lot to be home in time for Christmas.

    But for the Winkfields, the lobby has been a chaotic and sometimes unscrupulous place, where throngs of well-wishers bring cards and flowers, pastors pray and bring Bible verses and strangers show up offering incense and oils and demand to lay their healing hands on Jahi. They speak in tongues on the sidewalk. Some say they're the girl's uncle or grandmother and somehow get into the hallways of hospital's third floor. One woman waited in the corridor for 10 hours. "I want to see your daughter and touch her," the woman told Winkfield. When Winkfield said no, the woman replied, "Then I want to be close to you." She watched Winkfield sleep.

    OVERWHELMING RESPONSE

    Finally, the family created a secret password so only their closest friends and family can get upstairs. Winkfield almost feels held prisoner.

    "I can't go down for fresh air. There are so many prayer rugs and statues and incense and all these directions of how to wake her," she said earlier this week. "We're dealing with a lot of unsavory people."

    It's not in her nature to be so suspicious. She's a woman who greets strangers with hugs. But she doesn't know who to trust anymore.

    She doesn't want to believe the hospital officials who say her daughter is medically and legally dead. They are the same people who said her daughter would emerge out of surgery just fine and go home the next day.

    She wants to believe in the power of prayer, even though she had told Jahi not to worry about the surgery because "you've got a praying mother." And she wants to believe the woman she met in the lobby who told her she had a child who was declared brain-dead and fully recovered.

    "My daughter needs time to heal," she said on Monday. "It does happen. It's not unheard of."

    The Winkfields were supposed to be home for Christmas. Nailah Winkfield was going to make her famous gumbo and invite family over.

    She can't imagine life without Jahi, the second of Winkfield's four children. They all call the girl "Mama Jahi" because she likes to bathe her younger sister and iron her clothes. She was always first on the front porch when her mother pulled into the driveway after a full day working at Home Depot. "I want my face to be the first mom sees," Jahi would tell her stepfather.

    Now, when her mother dreams that Jahi will awaken, she wants to be the first face her daughter sees.

    PROTECTING A DAUGHTER

    Jahi has always been a shy girl who avoided confrontation, so when she was bullied because of her weight, it was her mother who came to her defense, meeting with teachers and the principal.

    "A lot of times people will take advantage of her and be mean to her," Winkfield said. "I would be her pit bull for her. No, you're not going to mess with my kid."

    She has continued to be her daughter's fiercest advocate, when her daughter has no voice of her own.

    "Sometimes it's hard to face her. Every day I tell her I'm sorry. When you promise your kid they'll be OK and everything they fear happens, it's not a good feeling as a mother," Winkfield said. "That's why I keep fighting."

    If she's not at her daughter's side, keeping her lips moist with gloss, massaging her with her favorite Victoria's Secret moisturizer and making sure her favorite music is playing on her iPod, she tries to find solace in the hospital's chapel. She wrote a letter from there last weekend on scraps of paper. It was as much a love letter as a mother's manifesto.

    "Pray for me, mothers, that my love can bring her life once more," she wrote.

    Winkfield can't predict how she'll feel tomorrow or next week, she said, but "right now I'm not letting her go."

    She feels Jahi breathing. She caresses her skin.

    "That," she says, "is my heart in there."
    I was the one that said "I'm starting to lose sympathy for the Family" because I SUSPECT that they are STARTING to enjoy the attention.

    The only people I outright accused of using this girl for publicity was Dolan (the Lawyer) and Byrne (the psycho"Doctor").

    Making the assumption that after over two weeks that the Family MAY be STARTING to enjoy the attention is definitely not outlandish. And the jury is still out on that one for me. If I see a movie or/and book deal with them in the near future? Then I'll know my suspicions were right. This doesn't mean that I don't believe that they truly are devastated BTW. Just my opinion.
    Last edited by Boston Babe 73; 12-25-2013 at 06:50 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nic B View Post
    That is too pretty to be shoved up an ass.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nic B View Post
    You can take those Fleets and shove them up your ass



  20. #170
    Senior Member TupeloHoney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angiebla View Post
    TOH you are a psycho. I never said/did anything to you that would cause you to lash out at me like you just did. I wasn't the only one saying the family is in denial. I never said I was a Psych expert or a surgery expert.

    I heard it on the news that Jahi went into cardiac arrest during the procedure. I wouldn't just make that up.

    I never said the mom was enjoying the attention, however, I do think she should stop "projecting" her anger at the hospital staff. It's not their fault.
    See ... there you go again, lol. Always diagnosing someone with a mental illness. Allow me to make a diagnosis of my own: You're dumb.

    I didn't say anything to you about denial. You accused the family of lying, and you should be able to back that up. I didn't lash out at you, I was calling you out on your uninformed bullshit.

    And I clearly separated my response to your post from the part where I said, "And I disagree with those who say this woman is enjoying this ... " I'm not shocked you didn't pick up on that. If that had been directed at you or any other specific person, I would have said so.

    And, ftr, we don't know what IS or IS NOT the staff's fault. They DO make mistakes sometimes. .. they're human like the rest of us. Of course we might never know due to Jahi's body healing while on the ventilator, but, again, you're making a definitive statement -- "It's not their fault" -- when you don't know that for a fact. It's certainly possible that the medical staff did everything spot-on perfect, but Jahi's body just couldn't take it. Who knows? I don't. Do you?

    You're just mad at yourself for saying shitty things about this family, and you're projecting your anger on me. Maybe you should make an appointment with yourself for a therapy session.
    Quote Originally Posted by Not your business View Post
    I will out think the fucking pants off of you and you would thank me for helping you out of them.

  21. #171
    Cousin Greg Angiebla's Avatar
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    NVM
    Last edited by Angiebla; 12-25-2013 at 08:37 PM.

    "The love for all living creatures is the most noble attribute of man" -Charles Darwin

    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    Chelsea, if you are a ghost and reading mds, I command you to walk into the light.

  22. #172
    Senior Member *crickets*'s Avatar
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    Dr. Byrne writes a coulmn for Renew America
    http://www.renewamerica.com/



    It is a collection of far right, ultra-conservative ideologues and outraged CHRISTIANS. They want Obama impeached and cheered the duck dynasty guy for SPEAKING THE TRUTH. Actually, it's not funny--these wackos make the tea partiers look like flaming liberals.

    Dr. Byrne's columns focus on the EVILS OF ORGAN TRANSPLANTATION. He seems to be on a crusade and pretty much obsessed with it. How someone like this got on the faculty of a medical school is totally beyond me...
    Last edited by *crickets*; 12-25-2013 at 08:54 PM.

  23. #173
    XoXo Miller22's Avatar
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    No, seriously....wtf just happen?

  24. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miller22 View Post
    No, seriously....wtf just happen?
    WOW, no kidding!

  25. #175
    Sana sana colita de rana beli's Avatar
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    you guys are cute
    Quote Originally Posted by Gawna View Post
    Roses are red, violets are blue, seriously where is the fucking ring I gave Julie and ask her mom about the flowers
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron_NYC View Post
    In all fairness, we have no idea how big this dude's cock was.

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