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  1. #26
    NOT SAME CAT Fleta's Avatar
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    Okay, I am a fan of healthcare. Established.

    I have heard (and have no facts to support, but considering the source was the president of my company, I'm inclined to think he knew what he was talking about...) that companies who fail to offer full-time employees a certain level of healthcare coverage will be penalized. We're talking fined per employee. However, for the first few years, paying the fine will still be cheaper than the rates employers would have to pay to provide the coverage.

    I do know that we used to offer decent coverage to MINIMUM WAGE employees. It wasn't great, but it wasn't terrible, and was affordable. I know that changed and we now only offer crappy pseudo-coverage for hourly employees (which was apparently done so the salaried employees would be able to keep our affordable rates and good(ish) coverage.

    We were also advised that because of this, we would have to stop hiring full-time and only offer part-time, as we are not required to have coverage for part-timers. So instead of a full-time job with some coverage, we are looking at people working one or more part-time jobs, and still having to find their own coverage.

    I don't know if all my facts are right, but this is what I understand, making it kind of crappy for my small company's business, and really sucks for the employees who will have to find second jobs to make ends meet, AND pay for their own coverage.

  2. #27
    Senior Member marycontrary's Avatar
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    He's cool with race...I've never seen or heard anything negative from him. He thinks abotion is a female issue and men should not have opinions on it. He's a little shady on gay rights, but he has come a long way. We're an older couple and he is sort of stubborn in hanging on to the values he grew up with. I am beyond not being affiliated with a church, I am a true unbeliever. It's not for a lack of trying and studying. I just have no faith. I'm out of the closet on that and it's tough with some family members. Hubby believes in some kind of higher power..just not a heaven and hell kind of thing.
    When I went out on my own Carter was president. It sucked, I was living in San Diego at the time and I spent many hours in line for gas. Reagan came along and Iran released the hostages and life improved..that's when I became a republican. There were bits and pieces of bullshit like the Iran-contra thing that had me thinking, but it was Sara Palin and the tea party that turned me. Now they just seem like a greedy bunch of mean old men. Hubby really thinks the Repubs are fiscally conservative and for smaller governement. I think he had too much fox koolaid. He thinks Obamacare was a slam dunk and he hates Pelossi because she said we won't know what's in the bill until it gets passed. He thinks no one has read the whole thing and why is it so big? He buys into the Obama born in Kenya bullshit. He pretty much won't talk politics with me anymore. As long as he doesn't turn on fox news, we'll get along.

  3. #28
    Senior Member puzzld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fleta View Post
    Okay, I am a fan of healthcare. Established.
    Fleta. Much of what you said is true. Companies with more than 50 employees will be penalized for not providing coverage... But of course companies never provided coverage out of the goodnees of their hearts they provided it because they couldn't get good employees without it because the competition was providing insurance. I believe that as the economy improves (if it does) companies who don't provide coverage, and worse, only hire part time will find it hard/impossible to fill their positions. And we'll see more and more of the biggies hiring ft workers. But maybe not.
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    lol at Nestle being some vicious smiter, she's the nicest person on this site besides probably puzzld. Or at least the last person to resort to smiting.
    Quote Originally Posted by nestlequikie View Post
    Why on earth would I smite you when I can ban you?

  4. #29
    Senior Member marycontrary's Avatar
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    I'll put that on my reading list, although I imagine it's the religion that binds them to the party.

  5. #30
    fun hater Shins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marycontrary View Post
    He's cool with race...I've never seen or heard anything negative from him. He thinks abotion is a female issue and men should not have opinions on it. He's a little shady on gay rights, but he has come a long way. We're an older couple and he is sort of stubborn in hanging on to the values he grew up with. I am beyond not being affiliated with a church, I am a true unbeliever. It's not for a lack of trying and studying. I just have no faith. I'm out of the closet on that and it's tough with some family members. Hubby believes in some kind of higher power..just not a heaven and hell kind of thing.
    When I went out on my own Carter was president. It sucked, I was living in San Diego at the time and I spent many hours in line for gas. Reagan came along and Iran released the hostages and life improved..that's when I became a republican. There were bits and pieces of bullshit like the Iran-contra thing that had me thinking, but it was Sara Palin and the tea party that turned me. Now they just seem like a greedy bunch of mean old men. Hubby really thinks the Repubs are fiscally conservative and for smaller governement. I think he had too much fox koolaid. He thinks Obamacare was a slam dunk and he hates Pelossi because she said we won't know what's in the bill until it gets passed. He thinks no one has read the whole thing and why is it so big? He buys into the Obama born in Kenya bullshit. He pretty much won't talk politics with me anymore. As long as he doesn't turn on fox news, we'll get along.
    Very interesting. I'm not being snarky, I really find this interesting. Thanks for sharing.
    I did snort when you said he believes in Obama being born in Kenya though.


    As far as employers not providing their workers healthcare - that's their choice, but a really shitty one when you think about it... They will get what they pay for. Hire a bunch of part time workers who have second jobs, and you're going to not see the same quality work, and likely more sick/call off days. If you're serious about your business and your product, you will depend on quality support. In order to get quality support, you need to care for it.

    A penny saved is a penny.
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    Listen, if no one cares when a crazy noodle walks in and executes children with a gun, no one cares about anything.

  6. #31
    NOT SAME CAT Fleta's Avatar
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    It's not a manner of being cheap, it's a manner of staying in business. But companies will just end up jacking up prices to compensate, making things more expensive for everyone. Fucking endless cycle.

    Why can't we just curb the actual COST of healthcare? As in the people who profit off of these godawful hospital bills and shit? Rather than put the brakes on their greed, we make it more expensive for others to support their income. Gah. Fuck this shit. I quit.

  7. #32
    fun hater Shins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fleta View Post
    It's not a manner of being cheap, it's a manner of staying in business. But companies will just end up jacking up prices to compensate, making things more expensive for everyone. Fucking endless cycle.

    Why can't we just curb the actual COST of healthcare? As in the people who profit off of these godawful hospital bills and shit? Rather than put the brakes on their greed, we make it more expensive for others to support their income. Gah. Fuck this shit. I quit.
    Well that's like what Bowie said. The bigger issue that's not being looked at is attacking the insurance and pharmaceutical industries. I completely agree.

    But face it, a majority of businesses can afford to provide their workers health care. Many are just not doing it because it's more in their pocket. As far is it being more expensive, my employer got a discount on our healthcare because we took physicals for the insurance company. So those who had insurance through my work paid less in 2013 than they did in 2012.
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    Listen, if no one cares when a crazy noodle walks in and executes children with a gun, no one cares about anything.

  8. #33
    NOT SAME CAT Fleta's Avatar
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    The insurance and pharmaceutical companies are all fine and well, but do you know how much it costs just to have an ambulance show up, even if they don't take you anywhere? I know MRI machines and shit are expensive, but seriously... I lost consciousness and hit my head a few months ago. I ended up with some stitches and no answers after staying overnight in the hospital. And received over $27,000 in bills, along with recommendations for follow-up with the neurologists. The pills were cheap. The ambulance, the room, the MRIs, and most of all the "physicians fees" are what blew my mind. Without insurance, I would be filing. Fuck, I can't even afford the $300/month they are demanding FOR MY COPAYMENTS. I'm going to get sent to collections for fucking copayments.

  9. #34
    Moderator bowieluva's Avatar
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    Also, fuck people like Papa John's who have an estimated three million dollar plus expectation within in the FIRST YEAR of being franchised for individuals who are playing the fucking poor card and threatening to fire people. Those people are vicious, disgusting assholes with unreal profit margins. You have fifty plus employees, you're probably not Gepetto in his fucking workshop. If those people cheap out and screw their employees over, it's because they're bags of shit and should be held accountable for that.

  10. #35
    NOT SAME CAT Fleta's Avatar
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    How much does it cost employers to insure a person for a month?

    ...anyone?

  11. #36
    Moderator bowieluva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fleta View Post
    The insurance and pharmaceutical companies are all fine and well, but do you know how much it costs just to have an ambulance show up, even if they don't take you anywhere? I know MRI machines and shit are expensive, but seriously... I lost consciousness and hit my head a few months ago. I ended up with some stitches and no answers after staying overnight in the hospital. And received over $27,000 in bills, along with recommendations for follow-up with the neurologists. The pills were cheap. The ambulance, the room, the MRIs, and most of all the "physicians fees" are what blew my mind. Without insurance, I would be filing. Fuck, I can't even afford the $300/month they are demanding FOR MY COPAYMENTS. I'm going to get sent to collections for fucking copayments.
    I don't know if I follow your point. If you weren't insured, they would have escorted you to die outside of the hospital. Yes, the government should absolutely be cracking down in this bullshit, but the solution is not to revert to the old, even worse system.

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  13. #38
    NOT SAME CAT Fleta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    I don't know if I follow your point. If you weren't insured, they would have escorted you to die outside of the hospital. Yes, the government should absolutely be cracking down in this bullshit, but the solution is not to revert to the old, even worse system.
    Horseshit, they would have given me stitches and painkillers and sent me on my merry way instead of running every test under the fucking sun (to ultimately shrug and say wellIdunno) in order to rape my insurance.

    Not trying to bitchy in your direction, sorry, I just get super pissy about the un-fucking-believable cost to get sick or get an owie. So they rape the insurance companies to make up for people who can't afford to pay the bills from having a fourth kid they can't support. Endless. Fucking. Cycle.

    I hate the world.

  14. #39
    Moderator bowieluva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fleta View Post
    Horseshit, they would have given me stitches and painkillers and sent me on my merry way instead of running every test under the fucking sun (to ultimately shrug and say wellIdunno) in order to rape my insurance.

    Not trying to bitchy in your direction, sorry, I just get super pissy about the un-fucking-believable cost to get sick or get an owie. So they rape the insurance companies to make up for people who can't afford to pay the bills from having a fourth kid they can't support. Endless. Fucking. Cycle.

    I hate the world.
    They don't rape the insurance companies. The insurance companies are right behind them and getting kickbacks every step of the way. This is just a step in a direction towards making sure people actually get proper medical care, which they decidedly DON'T in this country.

    We rank somewhere alongside third world countries.

    Maybe some day we will have another president with balls who will take on the trusts and bust up monopolies.

  15. #40
    NOT SAME CAT Fleta's Avatar
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    I like lamp. So $6000 a year for each employee, give or take? Yeah... in an industry with astoundingly unpredictable profit and loss. I think my employer has given me a very different perspective, that doesn't apply to the majority of businesses out there. I know this sucks for our employees, who were always provided excellent benefits in the past (after the obligatory waiting period to weed out those who wouldn't last), but can no longer be afforded. Again, I'm guessing this is the exception.

  16. #41
    Moderator bowieluva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fleta View Post
    I like lamp. So $6000 a year for each employee, give or take? Yeah... in an industry with astoundingly unpredictable profit and loss. I think my employer has given me a very different perspective, that doesn't apply to the majority of businesses out there. I know this sucks for our employees, who were always provided excellent benefits in the past (after the obligatory waiting period to weed out those who wouldn't last), but can no longer be afforded. Again, I'm guessing this is the exception.
    Let's put it this way: when I was in NYC, my friend Eden was saying that the local bodega sells illegal cigarettes and basically has a 5 grand fine allotment they have put aside in preparation. That's how business works. If there's a little shitty bodega going 'fuck it' to a $5 grand fine, I guarantee that $6 grand may sound like a lot to us and isn't for the average business with 50 employees. That is not a small business. Even the average restaurant employees maybe 20 if they're really successful. We're not talking financial underdogs here.

  17. #42
    Moderator nestlequikie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fleta View Post
    Horseshit, they would have given me stitches and painkillers and sent me on my merry way instead of running every test under the fucking sun (to ultimately shrug and say wellIdunno) in order to rape my insurance.

    Not trying to bitchy in your direction, sorry, I just get super pissy about the un-fucking-believable cost to get sick or get an owie. So they rape the insurance companies to make up for people who can't afford to pay the bills from having a fourth kid they can't support. Endless. Fucking. Cycle.

    I hate the world.
    The excess of medical testing is more a product of fear of liability due to malpractice, IMO. Everyone is scared of being sued.
    I hope that when the world comes to an end, I can breathe a sigh of relief, because there will be so much to look forward to. - Donnie Darko

  18. #43
    Moderator bowieluva's Avatar
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    It's funny because my boyfriend basically had to come into his doctor's with bombs strapped to him to get then to agree to an MRI.

  19. #44
    Moderator nestlequikie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    It's funny because my boyfriend basically had to come into his doctor's with bombs strapped to him to get then to agree to an MRI.
    Some doctors get money back from insurance companies (mostly PPO and HMO types of insurance that have Primary Care Managers) for *not* running too many tests or procedures. It is so odd that it is. like that.
    I have had so many MRIs, CAT Scans and even one PET Scan in the last 18 months that I should freaking glow in the dark. I am grateful to have such good coverage and sad when I see that so many people aren't as fortunate.
    I hope that when the world comes to an end, I can breathe a sigh of relief, because there will be so much to look forward to. - Donnie Darko

  20. #45
    Moderator bowieluva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nestlequikie View Post
    Some doctors get money back from insurance companies (mostly PPO and HMO types of insurance that have Primary Care Managers) for *not* running too many tests or procedures. It is so odd how that is.

    I have had so many MRIs, CAT Scans and even one PET Scan in the last 18 months that I should freaking glow in the dark. I am grateful to have such good coverage and sad when I see that so many people aren't as fortunate.
    I have excellent coverage, because I am fortunate and my mom pays for it. I have a lot of friends who weren't able to get any coverage because they had pre-existing health conditions. If I didn't have insurance via my mom, with my health history, prior to Obamacare, I would get vetoed by everyone. And I have to have procedures done every three months and I'm on constant medication.

    I have what is relatively high for a copay compared to Kaiser. $45 per visit. My medical bills are virtually free and I get blood tested and urine samples and etc. every three months.

  21. #46
    Senior Member puzzld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nestlequikie View Post
    The excess of medical testing is more a product of fear of liability due to malpractice, IMO. Everyone is scared of being sued.
    And you can always say no. You don't have to let them run every test under the fracking sun, just cause your insurance is paying.
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    lol at Nestle being some vicious smiter, she's the nicest person on this site besides probably puzzld. Or at least the last person to resort to smiting.
    Quote Originally Posted by nestlequikie View Post
    Why on earth would I smite you when I can ban you?

  22. #47
    fun hater Shins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    I have excellent coverage, because I am fortunate and my mom pays for it. I have a lot of friends who weren't able to get any coverage because they had pre-existing health conditions. If I didn't have insurance via my mom, with my health history, prior to Obamacare, I would get vetoed by everyone. And I have to have procedures done every three months and I'm on constant medication.

    I have what is relatively high for a copay compared to Kaiser. $45 per visit. My medical bills are virtually free and I get blood tested and urine samples and etc. every three months.
    When I was out of highschool I got booted from my moms coverage because I was working and only a part time student. I was making $10/hr and not living at home. The only insurance I could find worth having was $150/mo because of where I live and how much I drive (supposedly); I registered with no pre-existings and a non-smoker... Well, I tried but I couldn't afford that and I didn't have insurance again until a couple years ago.

    I was lucky that I only needed one trip to the ER when I was insurance-less (when I had kidney stones for the first time and thought my appendix burst or something..) They did an MRI to make sure the stones weren't too big, gave me some pain pills and sent me home. I got a bill later for almost $3k.
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    Listen, if no one cares when a crazy noodle walks in and executes children with a gun, no one cares about anything.

  23. #48
    NOT SAME CAT Fleta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by puzzld View Post
    And you can always say no. You don't have to let them run every test under the fracking sun, just cause your insurance is paying.
    I was unconscious. They didn't exactly ask my permission. Thanks.

  24. #49
    Certified Grumple Bottoms Ron_NYC's Avatar
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    I've gone to the hospital as Ron Justice, Ron Downey Jr., and Ron Liberty, in the past. So I'm not really sure what the bills look like, but I hear they're high.
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    Ron was the best part, hands down.

  25. #50
    Senior Member puzzld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fleta View Post
    I was unconscious. They didn't exactly ask my permission. Thanks.
    Well, then they probably had good reason to run the tests eh? Can't hardly throw you out in the alley until you come to.

    My point is, a lot of times there are things patients can do to lower their cost. Maybe not in you case, but in many. Don't get me wrong. There's lots of things the medical establishment needs to fix. The $10 aspirin on up to thousands of dollars for unneeded tests, but don't feel sorry for the insurance companies in all this. They are getting handed millions of new customers, many of whom will be pure profit for them. The extra burden they place on doctors who have to jump through hoops to get test authorized costs millions. So yeah they are a big part of the problem. Bottom line? I wanted real reform, but the ACA is a step in the right direction. I hope.
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    lol at Nestle being some vicious smiter, she's the nicest person on this site besides probably puzzld. Or at least the last person to resort to smiting.
    Quote Originally Posted by nestlequikie View Post
    Why on earth would I smite you when I can ban you?

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