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Thread: The Death Penalty in action - issues updates and the ongoing debate

  1. #301
    has supermodel tits neenerneener's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron_NYC
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  2. #302
    Senior Member Sarahric13's Avatar
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    You know what? I wish that my cousin's murderer, who was executed 2 months ago, had some pain.

    As his litigation stopped executions for a while as a result of lethal injection being cruel and unusual, I am glad this happened after his execution.

    In my family's case, her two confessed murderers got off on stabbing, raping, and leaving her to die in a trunk--am I glad the piece of shit is dead? Fuck yeah. Am I bummed that her other murderer may sit on death row for a bit longer, yes. Does that make me a barbarian? I could give two fucks. She was 15. Both guys have lived an additional 20 years. Fuck them. Should hurt.

    RIP Annie, one down...

  3. #303
    Moderator puzzld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarahric13 View Post
    You know what? I wish that my cousin's murderer, who was executed 2 months ago, had some pain.
    I do sympathize. But I guess I don't feel like there is anything that a civilized society can do that is going to atone for what some people do. The best outcome is to keep them from hurting anyone else, and you do that by taking them off the streets. Executing them just hurts more people. The killers family, the executioners, and so on. It just goes on forever.

    But I do understand why you want them to suffer.
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    Senior Member Sarahric13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by puzzld View Post
    I do sympathize. But I guess I don't feel like there is anything that a civilized society can do that is going to atone for what some people do. The best outcome is to keep them from hurting anyone else, and you do that by taking them off the streets. Executing them just hurts more people. The killers family, the executioners, and so on. It just goes on forever.

    But I do understand why you want them to suffer.


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  5. #305
    Superomnininjamember Monter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarahric13 View Post
    You know what? I wish that my cousin's murderer, who was executed 2 months ago, had some pain.

    As his litigation stopped executions for a while as a result of lethal injection being cruel and unusual, I am glad this happened after his execution.

    In my family's case, her two confessed murderers got off on stabbing, raping, and leaving her to die in a trunk--am I glad the piece of shit is dead? Fuck yeah. Am I bummed that her other murderer may sit on death row for a bit longer, yes. Does that make me a barbarian? I could give two fucks. She was 15. Both guys have lived an additional 20 years. Fuck them. Should hurt.

    RIP Annie, one down...
    Ir makes you human
    Im so sorry for your loss...Do you mind if I ask- wazs it Michael Taylor?
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  6. #306
    Moderator bowieluva's Avatar
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    I'm anti death penalty but I don't give a shit about this guy suffering. Ron nailed it, no one in that room was trying to inflict suffering on him. It's like, I'm anti death penalty but I don't care if some prisoner shanked this guy before he ever got to death row.

  7. #307
    Senior Member Sarahric13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monter View Post
    Ir makes you human
    Im so sorry for your loss...Do you mind if I ask- wazs it Michael Taylor?
    Yes it was...thankfully he found Jesus when he was on Death Row...

    I really think that the family should be able to decide cases like this. Anne's parents generally did not engage with the media about this case. I will say that they really have been involved with Parents of Murdered Children, and have turned this tragedy into helping other people. Such a unique group of people--world's worst thing to even imagine as a parent.

    I have several friends who work in the media (my undergrad is Broadcasting), and one covered the execution. Shortly after he died, I received a text that it was done. I cried then. What sucks a little is that I had some empathy for his family, and maybe there were tears for that. That side of my family is super Catholic--life is what is respected. Those beliefs can go by wayside when it's yours. However, the thought of her last hours horrifies me. I have that anxiety where I have to watch my kids physically get on the bus in the morning. Totally silly on my part.

  8. #308
    has supermodel tits neenerneener's Avatar
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    Why should people like that be allowed to live? I don't understand. What value do they have? What benefits do they bring to the world? And if you're against the death penalty, but you'd be OK with *street justice* or letting the family of the victims geg at them.....that doesn't make sense to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron_NYC
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  9. #309
    Cousin Greg Angiebla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarahric13 View Post
    You know what? I wish that my cousin's murderer, who was executed 2 months ago, had some pain.

    As his litigation stopped executions for a while as a result of lethal injection being cruel and unusual, I am glad this happened after his execution.

    In my family's case, her two confessed murderers got off on stabbing, raping, and leaving her to die in a trunk--am I glad the piece of shit is dead? Fuck yeah. Am I bummed that her other murderer may sit on death row for a bit longer, yes. Does that make me a barbarian? I could give two fucks. She was 15. Both guys have lived an additional 20 years. Fuck them. Should hurt.

    RIP Annie, one down...
    I am for the death penalty, I know that makes me barbaric to some people, but I don't really care what other people think. If a person is sick enough to rape, torture and murder someone then they need to be executed. If I killed someone in a cruel and unusual manner, I would fully expect to be executed for my crime.
    Last edited by Angiebla; 05-04-2014 at 11:31 AM.

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    Moderator puzzld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neenerneener View Post
    Why should people like that be allowed to live? I don't understand. What value do they have? What benefits do they bring to the world? And if you're against the death penalty, but you'd be OK with *street justice* or letting the family of the victims geg at them.....that doesn't make sense to me.
    "if we believe that murder is wrong and not admissible in our society, then it has to be wrong for everyone, not just individuals but governments as well." Helen Prejean

    As for "street justice" well that sin if sin there is, is on the individuals that carry it out, not on those of us who hire the executioner. And I just offered the families 10 minutes with the convict. I didn't say they had to descend to his level. Maybe they'd offer something other than an eye for an eye.
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  11. #311
    Moderator bowieluva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neenerneener View Post
    Why should people like that be allowed to live? I don't understand. What value do they have? What benefits do they bring to the world? And if you're against the death penalty, but you'd be OK with *street justice* or letting the family of the victims geg at them.....that doesn't make sense to me.
    I am against the death penalty because I think our justice system is a sack of shit that executes mentally retarded people AND the innocent. Not to mention the very obvious racial bias. ONE person exonerated after execution is too much, and there have been many, many more than that.

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    Senior Member kevansvault's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by puzzld View Post
    The convicted killer may well have "deserved" the most hideous death that could be devised for him. But. The rest of us are supposed to be better than him. If we torture him to death, or pay our public servants to do so are we not as evil as he is?

    I understand the anger of the survivors of the victim, and I'd be OK with giving them 10 minutes alone with him, but these science project executions, or even the cleanest most painless executions? No. NOT IN MY NAME.
    These aren't science projects. It's painfully obvious that prison officials underestimated this guy's ability to withstand the effects of the medications. One is a sedative, the other a paralytic, the third is just plain deadly (stops the heart) when given IV push. They could simply have given the third drug alone and this guy would have died within minutes but there would have been some writhing around in pain and/or seizure activity prior to death. That's why the paralytic and sedative are given...so you don't get to see the ugly that goes with it. The problem is that drug dosages are merely recommendations and everyone reacts differently to the same dosage of meds. 10 mg's of valium might make you sleep for days, but wouldn't do a damn thing to me. The same is true for the paralytic. That's why they needed to be sure they gave enough of each to ensure a smooth execution but they didn't do that. At all.

    And the vein in the groin is HUGE but requires the use of a longer needle/catheter. If you don't have it all the way in and it slips out...you get ugly results.
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  13. #313
    Superomnininjamember Monter's Avatar
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    I can totally understand why people support the death penalty - I have a part of me that wants that vengeance, or street justice. But as puzz and Bowie explained - it's a corrupt, incompetent system that can't be trusted not to follow a political agenda and make errors, and murder is murder is murder; no one is "justified" in taking a life. (My opinion)
    Helen Prejean is brilliant- what an awesome woman.

    I think it's ok and in fact necessary to have conflicting thoughts on important topics. It should be a little unsettling to talk about taking a life, whichever side you fall on.
    You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.- D. Moynihan
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  14. #314
    Senior Member Sarahric13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monter View Post
    I can totally understand why people support the death penalty - I have a part of me that wants that vengeance, or street justice. But as puzz and Bowie explained - it's a corrupt, incompetent system that can't be trusted not to follow a political agenda and make errors, and murder is murder is murder; no one is "justified" in taking a life. (My opinion)
    Helen Prejean is brilliant- what an awesome woman.

    I think it's ok and in fact necessary to have conflicting thoughts on important topics. It should be a little unsettling to talk about taking a life, whichever side you fall on.
    What I am um...impressed with in this forum is that there is no name calling when someone expresses his/her opinion...no ugly vitriol.

    I DO agree with everyone who said that there is MAJOR racial disparity re:executions; that the mentally retarded are on death row and have been executed; and that there have been innocents executed and sentenced to death row. Bowie said it best: one is too many. I will say that ethically and morally...I (deep down) know that DP is not a call that we (society) should make. However, reading probable cause statements, having the murderers confess (to cut a deal with the prosecutors), and the barbaric way a child was taken out of this world...Michael Taylor got an additional 20 years with his family, and a quick death.

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    Superomnininjamember Monter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarahric13 View Post
    What I am um...impressed with in this forum is that there is no name calling when someone expresses his/her opinion...no ugly vitriol.

    I DO agree with everyone who said that there is MAJOR racial disparity re:executions; that the mentally retarded are on death row and have been executed; and that there have been innocents executed and sentenced to death row. Bowie said it best: one is too many. I will say that ethically and morally...I (deep down) know that DP is not a call that we (society) should make. However, reading probable cause statements, having the murderers confess (to cut a deal with the prosecutors), and the barbaric way a child was taken out of this world...Michael Taylor got an additional 20 years with his family, and a quick death.
    Thank you so so much for sharing your experience with us - truly. Your opinion is intelligent and well stated, and you unfortunately have a perspective that not many have - it is invaluable to the conversation to hear from the families of the victims. Your cousin was beautiful - I am so incfedibly sorry for your loss
    You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.- D. Moynihan
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  16. #316
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    A long time ago I would have felt different than now but with age comes a little bit of learning and understanding. I do see where people that probably didnt commit the crime pay the price and vice versa. It's a double edged sword.

  17. #317
    Senior Member kevansvault's Avatar
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    I agree, WTBB, it's a double edged sword. And for many of us, myself included, the initial reaction is RID THE HUMAN RACE OF THESE BASTARDS!! DIE MOTHERFUCKERS!! Actually, once guilt has been established and/or proven...that's my reaction almost all the time. Personally, I think that overzealous prosecutors who knowingly wrongly convict someone on shoddy evidence should face the same punishment as the offenders. You can present evidence in ways to skew a jury's point of view to see things exactly how you want them to be seen - and that may have zero to do with what actually happened. American law has become a game of "How Many jurors can I fool today" with little or nothing in the way of "truth" or "fact" presented.

    I agree that one innocent life is too many to take, especially given the years spent on death row and the chances for evidence to come to light for their defense. And it is appalling that anyone innocent would die for a crime they didn't commit. But for those who are guilty beyond a reasonable doubt of a crime so incomprehensible or cruel (we've read so many on here, you know the one's of which I speak)...I say douse them in kerosene, light them up and listen to them scream as the life drains out of them. Even that is too good for some of these pieces of shit.

    See, you only get one chance at this thing called life. A few more trips around the sun. Having that taken away from your child, or your mother, or your friend, or anyone...just so some douchenuckle can steal your new F150 and drive it two blocks to rob the local 7-11 then ditch it shows a disrespect for life that deserves a sentence befitting the crime. I can't tell you how many times I've cried reading the stories here on MDS. People who died for absolutely no good reason, due to another person's greed, hate, stupidity or innate assholishness. It's not right that a murderer gets to live to "regret" his crime. Do they really? Or are they just thanking Satan that they still get to wake up and feel the warmth of the sun on their faces? Being able to see their families, even if it's through bars or plexiglas? I don't have the answers. I just have a ton of angst, anger...contempt... for someone who gets to live another day after violently or senselessly taking the life of another. That's why my initial reactions are so raw and (to many of you) unnerving. It hurts me that good people die and bad people live. The death penalty, when executed (see what I did there) properly, helps with this problem.

    Good night.
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    Senior Member animosity's Avatar
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    Senior Member u2addict's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarahric13 View Post
    Yes it was...thankfully he found Jesus when he was on Death Row...

    I really think that the family should be able to decide cases like this. Anne's parents generally did not engage with the media about this case. I will say that they really have been involved with Parents of Murdered Children, and have turned this tragedy into helping other people. Such a unique group of people--world's worst thing to even imagine as a parent.

    I have several friends who work in the media (my undergrad is Broadcasting), and one covered the execution. Shortly after he died, I received a text that it was done. I cried then. What sucks a little is that I had some empathy for his family, and maybe there were tears for that. That side of my family is super Catholic--life is what is respected. Those beliefs can go by wayside when it's yours. However, the thought of her last hours horrifies me. I have that anxiety where I have to watch my kids physically get on the bus in the morning. Totally silly on my part.
    Sarah, I am sorry for your loss. I do not know how you feel losing someone you know or a loved one to a horric crime, but what I do know is I am Pro-Death-Penalty as long as there
    is no shadow of a doubt the inmate committed the crime and if DNA could prove otherwise, go for it.

    When Tommy Lynn Sells was put to sleep, the victims family walked out side the death house for a press confrence and not one bleeding heart reporter asked about
    the innocent young victims he so viciously murdered. I was appalled, screaming at my computer. And when they were asking the victims family if he suffered cruel and
    unusual punishment, Krystal Surlrs grandmother spoke out saying he showed Krystal no mercy, he slit her throat. God bless 'em. The whole confrence was about this piece of shit and whether he suffered. No, he did not suffer. The ammount of barbs flowing in his veins, he just passed out and the snoring is the death rattle. GOOD RIDDANCE!
    Your hell left the fire pit on and open for ya!!

    I feel very sorry for the perps family but it is he or she who brought this horrible plight upon their own families plus look what they did to the survivors families. We never hear about that.

    Fibro Fog has taken over. I am in a constant state of dyscognition so please excuse my retardation.
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  20. #320
    XoXo Miller22's Avatar
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    A Kinder Way to Kill

    I grew up with a killer. My father. He didn't kill in a way that would ever send him to jail. He wasn't in the military. Instead, he used the death penalty. Sometimes he called and gave the order for inmates to be executed.

    My father was damn good at what he did. We grew up in Montana, a small state with fewer murders each year than most cities. His job was to prosecute murderers. Retired now, he spent 21 years as the chief special prosecutor for the Montana Attorney General. And in 21 years, he lost one case—a case in which he fell on his sword for a friend after a botched police investigation. A great lawyer. A perfectionist. If you killed someone in Montana during those years, he was not the man you wanted sitting across from you in the courtroom.

    Currently, only two men sit on death row in Montana, though during his career, my father secured the death penalty on four cases. Twice, during my childhood, condemned prisoners faced execution. Because prisoners with pending appeals can't be executed (except, probably, in Texas; and now, factually, in Oklahoma), a court sets an execution date once the appeals process has been exhausted. In Montana, near midnight, the prison went about the ceremony of preparing a man to die. At 12:01am, the sitting Attorney General was required to call the prison and state, "No appeals are pending for John Doe. Please put this man to death."
    Essay continued at link:http://gawker.com/a-kinder-way-to-kill-1574397518

    Well worth the read.

  21. #321
    Moderator puzzld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miller22 View Post
    A Kinder Way to Kill



    Essay continued at link:http://gawker.com/a-kinder-way-to-kill-1574397518

    Well worth the read.
    Yes. Exactly this.
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    lol at Nestle being some vicious smiter, she's the nicest person on this site besides probably puzzld. Or at least the last person to resort to smiting.
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  22. #322
    Senior Member kevansvault's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miller22 View Post
    A Kinder Way to Kill



    Essay continued at link:http://gawker.com/a-kinder-way-to-kill-1574397518

    Well worth the read.
    This was a good article, and I can definitely see the point. But the thing is - most of the people on Death Row earned the right to be there based on the crimes they committed. They earned that shit. Whether they knew it would land them on Death Row or not isn't an issue. Unless you are totally retarded, you know that doing bad things will land you in bad places. The more heart wrenchingly horrible your crime, the worse your punishment.

    They say that Death Row doesn't serve as a deterrent to the truly determined, and that's true. Nothing deters these assholes from doing the shit they do because they are the truly sick in society. They are the ones for whom the DP was created, the scourge that the human race can do without. But when properly administered...and by "properly" I mean "clearing death row of all inmates in a timely fashion", you can show society that DR isn't the place that anyone wants to end up, because it's all downhill from there. But too often, these consequences aren't considered, because it's so unusual to have someone tried, convicted, sentenced to death and actually put to death in a timely manner. That's inexcusable to me. Unless there are mitigating circumstances that delay your execution, then it should be carried out in a timely manner. No one should spend one second longer on Death Row than necessary for a crime we know they are guilty of.

    I don't give a shit if they are 35 and got beaten by their father as a child. They have had 20 or more fucking years to figure out that what you went through wasn't right, and that other people (outside of your family) aren't to blame for what happened to them. Victimizing others because you were traumatized isn't an acceptable reaction to their experience, period. A kinder way to kill these people, and a much faster way, is to just simply deny them food and water. They'll be dead in days, it's cheap, and we know it works within a given time frame.

    But of course that's considered cruel and unusual, right? .

    Sure, but let's take into account what these people did to get on death row here in the inbred gun loving, Obama fearing state of Texas: You (the perp) kidnap an eighteen year old female, sexually assaulted and fatally shoot her,

    you sexually assault and asphyxiate an 11 year old girl,

    you shoot a cashier and a cop, killing both, just so you can get a few dollars from a check cashing establishment,

    you kill both a 34 year old mother and her 7 year old boy then bury them in the woods,

    you and a friend enter the residence of a 55 year old female...forcibly rape her then take her to a vehicle and shoot her 5 times which results in her death,.

    Every one of these crimes happened right here in Texas. It is fucking disgusting to me that these motherfuckers still get to breathe fresh air..or to breathe at all. Sorry if I don't share anyone's compassion for the lives of the guilty. Everyone has choices to make in life. Making the wrong ones, doing the wrong things...won't end well for you most of the time. You did it, you need to pay for it. Sometimes, you absolutely need to pay with your life. You owe it to your victims and their families, and you owe it to society for the hurt, the pain, the fear, the anger that you left behind in others when you committed your crime.

    I get the article. He's a compassionate man who had an unfortunate job to do. He decided that, to him, the death penalty isn't worth fighting for because it meant another soul would be gone from this earth forever and he personally couldn't be a part of that any longer. He forgets a key point, however...the victims in these cases that got the inmates to DR no longer have a voice...they no longer feel the sunshine on their skin...they can no longer hug their children or their parents. So excuse me for not having any empathy for someone who has taken a life for no good goddamn reason.
    Don't like what I have to say? I respect that. Now go fuck yourself.

  23. #323
    Moderator bowieluva's Avatar
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    The government is not supposed to be vengeance machine, and there are way too many people who are convicted of crimes they didn't commit, or people who were too mentally impaired to understand the crime they committed, and race still plays a massive factor in who gets the death penalty, as just the start of what is wrong with your 'starving them' theory.

  24. #324
    Senior Member animosity's Avatar
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    people who are into the death penalty couldn't give a fuck that innocent people die because of it, bowie... you know that! they always begin with 'yeah, i know some of them are innocent, but we need to string those guilty fucker up by their tongues and stab them with hot pokers for what they did.'

    it's basically a 'i'm not racist but' statement.

    i've asked some people, and they either deny that innocents are convicted or think it's a small price to pay. when you ask them if they'd be ok with it if it was them, their father or their son dying as an innocent, they often lie . sure! i'd be fine dying just so we can later kill people who are actually guilty!

    i think it's a lie, at least.
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  25. #325
    Moderator bowieluva's Avatar
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    It's like when anti-death penalty people suggest airing executions to disturb people, and I'm like what are you smoking? People eat that shit up. People would want to participate. It would be the new American Idol. They'd run out of people to kill and start holding a prison lottery. Executions are one of the oldest forms of public entertainment in history.

    There's a huge difference between a good old hanging and what is done in the middle east. In the middle east, people are executed and mutilated on television for political and religious crimes, and it's to instill fear and encourage subservience.

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