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Thread: The Death Penalty in action - issues updates and the ongoing debate

  1. #76
    Certified Grumple Bottoms Ron_NYC's Avatar
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    I shouldn't return to threads when I am so far behind.
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  2. #77
    Senior Member animosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron_NYC View Post
    Racists (aka right-wingers) use this as their argument to say that blacks are 10% of the population but 100% of the problem.
    ha ha, but no. i meant 70% of those exonerated were of people of color. ya dig?
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    Quote Originally Posted by neenerneener View Post
    if people want to watch the executions, then they have to deal with how gory they are. BRING BACK THE CHAIR.

    as far as the propofol thing goes, i think they're talking about the potassium, not propofol. potassium burns like a motherfucker when it hits your veins. and i have no sympathy for that shit. they should feel some pain on their way out.

    firing squads? meh. i mean, one shot at the head or heart, and they're done. its not enough.
    This article stated propofol: http://www.politicususa.com/2013/07/...e-inmates.html

    I was just reading another article where it said that the electric chair looks worse than what the inmate actually experiences. Like less than a few seconds before they are unconscious.

    What about the guillotine? Seems like a sure fire way to get the job done and the psychological trauma to the inmate of hearing that blade come rushing down would def be traumatizing (only for a second tho).

    This is where I am so lost because as much terrible things that a person may have done to get to that death row point, how far do we go in them being given a certain amount of pain?

    Like what about a system that says with certain crimes, you get the electric chair. With other crimes you get the guillotine. With another kind of crime you get hanged.

    Im still stuck on what if they were innocent?

  4. #79
    Certified Grumple Bottoms Ron_NYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by animosity View Post
    ha ha, but no. i meant 70% of those exonerated were of people of color. ya dig?
    My statement stands. That's who gets locked up in the first place.
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
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    Moderator nestlequikie's Avatar
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    This blog is about Texas' execution and the 'last words' the prisoners say before they are put to death: lostwordsinthechamber.blogspot.com

    Utterly haunting.

    Warning: Don't start reading the blog unless you plan to spend a lot of time there. A lot, a lot.
    I hope that when the world comes to an end, I can breathe a sigh of relief, because there will be so much to look forward to. - Donnie Darko

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    Actually in hangings they say that depending on the drop length and the type of knot used, it may not severe the neck bones and will just cause asphyxiation. It *can* take a little more time than what most people realize.

    There was a study done with an inmate who agreed to kind of 'research' the pain part of the gas chamber and he was to use blinking as a way of letting the executioners know how painful it was and apparently it was pretty painful and lasted upwards of 20 mins.
    I also read that inmates are often given some kind of tranquilizer or med to keep them calm before they die.
    My son was telling me that he thinks that victims families should be able to be the deciding factor on what method is used. I think he might be onto something.

  7. #82
    Senior Member animosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nestlequikie View Post
    This blog is about Texas' execution and the 'last words' the prisoners say before they are put to death: lostwordsinthechamber.blogspot.com

    Utterly haunting.

    Warning: Don't start reading the blog unless you plan to spend a lot of time there. A lot, a lot.
    i'll have to add it to my reading list. i got too much lost today already!
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    Since race is ALWAYS going to be an issue, it is hard to read about a black woman being condemned by a jury of all white people. They could all be totally non racist but with our history, I wonder just how much a persons color weighed in on their guilty verdict.

    I think it should always be a mixed race jury and I guess Im really questioning my feelings on the death penalty more than I ever did before.

    This thread is making me think a lot about my stance on things and Im trying to look at it from an inmates pov as well as the victim's familie's pov. It's not as clear cut as I wished it was.

  9. #84
    XoXo Miller22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by White trash bitchy blonde View Post
    Isnt there some kind of site out there that tells you about what most inmates go thru before execution? Like they talk about if they showered, if they ordered something in particular for their last meal, a religious figure, any meetings with victim's families?

    That's a big one. I wonder if any inmate ever wanted to meet their victims's families and are the victim's families always allowed to be in the room to view the execution?
    http://deadmaneating.blogspot.com/

    It hasn't been updated in several years, but it's an interesting read nonetheless!

  10. #85
    Senior Member Cap-n Meow's Avatar
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    I don't know how on topic this is, but when we're speaking of death penalty you have to consider the the corrections facilities too. I think my biggest complaint on corrections is the private company prisons. There are companies that profit from prisons. That also means that there are lobbyists that keep politicians in their checkbook. So the politicians are corrupted to keep laws that imprison many people for a long time.

    Which isn't this kind of like slavery if someone can profit off of keeping people confined?

    Prisons should not be about the prison mentality and making it harder for people to get back into society. They should be about rehabilitation.

    Though because I find it hard to believe you can rehabilitate everyone, there will always be a special place for murderers and pedophiles.

  11. #86
    Senior Member animosity's Avatar
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    i honestly think it's hard to rehabilitate anyone! there are some programs in prison geared towards rehab and programs on the outside that work in conjunction with the prisons for further assistance, but from my experience - prisoners seldom make it to the follow-ups.

    in california we have an early release program called prop 36 which allows some prisoners (i don't know the criteria) to cut their sentences if they go directly to the rehab program when they get out. i don't know how many prisoners have told me that they plan to get 'high as fuck' as soon as they're released before checking in.

    i also noticed that a huge portion of crimes stem from addiction. robbery, car theft, fraud, etc... people do bad shit when they need to get high. courts only acknowledge the crime, not the addiction and so provide little help to the addicts who end up in the same place, but worse off once they're released.

    when you look at pedos and people who kill just for the fuck of it, their crimes are rarely motivated by addiction. if you can't rehabilitate people who commit crimes because of drugs, how you even going to begin to rehab a person who does bad shit because it's a part of them to do those things?

    i haven't looked into the whole prisoners for hire thing - is that what you're talking about? because on the surface, those look like great programs to me. they give a prisoner something to do, teach them skills and give them practical experience for when they get into the real world. i know the trustees were always volunteers, not forced, and they seemed to like having their responsibilities.




    ETA: AA/NA programs have a mere 10% success rate for people who seek assistance on their own! it's probably way lower for people who are forced into treatment. drugs suck.
    Last edited by animosity; 07-12-2013 at 12:43 PM.
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  12. #87
    Senior Member Cap-n Meow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by animosity View Post
    i honestly think it's hard to rehabilitate anyone! there are some programs in prison geared towards rehab and programs on the outside that work in conjunction with the prisons for further assistance, but from my experience - prisoners seldom make it to the follow-ups.

    in california we have an early release program called prop 36 which allows some prisoners (i don't know the criteria) to cut their sentences if they go directly to the rehab program when they get out. i don't know how many prisoners have told me that they plan to get 'high as fuck' as soon as they're released before checking in.

    i also noticed that a huge portion of crimes stem from addiction. robbery, car theft, fraud, etc... people do bad shit when they need to get high. courts only acknowledge the crime, not the addiction and so provide little help to the addicts who end up in the same place, but worse off once they're released.

    when you look at pedos and people who kill just for the fuck of it, their crimes are rarely motivated by addiction. if you can't rehabilitate people who commit crimes because of drugs, how you even going to begin to rehab a person who does bad shit because it's a part of them to do those things?

    i haven't looked into the whole prisoners for hire thing - is that what you're talking about? because on the surface, those look like great programs to me. they give a prisoner something to do, teach them skills and give them practical experience for when they get into the real world. i know the trustees were always volunteers, not forced, and they seemed to like having their responsibilities.
    No, not prisoners for hire. I'm talking about companies that only have the reason for existing because they run a private prison system or also known as privatized corrections. GEO group and Correctional Services Corporation are two of the most well known. As far as I'm concerned no one should make money off the imprisonment of people.

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    Certified Grumple Bottoms Ron_NYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cap-n Meow View Post
    No, not prisoners for hire. I'm talking about companies that only have the reason for existing because they run a private prison system or also known as privatized corrections. GEO group and Correctional Services Corporation are two of the most well known. As far as I'm concerned no one should make money off the imprisonment of people.
    Yea, basically there's money in arresting people, Ani. Think about that for a sec.
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    Ron was the best part, hands down.

  14. #89
    Senior Member animosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron_NYC View Post
    Yea, basically there's money in arresting people, Ani. Think about that for a sec.
    say it ain't so!



    Quote Originally Posted by Cap-n Meow View Post
    No, not prisoners for hire. I'm talking about companies that only have the reason for existing because they run a private prison system or also known as privatized corrections. GEO group and Correctional Services Corporation are two of the most well known. As far as I'm concerned no one should make money off the imprisonment of people.
    actually, i don't know anything about this. i've heard whispers, but nothing solid.
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    "Say, you know who could handle this penis? MY MOTHER."

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    Senior Member Cap-n Meow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by animosity View Post
    say it ain't so!





    actually, i don't know anything about this. i've heard whispers, but nothing solid.
    GEO Group trades on the New York Stock Exchange. Look up "Private Prisons" and "GEO Group" and you'll find out lots more.

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    Senior Member animosity's Avatar
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    great... more reading. don't you realize i woke up to 15 new pages of trayvon to tackle?

    it's on the list.
    Quote Originally Posted by songbirdsong View Post
    "Say, you know who could handle this penis? MY MOTHER."

  17. #92
    Certified Grumple Bottoms Ron_NYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by animosity View Post
    say it ain't so!





    actually, i don't know anything about this. i've heard whispers, but nothing solid.
    Yep. More bodies in prison means more money for some people. So not only have people made a profit off of healthcare, but from imprisonment. Yay Capitalism!
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    Ron was the best part, hands down.

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    Why can't we make prisoners more helpful in the community under heavy security? Have them out there helping build shit we need?

    I think to some extent some prisoners can be rehabilitated. I don't think pedophilia should be on the criteria but like for someone who had years worth of addiction issues in and out of rehabs and eventually commited a crime bad enough to go to prison? I'm not sure on the numbers but I would think there has to be some people there that can change their life and turn it all the way around with a good support system.

    I think we need to make our inmates more useful to the community. There would be different levels of redemption for some of these people. I think there is even a hospice program where inmates are there for the dying. I think obviously restrictions on things but putting them to work would be useful.

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    Superomnininjamember Monter's Avatar
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    These are the possible executions for July- some may have already been stayed:
    July
    15* Warren Hill Georgia
    16* John Quintanilla, Jr. Texas
    18* Vaughn Ross Texas
    25* Andrew Lackey Alabama----volunteer
    31* Douglas Feldman Texas
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    Senior Member Cap-n Meow's Avatar
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    Andrew Lackey has requested death. He stabbed his 80 year old victim 70 times and shot him. He should get his request.

    That brings another discussion into this. If someone kills another and requests death for their crimes, shouldn't they be allowed that?

  21. #96
    Superomnininjamember Monter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cap-n Meow View Post
    Andrew Lackey has requested death. He stabbed his 80 year old victim 70 times and shot him. He should get his request.

    That brings another discussion into this. If someone kills another and requests death for their crimes, shouldn't they be allowed that?
    Really good point.
    I think it changes the game for sure. But isnt it assisted suicide then?
    You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.- D. Moynihan
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    Senior Member blighted star's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by animosity View Post
    great... more reading. don't you realize i woke up to 15 new pages of trayvon to tackle?

    it's on the list.
    Yaaaaay - have some more!!! We got em too. One group (GEO) does Corrective Services. The other took over our Immigration Detention Centres (& that's gone well, they've moved up from notorious to infamous - so you might want to check your visa's if you come down & stay a while). This is bits from a MUCH longer article -

    http://rightnow.org.au/topics/asylum...20-year-trial/

    Boggo Road Gaol, QLD.

    In Australia, whether the various trials of private prisons in the last 20 years will give way to sweeping privatisation, remain as is, or revert back to full public stewardship is unclear. What are the prospects of private prisons in Australia, and what are the likely implications for prisoners, prison staff, and public safety?

    Square and Round? Public Objective and Private Incentives

    As The Economist reported in 2010, the incentives of private prison companies can easily become opposed to the aims of the humane containment and rehabilitation of prisoners – the very purposes of corrective services.

    The larger the prison population, the longer the sentences, the larger the payout under government contracts; the more prisoners, the more prisons, the more growth. Cheaper facilities and fewer services mean more profit. These inescapable relationships are the source of the potential conflict of interest, a choice between the objectives of corrective services – to “provide a safe, secure and humane custodial environment” and “program interventions to reduce the risk of re-offending” – and those of a maximum profit and growth.

    Snipped

    Community Groups: stopping at the thought and scrutiny

    For some, however, experience isn’t the first word. The very idea of private prisons elicits an intuitive recoil in many because it involves “basically making a profit out of people’s misery.” That’s how Western Australia’s Deaths in Custody Watch Committee (DICWC) spokesperson Marc Newhouse put it, emphasising in the first place an inherent moral concern.

    Moving quickly to practice, he explained that the major issue is public accountability, especially in view of the immunity of private companies to Freedom of Information (FOI) applications. As an example, he pointed to the serious impediments that were encountered in attempting to gain information about the death of an Aboriginal Elder, Mr Ward, who died from heat stroke in the back of a G4S transport vehicle. The cause was faulty air-conditioning; a likelihood about which the government had been repeatedly warned according to former Inspector of Custodial Services, Professor Richard Harding.

    Not getting it right the first time is one thing in complicated circumstances, but –as former Queensland Corrective Services Director-General Keith Hamburger said in a 2009 interview – fulfilling the duty of care that has been outsourced to them “is not rocket science.” Other avoidable oversights have also led to deaths in custody. The failure to replace a 20 cent telephone pin in G4S’s Port Philip prison in mid-2011 meant a 55-year-old man died of an asthma attack. A note was found by his body: “Asthma attack buzzed for help no response.

    Unions: opposition or bettering the bargain?

    Another set of stories relates not the conditions prisoners are subject to, but those staff encounter. Indeed, the single greatest cost of any prison operation is officer wages. Unsurprisingly, then, in the US wages are significantly higher for officers working in public prisons compared to those working in private ones.

    In Australia, the situation differs in different states. In Victoria, as Julian Kennelly of the Victorian Community and Public Sector Union (CPSU) explained, the gap in savings private prisons make over public prisons has closed since the beginnings of privatisation, due to agreements between unions and private prisons on officer pay, conditions and minimum staffing requirements. Over many years of struggle the initial hallmarks of inadequate training of officers and under-staffing have become less acute.

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    Certified Grumple Bottoms Ron_NYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cap-n Meow View Post
    Andrew Lackey has requested death. He stabbed his 80 year old victim 70 times and shot him. He should get his request.

    That brings another discussion into this. If someone kills another and requests death for their crimes, shouldn't they be allowed that?
    Fuck no.
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    Ron was the best part, hands down.

  24. #99
    Senior Member Cap-n Meow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron_NYC View Post
    Fuck no.
    Too easy, right. But if they want to die then they'll figure out a way to get it done eventually. That could lead to a further investigation on how they killed themselves, if anyone assisted them, and may lead to further charges on someone else. Could an inmates family charge the instituation for not protecting that person from doing self harm? Probably a stupid question, but I have no clue.

  25. #100
    Superomnininjamember Monter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cap-n Meow View Post
    Too easy, right. But if they want to die then they'll figure out a way to get it done eventually. That could lead to a further investigation on how they killed themselves, if anyone assisted them, and may lead to further charges on someone else. Could an inmates family charge the instituation for not protecting that person from doing self harm? Probably a stupid question, but I have no clue.
    I think that all "volunteer" really means is that the extensive appeals process is shortened. So they are still ( from my research) executed the same way and all. Wuornos was a volunteer, if I recall correctly.

    There seems to be a lot of controversy on the inmate set to die tonight- lots of evidence of TBI and developmental disabilities of one kind or another. Im not so sure if that should matter ( not that Im pro dp anyway).
    You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.- D. Moynihan
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