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Thread: THAT'S RACIST! Part 2: discussing racial tension in the US/abroad

  1. #301
    Senior Member *crickets*'s Avatar
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    Paula Deen race discrimination case dismissed
    August 12, 2013, 6:45 p.m.

    Lisa Jackson, the woman suing maligned Southern cook Paula Deen for racial discrimination and sexual harassment, has no standing as a victim of race, according to the federal judge overseeing her suit.

    Jackson is white and was not directly discriminated or professionally harmed by her relations with black employees. Therefore, the former employee can't claim to be a victim of racial discrimination targeting African American workers, U.S. District Judge William T. Moore Jr. wrote in his ruling.

    Moore threw out Jackson?s discrimination complaint Monday but kept intact her sexual harassment claim. "At best, plaintiff is an accidental victim of the alleged racial discrimination," Moore wrote. "Her difficulties do not fall within the zone of interests sought to be protected by Title VII."
    http://www.latimes.com/features/food...,7624365.story

    So, the woman who filed the lawsuit is white? I did not know that. I'm...confused.

  2. #302
    Certified Grumple Bottoms Ron_NYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by *crickets* View Post
    Paula Deen race discrimination case dismissed
    http://www.latimes.com/features/food...,7624365.story

    So, the woman who filed the lawsuit is white? I did not know that. I'm...confused.
    White people can't be offended by racism?

    If it weren't for Jewish folks getting involved in the movement, the Civil Rights Movement never would have started. Hell, half the people that started the NAACP weren't even colored people. If 100% of white folks thought that blacks were inferior and only here for labor, slavery would still be in effect.
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  3. #303
    Moderator puzzld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron_NYC View Post
    White people can't be offended by racism?

    If it weren't for Jewish folks getting involved in the movement, the Civil Rights Movement never would have started. Hell, half the people that started the NAACP weren't even colored people. If 100% of white folks thought that blacks were inferior and only here for labor, slavery would still be in effect.
    White people can be offended. But they aren't a "protected class." Yet. Any member of a minority race is "protected" against discrimination based on race. The aged are protected against age discrimination... a 22 year old can't sue because he didn't get the job because the employer is biased against the young, even if the employer admits it, because youth is not a "protected" class. The disabled are "protected" but no one has ever totally pinned down what that means. You are "protected" if you have a disability that hinders a "major life activity" So blind? yes. Deaf? yes. Arthritis? ummm maybe. Erectile dysfunction? Welll are you a porn star?

    So offended. Yes. Able to sue because of discrimination. Na uh. That's what makes the case on the rez so interesting to me. Was someone discriminated against. Probably. Could he sue and win? Great question. The white guy was definitely the loser here. He's been hounded out of his job and his home... He's definitely the minority in this place. So is he "protected?" Can he at least recover damages? Moving expenses? Should he?
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  4. #304
    Moderator bowieluva's Avatar
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    In the Paula Deen case, I think the idea was that in the south, people would take a white person being offended by racism more seriously than some dirt poor negro. Like, if it was so bad and unfair and cruel that Joe Blow over here was clutching his pearls, you know something must be done.

  5. #305
    Senior Member animosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron_NYC View Post
    White people can't be offended by racism?

    If it weren't for Jewish folks getting involved in the movement, the Civil Rights Movement never would have started. Hell, half the people that started the NAACP weren't even colored people. If 100% of white folks thought that blacks were inferior and only here for labor, slavery would still be in effect.
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    In the Paula Deen case, I think the idea was that in the south, people would take a white person being offended by racism more seriously than some dirt poor negro. Like, if it was so bad and unfair and cruel that Joe Blow over here was clutching his pearls, you know something must be done.
    yeah, i was thinking her lawsuit was a brilliant piece of work. basically filing on behalf of the injustices you see that bother you at work every day. i would feel very uncomfortable going into a work environment that was discriminatory towards my co-workers based on a protected category. racism doesn't just affect people of color and it's not fair that a white woman would be expected to deal with it simply because she's white. what if she had black children or a mexican sister?

    i suppose she could have framed it as a 'hostile work environment' instead, but the point is lost with that wording.

    i hate that the civil rights movement may need more out-spoken advocacy by white people to move it along, but that seems to be the case. sometimes the need for change is more likely to be acknowledge coming from someone you identify with.
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  6. #306
    Cousin Greg Angiebla's Avatar
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    When I went through cosmetology school a lady who worked for a really prestigious salon came one day to recruit new future employees. I had no interest in working for her company, but my friend (who was black) did. I told the lady no thank you, but you may want to talk to my friend. She took one look at her and said no we aren't interested in her, you are more our cup of tea. I said well you are missing out on a good employee by not hiring her, and I would never want to work for a racist employer.

    "The love for all living creatures is the most noble attribute of man" -Charles Darwin

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  7. #307
    Lionfish Whisperer PCP777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angiebla View Post
    When I went through cosmetology school a lady who worked for a really prestigious salon came one day to recruit new future employees. I had no interest in working for her company, but my friend (who was black) did. I told the lady no thank you, but you may want to talk to my friend. She took one look at her and said no we aren't interested in her, you are more our cup of tea. I said well you are missing out on a good employee by not hiring her, and I would never want to work for a racist employer.
    Maybe you were just like way hotter than her? Which would be beauty racism. NM.

  8. #308
    Cousin Greg Angiebla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCP777 View Post
    Maybe you were just like way hotter than her? Which would be beauty racism. NM.
    No I don't think that was the case. For one thing Im not even hot, and another thing I had heard that they didn't hire black people way before this incident even occurred. I'm not the kind of person who calls a person racist, especially to their face if I have any doubts they aren't one.

    "The love for all living creatures is the most noble attribute of man" -Charles Darwin

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    IMO the lawyer who took the white lady's case against Paula Deen wasn't listening or didn't have their coffee or something. In cases about sexual harassment in the workplace, the claimant doesn't have to be the person who was harassed - they just had to witness it and feel uncomfortable themselves. That's the guideline for sexual harassment, if the claimant feels wronged. For example, if the boss is always favoring the pretty girl he paws all the time with promotions, etc. - that is sexual harassment or discrimination. Racial discrimination has different guidelines.

    Speaking about racial discrimination against whites, after 50 years, they are considering ending "Affirmative Action."
    http://www.infoplease.com/spot/affirmative1.html

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    Certified Grumple Bottoms Ron_NYC's Avatar
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    http://gothamist.com/2013/08/13/six_...made_by_bl.php


    Six Bogus Things NYC Mayor Bloomberg Said About Stop & Frisk





    Yesterday Mayor Bloomberg, NYPD Commissioner Ray Kelly, and Corporation Counsel Michael Cardozo gathered at City Hall to excoriate the recent federal decision ruling the NYPD's stop-and-frisk policy unconstitutional. In addition to making a slew of ad hominem attacks against the judge in the case, complaining of bias, and pledging to appeal the decision, Mayor Bloomberg made a string of observations that struck us as misleading, irreverent, or downright false. When a mayoral aide holding the microphone blushed at Mayor Bloomberg's unnecessary disparagement of a reporter who asked a legitimate question, the City blushed with him.

    The mayor's comments are in italics.

    1) It's The Constitution, Stupid

    "Throughout the trial that just concluded, the judge made it clear she was not at all interested in the crime reductions here or how we achieved them. In fact, nowhere in her 195-page decision does she mention the historic cuts in crime or the number of lives that have been saved."

    As Michael Powell points out, Judge Scheindlin mentions the importance of a safer New York in the very first sentence of her opinion. But "historic cuts in crime" aren't supposed to factor in to her decision, because it is based on whether or not the policy, as practiced by the NYPD, violates the Constitution. On Page 2 of her opinion, Judge Scheindlin writes,

    "I emphasize at the outset, as I have throughout the litigation, that this case is not about the effectiveness of stop and frisk in deterring or combating crime. This Court's mandate is solely to judge the constitutionality of police behavior, not its effectiveness as a law enforcement tool. Many police practices may be useful for fighting crime-preventive detention or coerced confessions, for example-but because they are unconstitutional they cannot be used, no matter how effective. [Emphasis ours]

    2) Stop & Frisk Would Have Been Fine, If It Weren't For Those Meddling "Advocates"

    "But one small group of advocates-and one judge-conducted their own investigation. And it was pretty clear from the start which way it would turn out."

    To say that the only people who have fundamental problems with the NYPD's use of stop-and-frisk are the "small" group of advocates and plaintiffs who filed this case is obviously false.

    Arguably the first person to conduct a major investigation of the NYPD's stop-and-frisk practices was Attorney General Eliot Spitzer in 1999 [PDF], a report that the NYPD's top uniformed officer admitted at trial that he didn't bother to read. Judge Scheindlin quotes the report in her ruling:

    The investigation was prompted in part by the Attorney General?s finding that despite a decade of falling crime rates, "the climate in many of New York's minority neighborhoods . . . was one of resentment and distrust of the NYPD." Many of the complaints involved "lower-level police involvement in the everyday lives of minority residents," such as stop and frisk encounters.

    Sound familiar?

    3) NYPD Oversight Will Force Police Officers To Perform "Who's On First?" Routine With Fatal Results

    "We have enough problems now. When you're a police officer you have to know what orders to follow. If somebody pulls a gun and you want to get home to your family, you don't have time to say, 'Now wait a second, the Commissioner said one thing, the monitor said another, and the IG said another.' By that time, you're dead. And I'd like to see you go to the funeral and explain to the family why their son or husband or father is not coming home."

    The Inspector General, as described in legislation passed by the City Council last month, would not have any authority over the NYPD, only the power to study its policies and make recommendations, which would presumably be considered and accepted by the department. The sole job of the federal monitor appointed in this case is to ensure that the NYPD is following the judge's orders in implementing changes to stop-and-frisk training.

    But all of the mayor's blatant mischaracterizations are besides the point: if an officer has a gun pointed at them, the officer presumably pulls their own weapon, and, if necessary, fires it. This happened just last weekend. What does any of this have to do with the stop-and-frisk ruling?

    4) Cameras, Cameras, Everywhere, Except On A Police Officer's Chest

    "We can't have your cameraman follow you around and film things without people questioning whether they deliberately chose an angle...It would be a nightmare. Cameras don't exactly work that way-a camera on the lapel or the hat of the police officer, they'll say 'He's turning the right way, or he didn't turn the right way, my God he deliberately did it.' It's a solution that's not a solution to the problem."

    When half of the 54 uniformed officers in Rialto, California began wearing body cameras, the department saw an 88% drop in the number of complaints filed against officers. Video cameras helped Ray Kelly explain why the aforementioned shooting of an armed suspect last weekend was justified. Cameras protect the officers wearing them as much as the public they serve, which is why the judge ordered the NYPD to begin a 12-month pilot program for cameras at the precinct with the highest number of stops in each borough.

    5) Enormous Amounts Of Police Stops Keep Us Safe, Except When We Don't Need Them To Anymore

    "One of the reasons [stop numbers are] lower now, is that we have less crime. We have fewer reports of a group of kids that may have just committed a crime because that crime didn't take place. Why? It's a circular thing. You want to keep it going. The greatest thing in the world would be if we never recovered a gun and we never had a crime. Wouldn't that be wonderful? Not bad. It would be a good thing."

    Neither the mayor nor the police commissioner had a good answer for the dubious relationship between crime reports and vast numbers of police stops. Crime didn't increase by 325% from 2003 to 2011, but stop-and-frisks did. Since then, stops, and crime, have continued to fall significantly.

    6) New York City Is Safe For Business

    "We go to where the reports of crime are, and those unfortunately happen to be poor neighborhoods and minority neighborhoods-that is also incidentally where we target our social services to address the problems. But they're different things: one is a long-term thing the other is keeping us safe and keeping this city so that we have a tax base. That's where the money comes from when you try and do something about a great societal problem."

    Indeed, the "luxury product" must be protected. If you have to crack a few civil liberties to make a gilded omelette, so be it.
    Last edited by Ron_NYC; 08-13-2013 at 03:59 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    Ron was the best part, hands down.

  11. #311
    Certified Grumple Bottoms Ron_NYC's Avatar
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    Holy shit, this is fucking INSANE!


    http://gothamist.com/2013/08/13/ny_p...robably_sh.php





    NY Post's Stop & Frisk "Police Sources" Probably Shouldn't Be Cops

    It's no surprise that the New York Post's editorial on yesterday's federal stop-and-frisk ruling is a tired tapestry of falsities and angry spit-flecks. But this Post report on the NYPD's reaction, featuring several unnamed "police sources," is staggering in its disregard of reality.

    “Welcome to Chicago,” said a veteran Bronx police officer, who believes cops will become overly cautious about stopping suspects and let criminals slip through their grasp.

    “If that’s what the judge wants, crime’s going to go up,’’ the Bronx cop said.
    “It would be real difficult to go after someone that you suspect for doing a crime” with the new ruling.

    He said the ruling will even discourage some officers from trying to solve reported crimes.
    “It sounds like all that cops are going to do now if someone is robbed, mugged or shot is take a report, and that’s it,” he feared.

    “He’s not going to be able to look for the person who did it,’’ in contrast to the police tactic of hunting for perps through stop-and-frisks, the source said.

    Cop 1: Hey, did you hear about that federal stop-and-frisk ruling?

    Cop 2: You mean the one that's narrowly tailored to bolster our record-keeping practices and training, and requires officers of a precinct in each borough with the highest number of stops to wear body-mounted cameras for 12 months? The one that allows us to use stop-and-frisk under the supervision of a monitor, a former Manhattan prosecutor who will function like the city's other numerous monitors have in the past?

    Cop 1: Yeah.

    Cop 2: What do you think of it?

    Criminal: Don't mind me, guys, I'm just going to rob this lemonade stand at knifepoint. Oh, nice shoes—I love Rockports. Can I have them?

    Cop 1: Sure. [Takes off shoes]

    One police source said the idea of adding yet another layer of oversight to the NYPD in the form of a court monitor is not only bureaucracy at its worst but a big waste of taxpayer money, too.

    “Look, we have Internal Affairs. Every command has an integrity-control officer. Every division and every bureau has an inspections unit. There’s also quality assurance. [And] don’t forget [the Civilian Complaint Review Board],’’ the source said. “You’ve never seen a more monitored entity than the NYPD.”

    A recent audit of the NYPD showed a serious "lack of accountability" within the department's Quality Assurance Division. The CCRB's recommended punishments for officers who have substantiated claims of abuse against them are routinely tossed out. Give that the mayor has ceded total control to the Commissioner, the NYPD has no independent oversight.

    "A big waste of taxpayer money" is the hundreds of millions of dollars the City pays out in NYPD-related settlements each year, not to mention the taxpayer-funded salaries of the City attorneys who are tasked with litigating bad cases.

    The Post's article, which was co-written by the tabloid's police bureau chief, doesn't frighten us with the prospect of what New York will become after this ruling, but what kind of town we'd live in if these police sources were the norm.

    Maybe they could run for mayor.
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    Ron was the best part, hands down.

  12. #312
    Chin Checker g r ee n ey e s's Avatar
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    Thank god. That shit is criminal.


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    Certified Grumple Bottoms Ron_NYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    Ron was the best part, hands down.

  14. #314
    Senior Member *crickets*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron_NYC View Post
    White people can't be offended by racism?

    If it weren't for Jewish folks getting involved in the movement, the Civil Rights Movement never would have started. Hell, half the people that started the NAACP weren't even colored people. If 100% of white folks thought that blacks were inferior and only here for labor, slavery would still be in effect.
    The lawsuit claimed the woman was a victim of discrimination under Title VII, which is the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which protects individuals from employment discrimination on the basis of race, color, national origin, gender or religion. That is what I was confused about. The case was not about an employee being offended by racism.

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    Certified Grumple Bottoms Ron_NYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by *crickets* View Post
    The lawsuit claimed the woman was a victim of discrimination under Title VII, which is the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which protects individuals from employment discrimination on the basis of race, color, national origin, gender or religion. That is what I was confused about. The case was not about an employee being offended by racism.
    And her lawyer didn't know this?
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    Ron was the best part, hands down.

  16. #316
    Moderator bowieluva's Avatar
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    Yeah, I think the woman had good intentions and didn't want to seem like she was blackmailing Deen or something, or just trying to get in the media, but the law isn't applicable to her case at all.

  17. #317
    XoXo Miller22's Avatar
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    The article I read stated the woman claimed to be offended as she had 2 nieces who were part black. Investigators in the case found she only had 1 niece, who was part Hispanic.

    Regardless of law application, this woman was successful in bringing down Deen's career via the suit, as just the right questions were asked in depositions.

  18. #318
    Senior Member *crickets*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron_NYC View Post
    And her lawyer didn't know this?
    Apparently not...
    From the 190+ page ruling:
    Jackson is white and was not directly discriminated or professionally harmed by her relations with black employees. Therefore, the former employee can't claim to be a victim of racial discrimination targeting African American workers, U.S. District Judge William T. Moore Jr. wrote in his ruling.

    Moore threw out Jackson?s discrimination complaint Monday but kept intact her sexual harassment claim. "At best, plaintiff is an accidental victim of the alleged racial discrimination," Moore wrote. "Her difficulties do not fall within the zone of interests sought to be protected by Title VII."

  19. #319
    Certified Grumple Bottoms Ron_NYC's Avatar
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    I think 'oh right' is on this panel.
    http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tu...013/the-r-word



    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    Ron was the best part, hands down.

  20. #320
    Senior Member *crickets*'s Avatar
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    I'm sorry, but this whole "I was a victim of RACISM because that clerk REFUSED to show me the $38,000 BAG I wanted to buy!" thing by Oprah Winfrey cracks me the fuck up. Really, Oprah? REALLY??
    Bitch, you ain't exactly Rosa Parks on the bus. GET OVER YOURSELF.
    LOS ANGELES (AP) Oprah Winfrey says she's "sorry" about the media coverage that emerged after she said she experienced racism during a trip to Switzerland.

    "I think that incident in Switzerland was just an incident in Switzerland. I'm really sorry that it got blown up. I purposefully did not mention the name of the store. I'm sorry that I said it was Switzerland," Winfrey said Monday night at the Los Angeles premiere of "Lee Daniels: The Butler."

    In a recent interview with 'Entertainment Tonight,' Winfrey recalled a clerk at an upscale Zurich boutique refusing to show her a handbag. Winfrey said she was told she could not afford the $38,000 purse.

    "I'm in a store, and the person doesn't obviously know that I carry the black card, and so they make an assessment based upon the way I look and who I am," said Winfrey, who earned $77 million in the year ending in June, according to Forbes magazine.
    The best part is that she's talking about this at the premiere of her new movie: "The Butler," which opens Friday, documenting the civil rights movement through the story of a butler who served in the White House for seven presidents.

    And the "Black card" she's talking about? I assumed that was like '"the race card" but no...it's an actual thing, a super exclusive invitation-only American Express card, for the very rich. It's made of black titanium and has an annual fee of $5,000. People use it to buy Lamborghinis and charter jets.

    And the $38,000 bag? this is it:



    Seriously, Oprah was ready to pay thirty-eight thousand fucking dollars for that^^^
    It looks like something you'd see in a GD Walmart.
    Last edited by *crickets*; 08-14-2013 at 08:08 PM.

  21. #321
    sucks to your ass-mar Nancy Drew's Avatar
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    The girl said she barely spoke English and she asked Oprah if she wanted to look at the bag, and Oprah said no.
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    oMG, yeah, no, AMY is in no way superior to Tara. Never.

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    Senior Member debk589's Avatar
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  23. #323
    Senior Member of_corpse_not's Avatar
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  24. #324
    Senior Member kevansvault's Avatar
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    Holy shit that is just wrong!
    Don't like what I have to say? I respect that. Go fuck yourself.

  25. #325
    Cousin Greg Angiebla's Avatar
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    Math IS hard though

    "The love for all living creatures is the most noble attribute of man" -Charles Darwin

    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    Chelsea, if you are a ghost and reading mds, I command you to walk into the light.

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