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Thread: Jahi McMath (13) died for real five years after she was declared brain dead following surgery complications

  1. #76
    Senior Member missbad's Avatar
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    This was just posted on the Facebook support page. It's an interview with the mother
    http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/html5/vid...l&section=null
    These "other cases" where other people have fully recovered from being brain dead, is it the ones people are telling her about on Facebook? Like that's her proof?


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  2. #77
    What do you care? Boston Babe 73's Avatar
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    Here's another video. This attorney makes me sick. Where did he get his law degree? Out of a Cracker Jack box? Reporter: "Why do they want to take her off of life support so quickly?" Attorney: "I don't think it's inconvenient for them to have you here".Not only does he not have a grasp on how the English Language works, IT'S BECAUSE SHE'S A ROTTING CORPSE! The family CLEARLY has No brains. You can tell by the video. They've told them that she's dead. They're completely delusional. And enjoying the sympathy and attention if you ask me.

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=78Nb7by...%3D78Nb7bypu0E
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  3. #78
    Senior Member morbidT's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=missbad;3524615]This was just posted on the Facebook support page. It's an interview with the mother
    http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/html5/vid...=null?ion=null
    These "other cases" where other people have fully recovered from being brain dead, is it the ones people are telling her about on Facebook? Like that's her proof?[/QUOTE

    I don't know if those are the cases being discussed on FB. I can't go on there. But, none of those people recovered from brain death. I can promise you that. Brain death IS dead. It is no different than someone who cardiac dies. As in, their heart stops while they are not on a ventilator. If those people were placed on a ventilator, they too, would have organ perfusion and their chest will rise and fall, they will feel warm, the monitor will show a heartbeat. But, those people will show they have no brain activity.

    The same thing happens with brain dead people. They just happen to die while on the ventilator.

    I'm listening to the video while I'm typing this out. The mom just said she doesn't believe the girl is dead because she is warm. She said that when she thinks of dead she thinks of cold. This IS what many people think of. She thinks because the girl has a heart beat she is still alive and will recover. She wants them to do more tests and research on how to bring her back to her normal stuff.

    She said her heart beat is not the machine. Well, if it's not the machine why is she still on the machine? Why is she fighting to keep her on the machine if the machine is not what is providing breath and a heart beat?



    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Babe 73 View Post
    Here's another video. This attorney makes me sick. Where did he get his law degree? Out of a Cracker Jack box? Reporter: "Why do they want to take her off of life support so quickly?" Attorney: "I don't think it's inconvenient for them to have you here".Not only does he not have a grasp on how the English Language works, IT'S BECAUSE SHE'S A ROTTING CORPSE! The family CLEARLY has No brains. You can tell by the video. They've told them that she's dead. They're completely delusional. And enjoying the sympathy and attention if you ask me.

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=78Nb7by...%3D78Nb7bypu0E

    HAHAHAHA! The family is saying the hospital is not showing ANY compassion! Are you freaking kidding me?! They are mad because the doctors are referring to the girl as "dead." Welllll, she is dead and the family is refusing to accept it. The mom even said the doc asked her what part of dead did she not understand.

    According to the video, it sounds like the family wants a third and fourth opinion on the status of the kid's "life."


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    ..... it wasn't anything personal, she just mistook him for a serial killer......

  4. #79
    Moderator puzzld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morbidT View Post
    She said her heart beat is not the machine. Well, if it's not the machine why is she still on the machine? Why is she fighting to keep her on the machine if the machine is not what is providing breath and a heart beat?
    Dingdingding!

    If the machine isn't what's keeping her "alive" why is turning it off a problem?
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    lol at Nestle being some vicious smiter, she's the nicest person on this site besides probably puzzld. Or at least the last person to resort to smiting.
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  5. #80
    Senior Member animosity's Avatar
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    can we keep her until christmas? someone's hoping for a chrismas miracle. sorry folks, she already has her wings. my mom saw to that by placing a bell on our christmas tree on the lowest branch. i've given away tons of wings going to the kitchen at night.
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  6. #81
    Senior Member Just Me's Avatar
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    Smell really, really really major lawsuit....Shady ass lawyer they have will come up with so many things to sue the hospital for... ...This family is just so clueless...She ain't coming back and if some miracle by God that she did do they really think that she would be a normal girl? She would be just hooked up to machines the rest of her life...And they won't be paying the bills, they State will.. Stupid ass people..

  7. #82
    Moderator puzzld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Me View Post
    Smell really, really really major lawsuit....Shady ass lawyer they have will come up with so many things to sue the hospital for... ...This family is just so clueless...She ain't coming back and if some miracle by God that she did do they really think that she would be a normal girl? She would be just hooked up to machines the rest of her life...And they won't be paying the bills, they State will.. Stupid ass people..
    I just hate the vultures that are encouraging them. I understand a parent not being willing/able to accept that their child is gone. But where is their pastor to tell them that God has called Jahi home? Where are the friends and family members who should be helping them deal with their loss? Instead, everyone seems to be saying, hang on, she's coming back.
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  8. #83
    Senior Member Just Me's Avatar
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    Sad that she isn't and they can't understand that.. I have told my husband numerous times DO NOT hook me up to any machines to keep me alive.. If I need those things to keep my alive then let me go.... I have to get all that shit in writing real soon just in case...

  9. #84
    Moderator puzzld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Me View Post
    Sad that she isn't and they can't understand that.. I have told my husband numerous times DO NOT hook me up to any machines to keep me alive.. If I need those things to keep my alive then let me go.... I have to get all that shit in writing real soon just in case...
    It's a tough call. I think some people give up too easily. I was so afraid of tube feeding my Mom. But it has made a huge difference for her. She's healthier and only needs to bother with food if she feels like it. Some people are on ventilators for a time, and make a nice recovery. A friend of mine had cardiac arrest, was on a vent for a week or so, was weaned off of it, and is back to work and seems set to work till retirement in 10 years.

    But, brain dead is a whole different order of magnitude. If the brain doesn't work, we can't fix it, and it's not gonna fix its self.
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  10. #85
    What do you care? Boston Babe 73's Avatar
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    If I'm in a Coma? Let me be for a while. I may just be enjoying a good, long dream. But if I ever turn up brain dead, cremate my ass immediately. Same as Just Me. I must put this in writing soon.
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  11. #86
    Cousin Greg Angiebla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Babe 73 View Post
    If I'm in a Coma? Let me be for a while. I may just be enjoying a good, long dream. But if I ever turn up brain dead, cremate my ass immediately. Same as Just Me. I must put this in writing soon.
    Around the time of the Teri Shivo (sp?) incident my dad went out and changed his DNR papers. He was afraid he would get in an accident and his holy roller mother would keep him on a ventilator indefinitely.

    My stepdad says she isn't brain dead if her heart is beating

    I wanted to add I do feel bad for these parents. I really do. They wanted their daughter to have a better quality of life, so they decided to go through with the surgery. I know they have to be devastated.
    Last edited by Angiebla; 12-21-2013 at 09:46 AM.

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  12. #87
    Senior Member McMama's Avatar
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    I feel pretty horrible for them. I am not a stupid person, but I think that I would have a hard time not becoming completely ignorant and in denial if my child went in for a tonsillectomy and then a doctor told me she was dead . I hope the family can come to terms with this sooner than later. It's a shitty situation no matter how long she's left on the vent.

  13. #88
    Moderator puzzld's Avatar
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    I hate to be the barer of bad news, but... It doesn't matter what papers you sign. If your next of kin chooses to override them, and you aren't able to speak for yourself, the docs will do what the family wants. It helps to have your wishes down on paper so your family knows what you want, but... if they are "do everything" people and you are a "no machines" person, you'll want to find someone who agrees with you and give them your POA, but even then if your mom and your spouse are saying "do everything" and your buddy Ron is saying pull the plug? Especially if he's not right there? Odds are, you're getting hooked up.
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  14. #89
    What do you care? Boston Babe 73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by puzzld View Post
    I hate to be the barer of bad news, but... It doesn't matter what papers you sign. If your next of kin chooses to override them, and you aren't able to speak for yourself, the docs will do what the family wants. It helps to have your wishes down on paper so your family knows what you want, but... if they are "do everything" people and you are a "no machines" person, you'll want to find someone who agrees with you and give them your POA, but even then if your mom and your spouse are saying "do everything" and your buddy Ron is saying pull the plug? Especially if he's not right there? Odds are, you're getting hooked up.
    Yeah. I've heard of this happening. It's SO wrong that people can override your wishes. That shouldn't be the case. Luckily my Mom is a nurse and knows better and my Dad could probably give two shits. My Husband (how ever long he still will be) isn't the type to "try everything" and go against people's wishes. So I'm lucky like that. My Mom is aware of my wishes. I'm pretty sure they would do the right thing.

    I do feel bad for this Family. It must be difficult. But after this much time passing I'm starting to question the motives now. Not to say that they aren't sincere in their sorrow. But perhaps they're saying to themselves, "we're going to lose her anyway...might as well build a good lawsuit and get attention while we're at it". And if that's the case? SO WRONG.
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  15. #90
    Moderator puzzld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Babe 73 View Post
    But perhaps they're saying to themselves, "we're going to lose her anyway...might as well build a good lawsuit and get attention while we're at it". And if that's the case? SO WRONG.
    Then let them do the damn autopsy!
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  16. #91
    What do you care? Boston Babe 73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by puzzld View Post
    Then let them do the damn autopsy!
    RIGHT! I just don't think they realize the damage they're doing by leaving her hooked up. There will be so much fluid and tissue damage done that they'll never be able to determine a COD. They're obviously getting bad advice from this lawyer and the "believers" around them.
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  17. #92
    Senior Member Music's Avatar
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    Maybe once Christmas is over, they may consider taking her off. They may just want one more holiday with her. One can hope. Poor girl has been through enough. I mean, would she want to be like this?

  18. #93
    Senior Member morbidT's Avatar
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    This girls body is going to have more trauma to it than when she was first placed on the vent.

    There's only so much Dopamine to be given before her heart will quit even on the vent. Since the brain is dead the staff has to provide her body with all the hormones/chemicals our bodies need to live. Her body will start failing and there is only so much you can do when there are no neurotransmitters to do the job.

    Nine days is a very long time to be dead and on the vent. I think her body is probably already showing signs of breakdown. Maybe if her heart stops the family will accept that, but her date and time of death will still be December 12th.


    Quote Originally Posted by blighted star View Post
    ..... it wasn't anything personal, she just mistook him for a serial killer......

  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by morbidT View Post
    This girls body is going to have more trauma to it than when she was first placed on the vent.

    There's only so much Dopamine to be given before her heart will quit even on the vent. Since the brain is dead the staff has to provide her body with all the hormones/chemicals our bodies need to live. Her body will start failing and there is only so much you can do when there are no neurotransmitters to do the job.

    Nine days is a very long time to be dead and on the vent. I think her body is probably already showing signs of breakdown. Maybe if her heart stops the family will accept that, but her date and time of death will still be December 12th.
    Just curious, what signs of breakdown would you expect to be showing at this point? I'm trying to imagine the family being around her all the time and not noticing she is basically decomposing. Eeewwwww!

  20. #95
    Senior Member marycontrary's Avatar
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    I have seen a person die on the vent after a car accident. He blood presure began doing strange things...wildly fluctuating form very high to very low. Then she started having episodes of ventricular tachycardia. This was a similar scenerio..the patient was 16 and was ejected from the car and was nearly full term pregnant. Her body was not found at the scene of the accident. A survivor of the accident asked about her pregnant friend and the crew went back to look for her. She was found in some bushes. An ultrasound of the infant showed distress, but the patient was not neurologically stable so anesthesia was out of the question. She had injury to her brain stem and our perineonatologists decided there was no chance her child would survive if delivered. Her blood work showed that she had been without adequate oxygenation for quite some time and thankfully made excuses to the family for why they could not do an emergency c-section. I remember her mother telling me that when she wakes up it's going to be hard on her to find that she has lost her baby. They just didn't get that their daughter was really already dead. She lasted about 6 hours on the vent.

  21. #96
    Senior Member morbidT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisedbywolves View Post
    Just curious, what signs of breakdown would you expect to be showing at this point? I'm trying to imagine the family being around her all the time and not noticing she is basically decomposing. Eeewwwww!
    Oh, I meant multi system breakdown as far as organ failure. I'm sure they are pumping her with fluids and meds to try to keep a blood pressure. In doing so, it can damage her other organs and/or affect fluid output. If she doesn't pee she will have high sodium levels so they have to give her meds to make her pee. Give her too much of this and it hurts the kidneys, give her too much of that and it hurts the pancreas, not enough of the other and lose the blood pressure, have the PEEP set on the vent too lowhigh the lungs get boogered up. When someone still has brain activity the body can aid in the healing process. When the person is dead there are no neurotransmitters to give the signal that the body needs regulated. The endocrine system doesn't spew any of the good stuff for homeostasis.

    The heart doesn't need a brain to beat. It only needs oxygen. This is why a heart can be removed and still beat for several seconds. It beats until it runs out of oxygen. Just a tid bit of info.

    When someone is on the vent it is providing the oxygen the heart needs to beat, but that heart needs volume (blood/fluids) and meds to sustain a blood pressure.

    The oxygen perfusion is why she isn't actually decomposing like a rotting body. She's probably showing signs of skin breakdown (bedsores), but that isn't any different than someone who is alive who has skin breakdown.

    Quote Originally Posted by marycontrary View Post
    I have seen a person die on the vent after a car accident. He blood presure began doing strange things...wildly fluctuating form very high to very low. Then she started having episodes of ventricular tachycardia. This was a similar scenerio..the patient was 16 and was ejected from the car and was nearly full term pregnant. Her body was not found at the scene of the accident. A survivor of the accident asked about her pregnant friend and the crew went back to look for her. She was found in some bushes. An ultrasound of the infant showed distress, but the patient was not neurologically stable so anesthesia was out of the question. She had injury to her brain stem and our perineonatologists decided there was no chance her child would survive if delivered. Her blood work showed that she had been without adequate oxygenation for quite some time and thankfully made excuses to the family for why they could not do an emergency c-section. I remember her mother telling me that when she wakes up it's going to be hard on her to find that she has lost her baby. They just didn't get that their daughter was really already dead. She lasted about 6 hours on the vent.
    Those are classic signs of a brain injury. She was probably herniating.

    That's a really sad story. At first, I thought you meant the girl was found, but the baby wasn't found on the scene. I was she had the baby and no one noticed! Then I read it again and understood.

    This is exactly why EMS should be asking the other occupants (if they are conscious and/or alert) of the car how many people were with them. I've heard stories about people being left on the scene because they were ejected and EMS didn't notice anyone else lying around. I even look in trees.

    Was there an emergency c-section when the mother died? I know the chances are slim, but I have heard of cases where the mother has been brought into the ER not breathing, they pronounce, and deliver the baby.


    Quote Originally Posted by blighted star View Post
    ..... it wasn't anything personal, she just mistook him for a serial killer......

  22. #97
    Cousin Greg Angiebla's Avatar
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    Look at the utter BS I got off of that fb page.
    NOT
    DEAD
    YET

    Carina Melchior , a 19 year old student, suffered severe injuries after crashing her car. Doctors said she would soon be “brain dead” and convinced her family to consent to organ donation. But, as doctors gathered around her bed to prep her for organ donation, she suddenly opened her eyes and moved her legs. Now she is making a full recovery. [more]
    NOT
    DEAD
    YET

    Steven Thorpe , 17 year old Warwickshire youth, was declared “brain dead” by four doctors, but his parents did not give up on him, and insisted on another opinion from an independent GP and a neurosurgeon. Steven made an unexpected recovery and left hospital alive seven weeks later. [more]
    NOT
    DEAD
    YET

    Zach Dunlap , a 21 year old Oklahoma man, was “feeling pretty good” four months after he was diagnosed as “brain dead”. Ironically, Zach heard the doctors pronounce him dead, but was unable to do anything about it. A few days later, he revived and spoke to his family. [more]
    NOT
    DEAD
    YET

    Sam Schmid , a 21 year old Arizona college student, was critically wounded in a five-car accident. Surgeons thought he had no hope of recovery and broached organ donation with his family. Sam was poised to ‘donate’ his vital organs, when he suddenly emerged from a coma. He has since had rehabilitation and walks with the aid of a walker. [more]
    NOT
    DEAD
    YET

    Val Thomas , 59 year old West Virginia woman, came back to life, after being clinically “brain dead” for 17 hours. Attempts to revive her after a heart attack had failed, and doctors diagnosed her as “brain dead”. Later “she moved her arm, coughed and asked for her son.” ... she was alive. [more]
    NOT
    DEAD
    YET

    Gloria Cruz , 56 year old Northern Territory woman, was declared “brain dead” and expected to ‘die’ within 48 hours. A doctor, a social worker and a ‘patient advocate’ urged her husband to remove the ventilator and let her ‘die’. But he refused and 3 days later, Gloria revived, awoke from her coma and was getting around hospital in a wheelchair. [more]
    NOT
    DEAD
    YET

    Madeleine Gauron , a 76 year old Quebec woman, was diagnosed by medical staff as “brain dead”, with no hope of recovery. Doctors asked if the family would agree to organ donation, but the family asked for more medical tests. The next day, astonishingly, she awakened and sat up in bed and ate yogurt. [more]
    NOT
    DEAD
    YET

    Rae Kupferschmidt , 65 year old Minnesota woman, suffered a massive cerebral haemorrhage and doctors diagnosed her as “brain dead”. She was taken home to die and her family began making funeral arrangements. When Rae spontaneously sucked an ice cube offered by her daughter, she was found to be alive. She later walked. [more]
    NOT
    DEAD
    YET

    Suzanne Chin suffered cardiac arrest and collapsed into unconsciousness. Taken to hospital, she remained in a coma and the head of ICU, two neurologists & a cardiologist said she was brain-dead with no hope of recovery. But her husband refused to turn of her life support. 3 days later, Suzanne revived & is now well & very much ALIVE. [more]
    The Nasty Side of Organ Transplanting
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    “The Nasty Side of Organ Transplanting”

    Christina Nichole
    Colleen Burns
    Suzanne Chin
    Carina Melchior
    Steven Thorpe
    Sam Schmid
    Gloria Cruz
    Zach Dunlap
    Madeleine Gauron
    Rae Kupferschmidt
    Val Thomas
    Rom Houben
    French man
    Terry Wallis
    Not Dead Yet === See actual survivor cases ⇒
    Organ transplants can only occur because doctors get access to the still viable, living organs of living, breathing patients with beating hearts. Harvesting their vital organs (eg: heart, lungs and liver) results in the donor’s real death.

    This is only possible and legal, because doctors invented a new kind of death called “brain death”, which allows them to “diagnose” severely brain-injured patients as “brain dead” or “practically dead” and to be considered as nothing more than a “heart-beating cadaver” from which they can then harvest organs at will.

    Doctors don’t want organs from truly dead corpses, since they would already be non-viable and starting to decompose. This was the problem with early heart transplant surgery, hence their need to invent the medical fiction known as “brain death”.

    However, Dr John Shea points out that:


    the very definition of “brain death” is vague and inconsistent: “There is no consensus on diagnostic criteria for brain death. They are the subject of intense international debate. Various sets of neurological criteria for the diagnosis of brain death are used.”
    “A diagnosis of death by neurological criteria is theory, not scientific fact,” writes Shea. “Also, irreversibility of neurological function is a prognosis, not a medically observable fact.”
    (quotes from LifeSiteNews article cited below.)
    There are many cases of patients who have survived so-called “brain death” , and went on to live and walk and talk again. Some patients even revived without sustained medical treatment. I hope you will take the time to review some of the survivor cases listed on this page. Just click on the relevant links.

    I also recommend the excellent - ‘Doctor Says about “Brain Dead” Man Saved from Organ Harvesting - “Brain Death is Never Really Death”’ on LifeSiteNews.com at: http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/arc...8/mar/08032709

    "The love for all living creatures is the most noble attribute of man" -Charles Darwin

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  23. #98
    Senior Member morbidT's Avatar
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    I had a long ass reply for those, but I can't waste everyone's time. Not one of those make me think any of them were declared brain dead and then woke up out of their coma. The brain dead lady who was sent home to die made me giggle a little too.

    I really think the prognosis of brain death may have been discussed with some of these people's loved ones to prepare for the worst and pleasantly surprised for the best. Prognosis is not a diagnosis.

    How many people have you heard of with a COD of "practically dead?"


    Quote Originally Posted by blighted star View Post
    ..... it wasn't anything personal, she just mistook him for a serial killer......

  24. #99
    Moderator puzzld's Avatar
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    Interesting discussion that is somewhat relevant to this case...

    http://www.ccm-l.org/discussion1/Ethics/uncoop.html
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    lol at Nestle being some vicious smiter, she's the nicest person on this site besides probably puzzld. Or at least the last person to resort to smiting.
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  25. #100
    Senior Member morbidT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by puzzld View Post
    Interesting discussion that is somewhat relevant to this case...

    http://www.ccm-l.org/discussion1/Ethics/uncoop.html

    You can tell they are physicians.

    I would never try to manipulate a family in order to obtain organs. That's just gross. The physicians shouldn't even be discussing organ donation with families, nor should any other hospital staff. The OPO's (Organ Procurement Organization) are the only ones that are supposed to approach families. An OPO would never try to manipulate a family by saying, "if you will donate organs, we will leave the vent on so your family can come from out of town to say goodbye." That is just disgusting. Allowing time for family members to travel from out of town is reasonable to keep a person on the vent without even considering organ donation.


    Quote Originally Posted by blighted star View Post
    ..... it wasn't anything personal, she just mistook him for a serial killer......

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