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Thread: Kendrick Johnson (17) Dies after getting trapped in gym mats

  1. #126
    Cousin Greg Angiebla's Avatar
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    So were the results of the second autopsy released?

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  2. #127
    Senior Member TupeloHoney's Avatar
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    VALDOSTA, Ga. (WTXL)--The results of a second autopsy are now in. This after a 17-year old Lowndes High student was found dead in a rolled up gym mat back in January.
    The family's attorney did confirm the autopsy has been finalized, but wouldn't comment any further than that on what the actual results are.
    Kendrick Johnson's father did tell me quote "all our thoughts from the beginning have been true and we are going to fight until the end until we get justice for our son."
    Johnson was found dead in a rolled up gym in January at Lowndes High School. The first autopsy report performed by Georgia Bureau of Investigation revealed his death was accident and that he died as a result of asphyxia.
    Investigators believe he reached inside the gym to retrieve a shoe and got stuck.
    The family believed foul play was involved so they hired a their own pathologist in Orlando to conduct a second autopsy.
    The attorney says he will release information on the autopsy next week.

  3. #128
    Senior Member TupeloHoney's Avatar
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    Oops sorry here's the link (article dated today): http://m.wtxl.com/mobile/news/kendri...9bb30f31a.html

  4. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by TupeloHoney View Post
    VALDOSTA, Ga. (WTXL)--The results of a second autopsy are now in. This after a 17-year old Lowndes High student was found dead in a rolled up gym mat back in January.
    The family's attorney did confirm the autopsy has been finalized, but wouldn't comment any further than that on what the actual results are.
    Kendrick Johnson's father did tell me quote "all our thoughts from the beginning have been true and we are going to fight until the end until we get justice for our son."
    Johnson was found dead in a rolled up gym in January at Lowndes High School. The first autopsy report performed by Georgia Bureau of Investigation revealed his death was accident and that he died as a result of asphyxia.
    Investigators believe he reached inside the gym to retrieve a shoe and got stuck.
    The family believed foul play was involved so they hired a their own pathologist in Orlando to conduct a second autopsy.
    The attorney says he will release information on the autopsy next week.

    thank you so much for the article, I wish they had not been so vague in the statement they released but am looking forward to seeing what they found.

  5. #130
    Senior Member *crickets*'s Avatar
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    New autopsy challenges 'accidental' finding in death of Georgia teen
    By Victor Blackwell, CNN
    updated 3:49 PM EDT, Tue September 3, 2013

    (CNN) -- Kendrick Johnson, the teenager whose body was found rolled in a wrestling mat in a south Georgia high school in January died from blows to the neck and elsewhere, not from accidental suffocation, a newly released, independent autopsy report says. The report, obtained exclusively by CNN, directly contradicts the finding of an autopsy conducted by the Georgia Bureau of Investigation that determined Johnson's death was the result of "positional asphyxia."

    The Lowndes County Sheriff's Office determined it was accidental.

    The new report blames "unexplained, apparent non-accidental, blunt force trauma."

    Johnson, 17, was found January 11 in a rolled wrestling mat in a Lowndes County High School gym in Valdosta. Inconsistencies in the initial official reports on the condition of Johnson's body led the family and community to question the ruling on the cause of death.

    The family's attorney, Chevene King, has sent the independent autopsy report to the U.S. Department of Justice's Civil Rights Division, The Georgia Bureau of Investigation, the U.S. attorney for Georgia's Middle District and the Lowndes County coroner for review.

    The coroner has the power to call an inquest, a process that resembles a grand jury proceeding. After reviewing evidence and testimony, a jury would decide the cause of death, although the findings alone would have no civil or criminal consequences. "Coroner's inquests are not something you do every day. I cannot tell you the last time a coroner's inquest was done in this office," Lowndes County Coroner Bill Watson told CNN.

    On May 1, a judge granted the Johnsons' request to exhume their son's body for the purposes of a conducting an independent autopsy at their expense. That autopsy, conducted June 15, found blunt force trauma to the right neck and soft tissues "consistent with inflicted injury." That supports the narrative of the initial patient care report, written January 11, the day Johnson's body was discovered, citing "bruising noted to the right side jaw." However, the January 25 report by the Valdosta-Lowndes County Regional Crime Laboratory cited "no signs of blunt force trauma on Johnson's face or body."

    The May 5 autopsy completed by the Georgia Bureau of Investigation identified "no significant injuries" A spokesperson for the Georgia Bureau of Investigation told CNN it stands by its report after reviewing the findings of the independent autopsy.

    U.S. Attorney Michael Moore said his office has been "working on this for some time. I'm sure at the appropriate time I'll speak with his pathologist." Moore is reviewing the case but has not launched a formal investigation.
    So what I don't understand is, how can they determine soft tissue injury on a body that's been dead for 5 months? Isn't the soft tissue pretty much gone by then?
    Last edited by *crickets*; 09-03-2013 at 07:00 PM.

  6. #131
    Senior Member TupeloHoney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by *crickets* View Post
    New autopsy challenges 'accidental' finding in death of Georgia teen


    So what I don't understand is, how can they determine soft tissue injury on a body that's been dead for 5 months? Isn't the soft tissue pretty much gone by then?
    I was wondering the same thing back when he was exhumed, but I'm not a medical professional or anything, so I don't know much about that stuff.

    (And thanks for posting the update. I was trying to post the same article, but we got a new computer over the weekend, and Windows 8 is killing me. I won't even say how long it took me to figure out how to open more than one tab in my web browser. )
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  7. #132
    Cousin Greg Angiebla's Avatar
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    No there would be plenty of soft tissue left. The body is preserved well when embalmed.

    After they exhumed Drew Peterson's second wife, who's coffin was partially submerged in water, ten years after she was buried and were still able to change her COD to homicide I was convinced at that point that anything is possible.
    Last edited by Angiebla; 09-03-2013 at 01:48 PM.

    "The love for all living creatures is the most noble attribute of man" -Charles Darwin

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  8. #133
    Senior Member blighted star's Avatar
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    It's possible when the tissue's been preserved, like through mummification & maybe adipocere (sorry, it's too early here & I just can't remember), because I think they're pretty much looking for haemorrhage & the haemorrage will be preserved too. I'm not sure about the effect of embalming though, I've heard that messes things up forensically, though now that I think about it, that might be more a toxicology problem? I'll see what I can find out.


    ETA thanks Ang, you're way ahead of me!
    Last edited by blighted star; 09-03-2013 at 02:00 PM.

  9. #134
    Senior Member morbidT's Avatar
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    I think the tissue would still be there. Enough to see, anyway.

    The family paid for the second autopsy. I'm more apt to believe the family paid the second examiner off than to agree the first autopsy was erroneous.


    Quote Originally Posted by blighted star View Post
    ..... it wasn't anything personal, she just mistook him for a serial killer......

  10. #135
    Certified Grumple Bottoms Ron_NYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morbidT View Post
    I think the tissue would still be there. Enough to see, anyway.

    The family paid for the second autopsy. I'm more apt to believe the family paid the second examiner off than to agree the first autopsy was erroneous.
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  11. #136
    fun hater Shins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron_NYC View Post
    Yeah. That's a pretty heavy assumption, mT.
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    Listen, if no one cares when a crazy noodle walks in and executes children with a gun, no one cares about anything.

  12. #137
    Senior Member morbidT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shins View Post
    Yeah. That's a pretty heavy assumption, mT.

    The EMTs documented "bruising around jaw" and the family is running with that. Pooling of the blood looks like bruising. It was a matter of word choice.

    There is nothing about this case that I found suspicious.

    Too many mouths got involved that don't have any experience or knowledge in regards to forensics or pathology.

    My statement was a poke toward the family for making a pretty heavy assumption of their own. I get they lost a kid and are hurting. I just don't see any foul play in this case.


    Quote Originally Posted by blighted star View Post
    ..... it wasn't anything personal, she just mistook him for a serial killer......

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    Certified Grumple Bottoms Ron_NYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morbidT View Post
    The EMTs documented "bruising around jaw" and the family is running with that. Pooling of the blood looks like bruising. It was a matter of word choice.

    There is nothing about this case that I found suspicious.

    Too many mouths got involved that don't have any experience or knowledge in regards to forensics or pathology.

    My statement was a poke toward the family for making a pretty heavy assumption of their own. I get they lost a kid and are hurting. I just don't see any foul play in this case.
    This shit sounds as suspicious as fuck to me.
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  14. #139
    fun hater Shins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morbidT View Post
    The EMTs documented "bruising around jaw" and the family is running with that. Pooling of the blood looks like bruising. It was a matter of word choice.

    There is nothing about this case that I found suspicious.

    Too many mouths got involved that don't have any experience or knowledge in regards to forensics or pathology.

    My statement was a poke toward the family for making a pretty heavy assumption of their own. I get they lost a kid and are hurting. I just don't see any foul play in this case.
    Yeah, but to pay off an examiner, as if that wouldn't be the first thing that would be investigated?

    I mean... it is possible some degree of foul play happened. It wouldn't be the craziest thing that's happened in the world.
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    Listen, if no one cares when a crazy noodle walks in and executes children with a gun, no one cares about anything.

  15. #140
    sucks to your ass-mar Nancy Drew's Avatar
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    I don't know a ton about this but it seems shady to me that they wouldn't change it from "accidental" to flat-out "homicide" (but maybe they can't do that for legal reasons?).
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
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  16. #141
    Cousin Greg Angiebla's Avatar
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    What is the point of a second autopsy if the findings would have no civil or criminal consequences?

    Also from what I gather from the article it appears they are saying his neck was broken or injured. How do they know that didn't occur when he was struggling to free himself from the mat?

    "The love for all living creatures is the most noble attribute of man" -Charles Darwin

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  17. #142
    Senior Member TessD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morbidT View Post
    The EMTs documented "bruising around jaw" and the family is running with that. Pooling of the blood looks like bruising. It was a matter of word choice.

    There is nothing about this case that I found suspicious.

    Too many mouths got involved that don't have any experience or knowledge in regards to forensics or pathology.

    My statement was a poke toward the family for making a pretty heavy assumption of their own. I get they lost a kid and are hurting. I just don't see any foul play in this case.

    The EMT's also wrote in their report that the High School's Old Gymnasium should be considered a crime scene and refused to move the body. I think it was the sheriff's subsequent handling of this case that made the parent's suspicious. Maybe there is other information ..like statements by students who were there.. that have not been released to the public. They now have two conflicting autopsy reports. If there is also testimony that supports something suspicious happened to this boy, then a Coroner's Inquest to determine cause of death is not unreasonable. Maybe nothing will come of it to change the outcome but just because "Coroner's inquests are not something you do every day. I cannot tell you the last time a coroner's inquest was done in this office," Lowndes County Coroner Bill Watson told CNN, doesn't mean it should not be done.

  18. #143
    has supermodel tits neenerneener's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angiebla View Post
    What is the point of a second autopsy if the findings would have no civil or criminal consequences?

    Also from what I gather from the article it appears they are saying his neck was broken or injured. How do they know that didn't occur when he was struggling to free himself from the mat?
    the satisfaction of *knowing* that their kid didn't die because of a dumb mistake? seriously. its an embarrassing way to die, it just couldn't be true. :/


    as for mT's thoughts, i totally agree. if you get enough people to look at your case, you're bound to find SOMEONE who agrees with you. thats why people get 2nd, 3rd, 4th opinions on things.
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    Certified Grumple Bottoms Ron_NYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neenerneener View Post
    the satisfaction of *knowing* that their kid didn't die because of a dumb mistake? seriously. its an embarrassing way to die, it just couldn't be true. :/


    as for mT's thoughts, i totally agree. if you get enough people to look at your case, you're bound to find SOMEONE who agrees with you. thats why people get 2nd, 3rd, 4th opinions on things.
    That's not what she said though.
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  20. #145
    has supermodel tits neenerneener's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron_NYC View Post
    That's not what she said though.
    i know what she said. i'm more apt to believe they were paid off, too. i was just explaining what else could happen. i should have made that a new paragraph. :P
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  21. #146
    Senior Member *crickets*'s Avatar
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    Georgia teen Kendrick Johnson's death was not accidental, family's autopsy finds
    By Victor Blackwell, CNN
    updated 5:15 PM EDT, Tue September 3, 2013
    (CNN) -- Georgia teen Kendrick Johnson, who was found dead in a rolled-up gym mat at his high school in January, died as the result of "unexplained, apparent non-accidental, blunt force trauma," according to a newly released, independent autopsy report.

    The report, obtained exclusively Tuesday by CNN, directly contradicts the finding of an autopsy conducted by the Georgia Bureau of Investigation that determined that Johnson's death was the result of positional asphyxia. The Lowndes County Sheriff's Office determined that his death was accidental.
    http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/03/us/geo...html?hpt=hp_t2

    The thing is, the 2nd autopsy totally contradicts the 1st one...it finds the kid died as a result of non-accidental blunt force trauma. The trauma wasn't an incidental finding, it was the cause of death.

    That's a BIG difference from "accidental death as a result of positional asphyxia." It's not something that can just be ignored...I think they have to have an inquest at this point.

  22. #147
    Senior Member Pidge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TupeloHoney View Post
    (And thanks for posting the update. I was trying to post the same article, but we got a new computer over the weekend, and Windows 8 is killing me. I won't even say how long it took me to figure out how to open more than one tab in my web browser. )
    I could not use Windows 8 (what a mess of an OS) without Classic Shell. It's a lifesaver and free.

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    Senior Member songbirdsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morbidT View Post
    I think the tissue would still be there. Enough to see, anyway.

    The family paid for the second autopsy. I'm more apt to believe the family paid the second examiner off than to agree the first autopsy was erroneous.
    Could they really afford to pay someone a higher fee in exchange for the desired outcome? Donations, maybe? Shoulda have coughed up the $10 for the locker fee.

    Quote Originally Posted by neenerneener View Post
    the satisfaction of *knowing* that their kid didn't die because of a dumb mistake? seriously. its an embarrassing way to die, it just couldn't be true. :/


    as for mT's thoughts, i totally agree. if you get enough people to look at your case, you're bound to find SOMEONE who agrees with you. thats why people get 2nd, 3rd, 4th opinions on things.
    Yep. See also: expert witnesses testifying on behalf of Jodi Arias and Casey Anthony. See also: that Ingram girl's loony mom.

    Quote Originally Posted by TessD View Post
    The EMT's also wrote in their report that the High School's Old Gymnasium should be considered a crime scene and refused to move the body. I think it was the sheriff's subsequent handling of this case that made the parent's suspicious. Maybe there is other information ..like statements by students who were there.. that have not been released to the public. They now have two conflicting autopsy reports. If there is also testimony that supports something suspicious happened to this boy, then a Coroner's Inquest to determine cause of death is not unreasonable. Maybe nothing will come of it to change the outcome but just because "Coroner's inquests are not something you do every day. I cannot tell you the last time a coroner's inquest was done in this office," Lowndes County Coroner Bill Watson told CNN, doesn't mean it should not be done.
    I understand being upset about the handling of the scene, but would that have any effect on the medical examiner's autopsy findings? Is the examiner privy to details about the crime scene/place of death?
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  24. #149
    Senior Member blighted star's Avatar
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    From http://www.legalserviceindia.com/medicolegal/bruise.htm
    The defence lawyers should also make use of the following:

    -1. The dates given in respect of the colour changes and the determination of the age of a bruise,is mostly derived from foreign books which describe about these changes as observed in the temperate climate whereas our country has a tropical climate.

    2. A bruise is likely to be disfigured by putrefication.

    3. It is extremely difficult to distinguish between an antemortem bruise and a bruise that is produced immediately after death.Sir Robert Christison has proved by experiments that it was difficult to distinguish between an antemortem bruise and a bruise that is produced within 3-4 hours after death using great force (Modi).

    4. Postmortem staining resembles a bruise and a medical officer may make a mistake in identifying a bruise from a patch of postmortem staining at postmortem examination. The postmortem staining is found on the dependent parts of the body on the position in which the body was lying after death. It does not show colour changes as are found in case of a bruise.

    5. Prinston and Goddon of South Africa have drawn attention to the fact that an artefact which simulates a bruise in tissues on the neck can be produced when removing the part at autopsy and this can certainly occur from the ruprture of the Pharyngo-oesophageal plexus (Gradwhol Page 279).

    6. A bruise may not appear at the site of injury but appear at a place remote from the place of injury due to gravity shifting of the extravasated blood (Gradwhol-page 278). Taylor's Medical Jurisprudence also mentions "Bruises are spreading and moving things". 7. In the presence of good muscle tone, as in boxers and trained atheletes, bruising is undoubtedly reduced in severity (Camps and Purchase - page 353).

    Points 4, 5 & 6 are probably most relevant. There's also a pdf from the University of Dundee that explains how to tell the difference after excising the "bruised" area. Will download & see if it helps answer anyone's questions.

  25. #150
    Senior Member blighted star's Avatar
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    Also - http://www.enotes.com/antemortem-inj...ortem-injuries

    After death, the blood stays liquid in the vessels and no longer clots. Careless handling of a cadaver may produce some post-mortem bruising which may need to be distinguished from antemortem bruising. Blood also tends to pool under gravity after death, causing a bruised appearance in the lower limbs, arms, hands, and feet known as lividity. Some of the smaller vessels may even hemorrhage under the pressure of this pooled blood. These bruises could be confused with ante-mortem bruising.

    Recent research has focused on improved techniques for distinguishing between an antemortem and a postmortem injury by analyzing damaged tissue. Antemortem injuries show signs of inflammation, while postmortem injuries do not. Chinese scientists have found that tissue from antemortem injuries contains a chemical involved in inflammation leukotriene B4 (LTB4). Postmortem injuries were found to have no LTB4. This could help the pathologist classify injuries more accurately.

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