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Thread: Jahi McMath (13) died for real five years after she was declared brain dead following surgery complications

  1. #176
    Senior Member TupeloHoney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miller22 View Post
    No, seriously....wtf just happen?




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    I will out think the fucking pants off of you and you would thank me for helping you out of them.

  2. #177
    Senior Member animosity's Avatar
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    tupelohoney will now be referred to as 'the agent of chaos'.
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    "Say, you know who could handle this penis? MY MOTHER."

  3. #178
    sucks to your ass-mar Nancy Drew's Avatar
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    idk, I see her point. I mean, if it was MY child, and someone (especially a dr.) was telling me there was a chance, I would want to believe it more than anything, even if I knew in my heart it wasn't the truth. I don't blame the family, I blame the awful predators who are exploiting them.
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    oMG, yeah, no, AMY is in no way superior to Tara. Never.

  4. #179
    Senior Member Music's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morbidT View Post
    It actually doesn't surprise me he is in Northwest Ohio. There is a serious comprehension fail regarding brain death and organ donation in that region of Ohio. Even when they don't involve each other. And that's just the health care professionals.

    Not all. I'm sure there's one or two people who get it.
    It's scary how many people don't get it. I get it, and I have no medical training.

  5. #180
    Senior Member Just Me's Avatar
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    Is the kid still dead?? Or has she recovered as many on that facebook page claim their relative have?

  6. #181
    Moderator puzzld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Me View Post
    Is the kid still dead?? Or has she recovered as many on that facebook page claim their relative have?
    A day after spending Christmas together in a room at Children's Hospital Oakland, the family of Jahi McMath said Thursday that they are preparing to move the 13-year-old to another facility before Monday, the day doctors can legally turn off the girl's breathing machine.
    http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-...efore-deadline
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    lol at Nestle being some vicious smiter, she's the nicest person on this site besides probably puzzld. Or at least the last person to resort to smiting.
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    Why on earth would I smite you when I can ban you?

  7. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by puzzld View Post
    A day after spending Christmas together in a room at Children's Hospital Oakland, the family of Jahi McMath said Thursday that they are preparing to move the 13-year-old to another facility before Monday, the day doctors can legally turn off the girl's breathing machine.
    http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-...efore-deadline
    So her insurance is covering putting a dead girl in a care facility and "treating her as if she is alive", while my healthcare is fighting me on a chiropractic visit?! Damn, I need her insurance.

  8. #183
    Moderator puzzld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisedbywolves View Post
    So her insurance is covering putting a dead girl in a care facility and "treating her as if she is alive", while my healthcare is fighting me on a chiropractic visit?! Damn, I need her insurance.
    It sounds to me like it's a catholic facility, they are probably taking her on as a charity case. And good for them if that's the case. Put your money where your mouth is. Not that it's going to do Jahi any good.
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    lol at Nestle being some vicious smiter, she's the nicest person on this site besides probably puzzld. Or at least the last person to resort to smiting.
    Quote Originally Posted by nestlequikie View Post
    Why on earth would I smite you when I can ban you?

  9. #184
    Senior Member morbidT's Avatar
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    Puzz makes a good point. It probably is a Catholic place because the article mentions a bunch of Catholic doctors coming to their aid. I just don't see how the insurance will cover the costs. She's already been pronounced dead. I wonder if the family misunderstood that, too.

    The comments on that article are pretty decent.


    Quote Originally Posted by blighted star View Post
    ..... it wasn't anything personal, she just mistook him for a serial killer......

  10. #185
    Senior Member animosity's Avatar
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    one article i read said that one of the reasons hospitals pull the vent shortly after death is because they cover the costs for the meanwhile. they will often leave it for a day or so to allow families to gather, but the hospital is the one doing the spending after death.
    Quote Originally Posted by songbirdsong View Post
    "Say, you know who could handle this penis? MY MOTHER."

  11. #186
    Moderator puzzld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morbidT View Post
    Puzz makes a good point. It probably is a Catholic place because the article mentions a bunch of Catholic doctors coming to their aid. I just don't see how the insurance will cover the costs. She's already been pronounced dead. I wonder if the family misunderstood that, too.

    The comments on that article are pretty decent.
    I suspect (and I'm really guessing here) that it's some sort of nursing home or hospice where they'll be giving her minimal care (based on the Uncle's statement that it would be much less expensive than Children's Hospital) and I also wonder if they think they can bill medicaid, it the absence of a death certificate? Or have they issued one?
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    lol at Nestle being some vicious smiter, she's the nicest person on this site besides probably puzzld. Or at least the last person to resort to smiting.
    Quote Originally Posted by nestlequikie View Post
    Why on earth would I smite you when I can ban you?

  12. #187
    Moderator puzzld's Avatar
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    Alameda Superior Court Judge Evelio Grillo previously ruled that the hospital must hold off on any decisions regarding discontinuing life support until December 30, and the judge encouraged both sides to work together.

    Family attorney Christopher Dolan told reporters Thursday that Jahi would need to have tracheostomy and gastrostomy tubes put in before she could be moved.

    "The most logical people are the ones in the hospital where she's sitting who have the ability to do that. If they refuse to do that, and insist upon moving towards this deadline of pulling the plug, then we'll just continue to do what we've been doing," he said.

    Chief of Pediatrics David Durand responded in a statement for Children's Hospital.

    "Judge Grillo was very clear on Tuesday December 24. He ruled Jahi McMath to be deceased and instructed the hospital to maintain the status quo. Judge Grillo did not authorize or order any surgical procedures or transfer to another facility.

    "Children's Hospital Oakland does not believe that performing surgical procedures on the body of a deceased person is an appropriate medical practice. Children's Hospital Oakland continues to extend its wishes for peace and closure to Jahi McMath's family," he said.

    http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/26/health...html?hpt=hp_t2
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    lol at Nestle being some vicious smiter, she's the nicest person on this site besides probably puzzld. Or at least the last person to resort to smiting.
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    Why on earth would I smite you when I can ban you?

  13. #188
    Senior Member animosity's Avatar
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    jesus. this is getting crazy and petty and a bit ridiculous on all sides.
    Quote Originally Posted by songbirdsong View Post
    "Say, you know who could handle this penis? MY MOTHER."

  14. #189
    Senior Member morbidT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by animosity View Post
    one article i read said that one of the reasons hospitals pull the vent shortly after death is because they cover the costs for the meanwhile. they will often leave it for a day or so to allow families to gather, but the hospital is the one doing the spending after death.

    I think hospitals don't mind covering costs when it is associated with traveling families and giving family time to say their goodbyes. It's typically hours to a couple of days, which I think is very reasonable. If it involves organ donation the OPO will pick up the cost retroactive to the pronouncement.

    Quote Originally Posted by puzzld View Post
    I suspect (and I'm really guessing here) that it's some sort of nursing home or hospice where they'll be giving her minimal care (based on the Uncle's statement that it would be much less expensive than Children's Hospital) and I also wonder if they think they can bill medicaid, it the absence of a death certificate? Or have they issued one?
    I wonder if the uncle said that it would be cheaper than Children's Hospital just to try to poke a little. Like, "we don't want her there anyway nah nah nah." It very well could be cheaper though. It might be terrible to say, but I'm really hoping Jahi's heart stops while on the vent, before the 30th. Just so the madness stops, but the family will probably expect CPR.

    I don't think a death certificate has been issued because it was a coroner's case and they have yet to perform an autopsy. Even so, there has been a death pronouncement made in the medical chart so I don't know how billing an insurance carrier is going to work. I have a really hard time believing an insurance carrier has decided they will cover the costs in a long term facility. How could they get a hold of anyone and a decision be made so quickly? Just like RBW's mentioned, she can't even get an approval for a chiro appointment. Something doesn't sound right. Plus, would an insurance company want to get involved in the politics of keeping a dead person on a vent?


    I forgot to mention in my previous post, I hope the family is not able to sue the hospital. I'm sure they will try, but I hope any lawsuits are dismissed. The longer the family keeps the girl on the vent the harder it is going to be for the coroner to come up with a COD. The family will probably say the coroner is incompetent when it comes time for the autopsy, because it may be inconclusive, and will probably be digging this poor girl up for decades getting second, third, fourth opinions.


    Quote Originally Posted by blighted star View Post
    ..... it wasn't anything personal, she just mistook him for a serial killer......

  15. #190
    Moderator puzzld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morbidT View Post
    I think hospitals don't mind covering costs when it is associated with traveling families and giving family time to say their goodbyes. It's typically hours to a couple of days, which I think is very reasonable. If it involves organ donation the OPO will pick up the cost retroactive to the pronouncement.



    I wonder if the uncle said that it would be cheaper than Children's Hospital just to try to poke a little. Like, "we don't want her there anyway nah nah nah." It very well could be cheaper though. It might be terrible to say, but I'm really hoping Jahi's heart stops while on the vent, before the 30th. Just so the madness stops, but the family will probably expect CPR.

    I don't think a death certificate has been issued because it was a coroner's case and they have yet to perform an autopsy. Even so, there has been a death pronouncement made in the medical chart so I don't know how billing an insurance carrier is going to work. I have a really hard time believing an insurance carrier has decided they will cover the costs in a long term facility. How could they get a hold of anyone and a decision be made so quickly? Just like RBW's mentioned, she can't even get an approval for a chiro appointment. Something doesn't sound right. Plus, would an insurance company want to get involved in the politics of keeping a dead person on a vent?


    I forgot to mention in my previous post, I hope the family is not able to sue the hospital. I'm sure they will try, but I hope any lawsuits are dismissed. The longer the family keeps the girl on the vent the harder it is going to be for the coroner to come up with a COD. The family will probably say the coroner is incompetent when it comes time for the autopsy, because it may be inconclusive, and will probably be digging this poor girl up for decades getting second, third, fourth opinions.
    All of this. I understand how devastated the family must be, but none of what they are doing is going to help. Of course nothing will bring Jahi back, but beyond that, they are just piling grief upon grief.
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    lol at Nestle being some vicious smiter, she's the nicest person on this site besides probably puzzld. Or at least the last person to resort to smiting.
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    Why on earth would I smite you when I can ban you?

  16. #191
    Senior Member morbidT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by puzzld View Post
    Alameda Superior Court Judge Evelio Grillo previously ruled that the hospital must hold off on any decisions regarding discontinuing life support until December 30, and the judge encouraged both sides to work together.

    Family attorney Christopher Dolan told reporters Thursday that Jahi would need to have tracheostomy and gastrostomy tubes put in before she could be moved.

    "The most logical people are the ones in the hospital where she's sitting who have the ability to do that. If they refuse to do that, and insist upon moving towards this deadline of pulling the plug, then we'll just continue to do what we've been doing," he said.


    Chief of Pediatrics David Durand responded in a statement for Children's Hospital.

    "Judge Grillo was very clear on Tuesday December 24. He ruled Jahi McMath to be deceased and instructed the hospital to maintain the status quo. Judge Grillo did not authorize or order any surgical procedures or transfer to another facility.

    "Children's Hospital Oakland does not believe that performing surgical procedures on the body of a deceased person is an appropriate medical practice. Children's Hospital Oakland continues to extend its wishes for peace and closure to Jahi McMath's family," he said.

    http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/26/health...html?hpt=hp_t2


    Holy crap! I was typing my response when you posted this one.

    Does anyone see the irony here? This family is accusing the hospital of killing or trying to kill their kid. They didn't believe the doctors that are associated with the hospital that the girl is dead. But they want the hospital to perform, at least, two more surgical procedures on her? What if they "kill" her during the procedure? The procedures will be a lot cheaper this time around considering no anesthesia will be needed.


    Quote Originally Posted by blighted star View Post
    ..... it wasn't anything personal, she just mistook him for a serial killer......

  17. #192
    Senior Member morbidT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by animosity View Post
    jesus. this is getting crazy and petty and a bit ridiculous on all sides.
    It's crazy, but I don't see that the hospital is being petty. It IS inappropriate to keep a dead person on a vent, provide long term care, and/or perform surgical procedures.

    Quote Originally Posted by puzzld View Post
    All of this. I understand how devastated the family must be, but none of what they are doing is going to help. Of course nothing will bring Jahi back, but beyond that, they are just piling grief upon grief.
    And all of this.


    Quote Originally Posted by blighted star View Post
    ..... it wasn't anything personal, she just mistook him for a serial killer......

  18. #193
    Senior Member animosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morbidT View Post
    It's crazy, but I don't see that the hospital is being petty. It IS inappropriate to keep a dead person on a vent, provide long term care, and/or perform surgical procedures.



    And all of this.
    i mean, it's petty but reasonable. as in: we are going to stand by our stance no-matter-fucking-what. they can pull the plug on the 30th and the family wants to move her by then so it doesn't happen - what's the point of refusing to make the transfer possible just so you can pull the plug? just do it and get her the fuck out of there... somebody else's problem.

    i understand the need to make it clear/set precedence/blah blah blah, but it does look a little petty to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by songbirdsong View Post
    "Say, you know who could handle this penis? MY MOTHER."

  19. #194
    Senior Member morbidT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by animosity View Post
    i mean, it's petty but reasonable. as in: we are going to stand by our stance no-matter-fucking-what. they can pull the plug on the 30th and the family wants to move her by then so it doesn't happen - what's the point of refusing to make the transfer possible just so you can pull the plug? just do it and get her the fuck out of there... somebody else's problem.

    i understand the need to make it clear/set precedence/blah blah blah, but it does look a little petty to me.
    The hospital isn't standing in their way of the transfer, though. It's the receiving facility that wants the tracheostomy and gastrostomy. The hospital is just stating the facts; the girl is deceased and it is inappropriate to continue life sustaining measures or perform any on someone who will not benefit from them because they are deceased. If the girl was in a coma or vegetative state it would be reasonable. It's unreasonable for the family to think any facility should do what they are requesting.

    I'm not trying to change your mind or arguing your point, btw. I'm just responding as to the whys.


    Quote Originally Posted by blighted star View Post
    ..... it wasn't anything personal, she just mistook him for a serial killer......

  20. #195
    Senior Member animosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morbidT View Post
    The hospital isn't standing in their way of the transfer, though. It's the receiving facility that wants the tracheostomy and gastrostomy. The hospital is just stating the facts; the girl is deceased and it is inappropriate to continue life sustaining measures or perform any on someone who will not benefit from them because they are deceased. If the girl was in a coma or vegetative state it would be reasonable. It's unreasonable for the family to think any facility should do what they are requesting.

    I'm not trying to change your mind or arguing your point, btw. I'm just responding as to the whys.
    oh, i know. i bet that they would also move to block anyone from a different facility coming in to do the procedure citing liability protocol though. i guess we'll find out in a day or two.
    Quote Originally Posted by songbirdsong View Post
    "Say, you know who could handle this penis? MY MOTHER."

  21. #196
    Senior Member morbidT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by animosity View Post
    oh, i know. i bet that they would also move to block anyone from a different facility coming in to do the procedure citing liability protocol though. i guess we'll find out in a day or two.
    Oh yeah, I definitely don't think the hospital will allow someone else in to perform the procedures. The family might ask the court to find a surgeon who will do it and require the hospital to allow the procedure to be done at their facility.


    Quote Originally Posted by blighted star View Post
    ..... it wasn't anything personal, she just mistook him for a serial killer......

  22. #197
    Senior Member animosity's Avatar
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    that's what i mean by petty. now they get to go through a whole other round of court proceedings when they could just say: you know what? ok... we'll go ahead and cut a little hole into her neck so you can take her off our hands because right now we are losing money and resources having her here. and money and resources going to court every tuesday.

    it smells like company lawyer drawing the line in the sand and putting the hurt down to prepare for the million dollar lawsuit.
    Quote Originally Posted by songbirdsong View Post
    "Say, you know who could handle this penis? MY MOTHER."

  23. #198
    Senior Member morbidT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by animosity View Post
    that's what i mean by petty. now they get to go through a whole other round of court proceedings when they could just say: you know what? ok... we'll go ahead and cut a little hole into her neck so you can take her off our hands because right now we are losing money and resources having her here. and money and resources going to court every tuesday.

    it smells like company lawyer drawing the line in the sand and putting the hurt down to prepare for the million dollar lawsuit.
    Besides what I mentioned earlier, I really don't think it's a wise decision for the hospital to perform the procedures. What if her heart stops during the procedure? The family will really say the hospital killed their kid (even though she's already dead). That's more liability. I really think it is a no win situation. The hospital is damned if they do and damned if they don't.


    Quote Originally Posted by blighted star View Post
    ..... it wasn't anything personal, she just mistook him for a serial killer......

  24. #199
    Senior Member animosity's Avatar
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    you are right on there. i didn't even think about her re-dying. can dead people die again? without a head shot, i mean.
    Quote Originally Posted by songbirdsong View Post
    "Say, you know who could handle this penis? MY MOTHER."

  25. #200
    Senior Member morbidT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by animosity View Post
    you are right on there. i didn't even think about her re-dying. can dead people die again? without a head shot, i mean.
    Nope, but who knows with this case. Unless the courts have required something else her date of death will remain December 12th no matter when her heart stops.

    And since you brought up the head shot. I don't understand why the only thing that kills zombies is a head shot. On The Walking Dead the dude at the CDC showed how the brain has no activity so zombies are brain dead. Why is trauma to the head necessary if there is no brain activity? The trauma should be done to the brain stem.

    I've had organ donors crash and we performed CPR. They crashed because they were dead and we did CPR to keep the oxygen perfusion for the organ procurement.


    Quote Originally Posted by blighted star View Post
    ..... it wasn't anything personal, she just mistook him for a serial killer......

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