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Thread: Martin McNeil Murder Trial

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    Martin McNeil Murder Trial

    Daughter of accused killer gets emotional in court

    Fighting back tears, the daughter of Dr. Martin MacNeill took the stand for the prosecution in his murder trial. She got emotional when she was asked about the time after her mother, Michele, had died and she was asked about her autopsy.

    Rachel also testified earlier that growing up she felt her father was "her best friend."

    http://www.hlntv.com/video/2013/10/2...1&sf18724445=1

    Is anyone else watching this trial? I felt that the defense screwed up with the daughter today, it was painful to watch her on the stand. Do you think they will let Ada (who was six when she found her mother) testify?

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    Senior Member Bellaboo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dianalyn View Post
    Daughter of accused killer gets emotional in court

    Fighting back tears, the daughter of Dr. Martin MacNeill took the stand for the prosecution in his murder trial. She got emotional when she was asked about the time after her mother, Michele, had died and she was asked about her autopsy.

    Rachel also testified earlier that growing up she felt her father was "her best friend."

    http://www.hlntv.com/video/2013/10/2...1&sf18724445=1

    Is anyone else watching this trial? I felt that the defense screwed up with the daughter today, it was painful to watch her on the stand. Do you think they will let Ada (who was six when she found her mother) testify?
    DIANALYN, thanks for opening this thread .... I am watching this trial. It was so sad and painful watching the daughter testify. Her pain and distress are palpable. I think they won't let Ada testify. Boy I hated the defense attorneys, especially the female one. I can't believe the daughter's med/psych records were admissible but not negative records about what a fraud the doctor is. I do like the judge. What a tragically messed up family

    "Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves" .. Confucius
    "The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation " ...... Henry David Thoreau

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    Senior Member Tree Wizard's Avatar
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    Is trial watching just an American thing? I've heard of people watching them, but like... is it some cable channel thing or?

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    Senior Member Bellaboo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tree Wizard View Post
    Is trial watching just an American thing? I've heard of people watching them, but like... is it some cable channel thing or?
    This trial is on cable ... on HLN. Some cases are interesting and you flip on the channel and get drawn in ..... It is interesting to watch defense strategies. Sadly our dockets are full of murder of husbands, wives, children, strangers

    "Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves" .. Confucius
    "The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation " ...... Henry David Thoreau

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    Moderator bowieluva's Avatar
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    For the future, please link articles explaining the nature of what a trial is.
    http://www.people.com/people/article...746736,00.html
    A model of the bathtub a former beauty queen died in took center stage inside a Utah courtroom Friday as her husband stands trial on charges of killing her after convincing her to get a facelift she didn't want, then giving her a lethal combination of prescription drugs and helping her into the bath.

    Prosecutors hoped to haul the actual bathtub into court for a demonstration of Michele MacNeill's death, but a model was used instead, according to CNN. The trial will continue with testimony from neighbors, police and paramedics who arrived at the couple's home to find Martin MacNeill's wife comatose.

    You slept with mike so he would ban me. change your sig..the pretentious look how hipster face is so old ooh you like guys with glasses..ooooh

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    You can also watch it online at -wildabouttrial.com, they have links to several different trials, this is just interesting to me. Bowie, sorry for not including more information, I was surprised there was not a thread for this already.

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    Moderator bowieluva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dianalyn View Post
    You can also watch it online at -wildabouttrial.com, they have links to several different trials, this is just interesting to me. Bowie, sorry for not including more information, I was surprised there was not a thread for this already.
    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57...tml.csp?page=2

    My guess is that this guy will be acquitted because there's no real cause of death. Too iffy. Maybe he was an asshole who didn't care and didn't love his wife but it doesn't sound like there's enough to convict.

    You slept with mike so he would ban me. change your sig..the pretentious look how hipster face is so old ooh you like guys with glasses..ooooh

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    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57...tml.csp?page=2

    My guess is that this guy will be acquitted because there's no real cause of death. Too iffy. Maybe he was an asshole who didn't care and didn't love his wife but it doesn't sound like there's enough to convict.
    I agree, I also think this is his defense, that he is a jerk but that does not make him a murderer. I believe there were three medical examiners who all had a different cause of death and none of them said homicide. I do think he did it but I don't think they can prove it.

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    What did you think of Gypsy's testimony so far? I saw her smile at him one time from the stand but when she walked out she did not even look at him, it seems as though the love affair is over. He is a jerk texting on the day of his wife's death 30 times to her and 22 times on the day of the funeral but again nothing proves murder.

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    Senior Member Bellaboo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dianalyn View Post
    What did you think of Gypsy's testimony so far? I saw her smile at him one time from the stand but when she walked out she did not even look at him, it seems as though the love affair is over. He is a jerk texting on the day of his wife's death 30 times to her and 22 times on the day of the funeral but again nothing proves murder.
    I watched the first ten minutes Gypsy was on the stand and went out ..... I watched the rest on wild about trial. Nothing exceptional so far other than the fact of their ongoing affair. It will be interesting to see how this progresses. I believe he is guilty but not sure if there is enough evidence to sway a jury.

    "Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves" .. Confucius
    "The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation " ...... Henry David Thoreau

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    Martin MacNeill: Was his wife Michele's death accidental or was it murder?

    Editor's note: For more than a year, Deseret News reporter Sara Lenz has investigated the life of Martin MacNeill. The information in this story comes from court documents, 911 calls, police reports, an autopsy report, a search warrant affidavit, psychology reports and dozens of interviews with investigators, attorneys, police officers, neighbors, victims and family members detailing why some believe MacNeill may have killed his wife, Michele.

    A scripted life?

    Utah County investigator Jeff Robinson compares Martin MacNeill's life to the movie "Catch Me If You Can," but says the movie "paled in comparison."

    MacNeill, the former Utah State Developmental Center clinical director and Pleasant Grove resident, is serving a prison sentence for fraud, forgery and identity theft. But investigators believe he spent a lifetime getting away with other crimes — including murder. And family sources expect a murder charge may be filed against him next month.

    "MacNeill's a thespian," said investigator Doug Witney, who has spent nearly three years researching MacNeill and the suspicious death of his wife, Michele. "It appears his whole life was scripted and staged."

    Witney said MacNeill used his position as a doctor to have access to women and used his title as attorney to get around the law.

    But three and a half years ago, many people who now believe MacNeill killed his wife, thought he was an upstanding citizen, a devoted husband and a loving father. One daughter went into medicine because of his example of helping others. Another daughter said she became an avid reader thanks to her father, who spent hours and hours discussing hundreds of books with her.

    "The father that I knew was a fictional character. It was an act the whole time," his oldest daughter, Rachel, said.

    Neighbors also said the MacNeill family seemed "perfect" on the outside. But relatives of MacNeill's wife say they had an inkling from the beginning that something wasn't right.

    *****

    Helen Somers was afraid for her daughter the first time she met Martin MacNeill.

    Her soon to be son-in-law didn't seem genuine. "I had a bad feeling about him," she said.

    Her bishop even called her and warned her not to allow her daughter Michele to go out with him, she said, but he couldn't say why.

    "I thought he was just a big actor," recalled Michele's younger sister, Linda Cluff. "He walked in like he owned the house. He just gave me the creeps."

    Despite her family's misgivings, Michele fell for Martin hard. Partly because the family didn't approve, the couple's dating became secretive. She felt sorry for her new boyfriend. "She would defend him and say, 'If you only knew about his childhood …,' " Cluff said of her sister.

    Martin had told Michele he loved her so much and couldn't live without her — even once putting a gun to his head and telling her he'd kill himself if she stopped dating him.

    Shortly after learning Martin had eloped with Michele, Somers spotted a newspaper article about her new son-in-law with the headline: " 'Brilliant' forgery spree inspired by TV."

    Just before meeting Michele, Martin had forged $35,000 in checks and had gone on a three-day spending spree buying diamond rings, 60 pairs of socks, couches, chairs, a grandfather clock, watches, bicycles, a refrigerator, 20 pairs of shoes, TVs, tires, a wardrobe of clothes and more.

    "I don't know why I did it," Martin later told a court psychiatrist. "I didn't want the stuff. I didn't need the stuff."

    Martin told police he got the idea after watching a "60 Minutes" episode about how check forgers worked. He told friends he could do it better and with fewer risks.

    Somers wanted to learn more about her new son-in-law. She obtained records about his crimes and soon learned that Martin was discharged from the military for schizophrenia after hearing voices.

    "I wouldn't be surprised if he killed her some day," Somers remembers telling two of her other daughters 31 years ago.

    Now, three and a half years since Michele's death at her Pleasant Grove home, Utah County investigators believe Martin murdered his wife, then covered it all up, according to an affidavit filed in 4th District Court.

    An autopsy concluded that the mother of eight died suddenly due to natural causes, including myocarditis (an inflammation of the heart), cardiovascular disease and hypertension. However, the Deseret News has learned that investigators just recently convinced the Utah State Medical Examiner's Office to change the manner of death to "undetermined" and "suspicious."

    But Michele's mother, four of her five siblings, and now Martin's own children — who grew up idolizing their father as a well-respected doctor and attorney in Utah County — have told the Deseret News they believe the cause of death should be homicide.

    The family believes, and investigators from the Utah County Attorney's Office wrote in an affidavit, that Martin had the know-how to kill his wife and make it look like an accident.

    Some even suspect Martin may have killed others.

    Early years
    Michele was a tomboy growing up in Concord, Calif., but she later picked up the violin, participated in theater, became a cheerleader and even won homecoming queen in high school. She excelled at everything she did, was a straight-A student and was an active member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. She later became a model and participated in four beauty pageants — culminating in being crowned Miss Concord in 1976.

    Everyone seemed to like Michele, Cluff said, especially the boys. She always had more guy friends than girlfriends. Shortly after she returned home from being an exchange student in Switzerland, a Swiss boy came to California to visit her.

    Right after this, Michele met Martin at an LDS young adult activity and they "went into a whirlwind of dating," a family member said.

    Michele's relationship with her family became somewhat strained after she eloped in 1978, and even more after the family learned of Martin's criminal behavior.

    Four months after tying the knot, Martin served a six-month jail sentence for his forgery, theft and fraud charges. Their first child, Rachel, was born the next year.

    The young family lived in Mexico in 1980 while Martin attended a semester of medical school, then moved to California, New York and later to Utah, where Martin obtained his medical license in 1987. By this time, the couple had added three other children to their family.

    Martin worked part time at the BYU Health Center while earning a law degree. He graduated from BYU's law school in 1990 and worked as a physician at the Health Center for some time before taking a position as director of Medical Law Comp in Washington and then returning to Utah.

    A few years later, the couple adopted five more children — four from the Ukraine. One of those adoptions was later terminated, making a family of eight children: Rachel, Vanessa, Alexis, Damian, Giselle, Sabrina, Elle and Ada.

    Friends and family describe Michele as one of the most kind, generous, loving people they had ever met. She devoted her life to her family, said daughter Alexis, who called her mom her best friend.
    "She made everything and everyone not just look — but feel — beautiful," said her oldest daughter, Rachel. "She was an angel walking among us."

    "She told us we were her princesses," Elle said during her mother's funeral.

    Neighbor LoRene Hernandez considered Michele her mentor and said Michele was always serving those around her.

    "It's still hard for me to drive by her house," Hernandez said. "There is just such a void. Not a day goes by that I don't think about her and her kids."
    this is really long the rest with 911 call and photos here - http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7...er.html?pg=all

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    This is a website that Rachel (the oldest daughter) made for Damien, her brother who committed suicide-

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    Dr. Martin MacNeill: Legal Commentary

    We all waited with bated breath for Gypsy’s testimony but what we got fell extremely short. Here’s what our founder and the creator of Wild About trial thinks of the prosecutor’s direct examination of Gypsy Willis:

    Oct. 29, 2013 - As a trial attorney myself, I believe that the prosecutor blew a golden opportunity to prove motive. If Dr. Martin MacNeill murdered his wife, Gypsy Willis was his reason for doing so. The prosecution failed to properly question her even after the Judge ruled that she could be treated as a hostile witness. She was never made to squirm. She was never asked if she was remorseful about carrying on an affair with a married man, she was never asked if moving into the house he shared with his wife weeks after her death was wrong, she was never asked to explain why she would carrying on a text conversation with Dr. MacNeill during his wife’s funeral and how inappropriate that was. The prosecution should have more thoroughly walked her through the number of phone calls and text messages they exchanged. The prosecution should have hammered home the amount of lies they told in an effort to conceal their relationship. She was never asked about how deep her love was/is for him and that only his incarceration has kept them apart. Instead, the jury was left with the impression that this was a casual affair and that Dr. MacNeill never intended to leave his wife for Gypsy. In sum, the prosecution completely blew a golden opportunity to prove motive. An opportunity that may cost them the case.

    Alison Triessl, founder of Wild About Trial

    http://www.wildabouttrial.com/legal_...al-commentary/

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    Senior Member Bellaboo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dianalyn View Post
    Dr. Martin MacNeill: Legal Commentary

    We all waited with bated breath for Gypsy’s testimony but what we got fell extremely short. Here’s what our founder and the creator of Wild About trial thinks of the prosecutor’s direct examination of Gypsy Willis:

    Oct. 29, 2013 - As a trial attorney myself, I believe that the prosecutor blew a golden opportunity to prove motive. If Dr. Martin MacNeill murdered his wife, Gypsy Willis was his reason for doing so. The prosecution failed to properly question her even after the Judge ruled that she could be treated as a hostile witness. She was never made to squirm. She was never asked if she was remorseful about carrying on an affair with a married man, she was never asked if moving into the house he shared with his wife weeks after her death was wrong, she was never asked to explain why she would carrying on a text conversation with Dr. MacNeill during his wife’s funeral and how inappropriate that was. The prosecution should have more thoroughly walked her through the number of phone calls and text messages they exchanged. The prosecution should have hammered home the amount of lies they told in an effort to conceal their relationship. She was never asked about how deep her love was/is for him and that only his incarceration has kept them apart. Instead, the jury was left with the impression that this was a casual affair and that Dr. MacNeill never intended to leave his wife for Gypsy. In sum, the prosecution completely blew a golden opportunity to prove motive. An opportunity that may cost them the case.

    Alison Triessl, founder of Wild About Trial

    http://www.wildabouttrial.com/legal_...al-commentary/
    I agree. The Prosecution did a dreadful job of examining the mistress. I don't see a conviction as the end result of this trial although I do believe that the doctor is guilty.
    As Bowie noted, the inability of any of the medical examiners to state homicide as the cause of death is an insurmountable obstacle.

    "Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves" .. Confucius
    "The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation " ...... Henry David Thoreau

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    Senior Member bermstalker's Avatar
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    Gypsy Willis and Martin MacNeill had a 'casual' 15-month affair before his wife Michelle died in their bathtub in April 2007
    Prosecutors claim he pressured his wife into getting a facelift so he could kill her with prescription drugs afterwards and continue the affair
    Willis testified on Tuesday that he proposed within months of Michelle's death and gave her a $7,000 diamond ring


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz2jCWcgAgU


    What a skank. She's enjoying the limelight. I hate her
    Willis was testifying under a deal with prosecutors that kept her out of jail on identity-theft charges. She was accused of taking the identity of one of MacNeill's adopted daughters to escape a debt-heavy credit history

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz2jCX71Pz6



    IMO, the wife was way hotter.

    'In the name of King David, I threw a piece of raw meat into the street in exchange for (giving) my husband to the wild rabid dogs,' (Jean Kasem)


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    Her parents were on After Dark last night and they seem truly disgusted by how she has behaved and how she has hurt his family. He is despicable, burying his wife of 30 years in a pine box while buying this skank a 4.5 carat ring.

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    Moderator bowieluva's Avatar
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    I don't think there's enough evidence to convict. He might have done it but it's just as plausible that this woman was so depressed by how much she was doing to keep her cheating man that she took too many pills, or that she was over medicating, etc. His behavior would depress me. It's not hard to figure out when someone doesn't love you at all, no matter what you do.

    At least they'll meet up again in Mormon heaven and figure things out there.

    You slept with mike so he would ban me. change your sig..the pretentious look how hipster face is so old ooh you like guys with glasses..ooooh

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    Senior Member Cocopop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bermstalker View Post

    IMO, the wife was way hotter.
    Agree

    I do think the jury will find him Guilty.
    May not have a confirmation of foul play in autopsy, but there is way too much circumstantial evidence. Add everything up, and reasonable doubt of innocence is gone. IMO

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    Shortie Nic B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dianalyn View Post
    This is a website that Rachel (the oldest daughter) made for Damien, her brother who committed suicide-
    That video was so sad...does anyone know more about him and what happened? He seemed so happy in the video...but I guess only the happy moments make the cut.


    Quote Originally Posted by marakisses View Post
    yes i said i will leave it under you storage he said cuddle with me i said shut up it over??? what am i doing wrong??

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    Senior Member Sneakers the Wonder Dog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nic B View Post
    That video was so sad...does anyone know more about him and what happened? He seemed so happy in the video...but I guess only the happy moments make the cut.
    There is a little bit of info here

    http://www.courtchatter.com/2013/10/...killer-or.html
    http://mydeathspace.com/vb/signaturepics/sigpic83661_1.gif

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    Senior Member Sneakers the Wonder Dog's Avatar
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    Website with lot's of info on this case:

    How did Martin get caught with identity theft and thus discovered? The true story and much more.

    The events that led up to Martin being caught for identity theft creating the foundation for the more horrifying parts to surface, is an interestingly coincidental story.

    http://martinmacneill.info/?p=325
    http://mydeathspace.com/vb/signaturepics/sigpic83661_1.gif

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    Moderator bowieluva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocopop View Post
    Agree

    I do think the jury will find him Guilty.
    May not have a confirmation of foul play in autopsy, but there is way too much circumstantial evidence. Add everything up, and reasonable doubt of innocence is gone. IMO
    Oh, I very much disagree. There is NO circumstantial evidence. There's just evidence that he was a shitty husband. There's not even a caused of death. Like I said, just looking at the case, it's as likely that she killed herself because he was inflicting so much emotional pain. I don't see how any jury could convict based on this case presented unless they were actually just finding him guilty of being a terrible person.

    But a murderer? There's nothing. There's barely a case. I'm surprised it made it to court. I'm surprised a judge hasn't dismissed it. All you have are gut feelings and him admitting to a volley of affairs as well as being a superficial prick.

    You slept with mike so he would ban me. change your sig..the pretentious look how hipster face is so old ooh you like guys with glasses..ooooh

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    Senior Member Cocopop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    Oh, I very much disagree. There is NO circumstantial evidence. There's just evidence that he was a shitty husband. There's not even a caused of death. Like I said, just looking at the case, it's as likely that she killed herself because he was inflicting so much emotional pain. I don't see how any jury could convict based on this case presented unless they were actually just finding him guilty of being a terrible person.

    But a murderer? There's nothing. There's barely a case. I'm surprised it made it to court. I'm surprised a judge hasn't dismissed it. All you have are gut feelings and him admitting to a volley of affairs as well as being a superficial prick.
    *Cheating
    *Doc urged facelift vs Doc upset Michelle wanted Facelift
    *Doc req'd over prescribed rx's vs Michelle needing &/or wanting them
    *Alexis (sp) wanted to stay bedside vs Doc urging her to go rest & go back home
    *Doc req'd Pic at event that he really didn't want to go to (prior yrs)
    *Doc changed time of Award at event
    *Unaccounted whereabouts early am thru 10:50am
    *Picks up Ada (unusual)
    *Doc text Michelle "stay in bed, I'll be home to make a lovely lunch" (ha- attempt to create evidence of why he was coming home)
    *6 yr old Ada finds Michelle (how convienant)
    *Ada remembers Michelle had pants on
    *Doc cannot lift wife from tub (ha)
    *Doc suddenly forgets cannot likely preform adiquate cpr on something other then a flat hard surface
    * Doc uses cane, says has cancer, MS, & a booboo big toe, is dying.
    *Neighbors/friends explain how Doc explained how he found her slumped over head first feet out of tub vs other accounts of neighbors & Ada finding her all the way in tub
    *Was he truly breathing into Michelle's mouth while neighbor giving compressions
    *Offering 10 grand to ER doc to continue life saving efforts (ha -attempt to create evidence of his undieing love & concern)
    *Funeral speech-- all about me, me, poor me & his childhood
    *How he will now learn to be a bachlor (who says that)
    *Planning a meeting at church nonetheless w/ daughter to pray for a nanny & BOOM, Gypsy shows up (a nurse) He acts like he doesn't know her name or number (but's been fucking her)
    *Calls a family meeting to interview some Nannys (all while knowing the only "nanny" showing up is his fuck partner, unbeknownst to his family.
    *Michelle knew of affair w/ Gypsy & Alexis knew her full name.
    *Moves Gypsy in & buys a 7k rock w/ in months
    ***there is way more, but tired of typing :P


    I don't care who you are I would cry like a MF*ing baby, evn if my ex died suddenly, during, while & after the funeral.
    *** IMO-- this was all planned out by a cheating loser of a Doctor/Attorney, that wanted his shebangs w/ another. Everything was a blatant scheme.
    So Agree to Disagree, respectfully.

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    Senior Member debk589's Avatar
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    The majority of those are just pointing to the fact that he was a shitty husband, shitty doctor, and all in all shitty human being. As much I do think he's guilty as can be, just like Casey Anthony, I really don't think there's enough evidence to convict here. I feel like if there was a conviction it would be a gross display of how our "Innocent Until Proven Guilty" fails again. He hasn't been PROVEN guilty here, by any means.

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    Moderator bowieluva's Avatar
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    Yeh, that's just evidence that he's a shitty person. It doesn't prove murder at all. The ME doesn't even know if she was murdered anyway.

    You slept with mike so he would ban me. change your sig..the pretentious look how hipster face is so old ooh you like guys with glasses..ooooh

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