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Thread: Kendrick Johnson (17) Dies after getting trapped in gym mats

  1. #151
    Certified Grumple Bottoms Ron_NYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neenerneener View Post
    i know what she said. i'm more apt to believe they were paid off, too. i was just explaining what else could happen. i should have made that a new paragraph. :P
    I dunno. Coverup from family and medical professionals is more believable than coverup from police and state government?
    I guess that's how you guys were raised.
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    Ron was the best part, hands down.

  2. #152
    Senior Member u2addict's Avatar
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    I really hope this kid had a freak accident, from the looks of his face it sure looks that way. He was such a good looking boy and what a shame.

    How the parents feel...I have no idea. Just hope they get some comfort one day.

    I read earlier that parents are claiming Valdosta crime lab kept him in an unair-conditioned drawer 3 days. I apologise if this is old news.
    http://www.afro.com/sections/news/af...?storyid=79113
    Scroll down to read 3 comments.

    Fibro Fog has taken over. I am in a constant state of dyscognition so please excuse my retardation.
    'The worst things in the world are justified by belief'- Raised by Wolves SOI

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  3. #153
    Senior Member morbidT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shins View Post
    Yeah, but to pay off an examiner, as if that wouldn't be the first thing that would be investigated?

    I mean... it is possible some degree of foul play happened. It wouldn't be the craziest thing that's happened in the world.
    I was playing devil's advocate with poking about paying the medical examiner off.

    Crazy things do happen, like, this kid got stuck in a wrestling mat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Angiebla View Post
    What is the point of a second autopsy if the findings would have no civil or criminal consequences?

    Also from what I gather from the article it appears they are saying his neck was broken or injured. How do they know that didn't occur when he was struggling to free himself from the mat?
    I didn't get that his neck was broke. It all came down to what the soft tissue looked like. Which was full of blood because he had been hanging upside down for so long and gravity pulled it into his head/neck.

    Quote Originally Posted by TessD View Post
    The EMT's also wrote in their report that the High School's Old Gymnasium should be considered a crime scene and refused to move the body. I think it was the sheriff's subsequent handling of this case that made the parent's suspicious. Maybe there is other information ..like statements by students who were there.. that have not been released to the public. They now have two conflicting autopsy reports. If there is also testimony that supports something suspicious happened to this boy, then a Coroner's Inquest to determine cause of death is not unreasonable. Maybe nothing will come of it to change the outcome but just because "Coroner's inquests are not something you do every day. I cannot tell you the last time a coroner's inquest was done in this office," Lowndes County Coroner Bill Watson told CNN, doesn't mean it should not be done.
    The EMTs were correct in considering the scene as a crime scene. If the COD is unknown, it is always assumed and homicide is called. The scene is investigated as a homicide until it is found it isn't a homicide. It happens every day, some where.

    The mistake that was made is calling the coroner fell through the cracks. Jim thought Joe called and Joe thought Sally called. There is also a pissing contest between the coroner and the sheriff that has nothing to do with the case, but brought bad publicity to both offices.

    I don't have a problem with an inquest. Not sure why you quoted me for that. It's no different than having a jury for trial.

    Quote Originally Posted by neenerneener View Post
    the satisfaction of *knowing* that their kid didn't die because of a dumb mistake? seriously. its an embarrassing way to die, it just couldn't be true. :/


    as for mT's thoughts, i totally agree. if you get enough people to look at your case, you're bound to find SOMEONE who agrees with you. thats why people get 2nd, 3rd, 4th opinions on things.
    This is my point, I was just being an asshole about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by *crickets* View Post
    Georgia teen Kendrick Johnson's death was not accidental, family's autopsy finds
    By Victor Blackwell, CNN
    updated 5:15 PM EDT, Tue September 3, 2013

    http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/03/us/geo...html?hpt=hp_t2

    The thing is, the 2nd autopsy totally contradicts the 1st one...it finds the kid died as a result of non-accidental blunt force trauma. The trauma wasn't an incidental finding, it was the cause of death.

    That's a BIG difference from "accidental death as a result of positional asphyxia." It's not something that can just be ignored...I think they have to have an inquest at this point.
    It was ruled an "UNEXPLAINED non-accidental blunt force trauma." How can it be "unexplained" and "non-accidental?" It's an easy way to say it's homicide. That's how. Positional asphyxiation can appear as BFT because of the pooling of the blood in the soft tissue. The trauma to the tissue is literally the hemorrhaging that takes place.

    Quote Originally Posted by songbirdsong View Post
    Could they really afford to pay someone a higher fee in exchange for the desired outcome? Donations, maybe? Shoulda have coughed up the $10 for the locker fee.
    Who knows, I was just poking because the parents don't want to accept their son died in a tragic way. I was being facetious.



    Quote Originally Posted by blighted star View Post

    This is good info, blighted!

    One thing though, the blood does not stay complete liquid. It becomes like a sludge. Maybe that's what they meant in the info you found. I just thought I would point it out.

    Have you (general you) had a blood lab drawn and the lab person tips the blood tube to mix with the serum in the bottom of the tube? That's so the blood doesn't clot.


    Quote Originally Posted by blighted star View Post
    ..... it wasn't anything personal, she just mistook him for a serial killer......

  4. #154
    Senior Member TupeloHoney's Avatar
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    Justice Department won't probe death of Georgia teen found in gym mat

    (Sept. 4, 2013) The U.S. Justice Department will not conduct a civil rights investigation in the case of a teenager found dead in a rolled-up mat at his southern Georgia high school, a spokesperson for that agency said Wednesday.

    Kendrick Johnson, 17, was discovered dead last January 11 headfirst in a rolled wrestling mat in the Lowndes County High School gymnasium in Valdosta, Georgia.

    The Justice Department's criminal division is aware of concerns about Kendrick's death, but after reviewing the investigative file, it determined there is not "sufficient indication of a civil rights violation to authorize a civil rights investigation," according to the agency's spokesperson.

    "We have discussed this matter with U.S. Attorney Moore, and his office is continuing to monitor and evaluate this matter, including the second autopsy report," the spokesperson added, referring to U.S. Attorney Michael Moore whose jurisdiction includes Valdosta.

    That second autopsy report, which was obtained by CNN on Tuesday, found that Kendrick died as the result of "unexplained, apparent non-accidental, blunt force trauma."

    This report directly contradicts an autopsy conducted by the Georgia Bureau of Investigation that determined that Johnson's death was the result of positional asphyxia. The Lowndes County Sheriff's Office ruled that his death was accidental.

    Questioning that cause of death, Kendrick's family sent copies of the second autopsy report to the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, the U.S . Attorney for Georgia's Middle District and Lowndes County Coroner -- as well as the U.S. Justice Department's criminal division -- for review.

    Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/04/us/geo...ath/index.html
    Quote Originally Posted by Not your business View Post
    I will out think the fucking pants off of you and you would thank me for helping you out of them.

  5. #155
    Certified Grumple Bottoms Ron_NYC's Avatar
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    Well, that's that.
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    Ron was the best part, hands down.

  6. #156
    Senior Member *crickets*'s Avatar
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    The forensic pathologist who did the 2nd autopsy is speaking out--from CNN:

    On May 1, a judge granted the Johnsons' request to exhume their son's body for the purposes of a conducting an independent autopsy at their expense. That autopsy, conducted June 15, found blunt force trauma to the right neck and soft tissues, "consistent with inflicted injury." It was conducted by Dr. William R. Anderson with Forensic Dimensions in Heathrow, Florida.

    "This is unexplained -- most very, very likely inflicted, as opposed to something he caused himself, inflicted by another -- and therefore needs to be investigated as an open homicide investigation," Anderson said.

    "I've never had a case that I can recall where the prosecution actually was told that this may well be a homicide -- the prosecution being the state, the police and so forth -- and then they didn't bother prosecuting. It's mystifying," he added.

    Anderson's finding supports the narrative of the initial patient care report, written by EMTs with the South Georgia Medical Center Mobile Healthcare Service on January 11, the day Johnson's body was discovered. That report said, "bruising noted to the right side jaw." However, a January 25 report by the Valdosta - Lowndes County Regional Crime Laboratory cited "no signs of blunt force trauma on Johnson's face or body."

    The autopsy results released by the Georgia Bureau of Investigation May 2 identified "no significant injuries." A spokesperson for the Georgia Bureau of Investigation said the agency stands by its report after reviewing the findings of the independent autopsy.

    U.S. Attorney Michael Moore is reviewing the case but has not launched a formal investigation. "We've been working on this for some time," he said. "I'm sure at the appropriate time, I'll speak with his pathologist."
    http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/03/us/geo...html?hpt=hp_t2

    The Justice Dept. not pursuing a civil rights case is a separate issue. A criminal prosecution is up to the U.S. Attorney, who has not made a decision yet.
    Last edited by *crickets*; 09-05-2013 at 01:53 PM.

  7. #157
    sucks to your ass-mar Nancy Drew's Avatar
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    Well, Michael Moore is already tied up investigating KMart and shit.
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    oMG, yeah, no, AMY is in no way superior to Tara. Never.

  8. #158
    Senior Member *crickets*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nancy Drew View Post
    Well, Michael Moore is already tied up investigating KMart and shit.
    I don't know what this means...


    Anyway, here is an in-depth look at what happened, and some background...
    This is what we know:

    Kendrick Lamar Johnson was 17 and muscled and often quiet. He was 5-foot-10 and 160 pounds; an undersize power forward, a seamless hurdler, and a safety who hit like a linebacker. His favorite hamburger came from a truck stop down I-75, just on the other side of Wildwood. He rarely started fights, but when provoked he ended them. His favorite college football team depended on when he was asked: Some days it was Florida, other days Ohio State, and every now and then he'd say he favored UNLV. He hoped to someday learn to grill as well as his father, to win state, and to go to college. He would do none of those things.

    We know that on the morning of Thursday, January 10, he arrived at Lowndes High School wearing three layers of shirts; a white tank top, an orange T-shirt, and a white T-shirt; as well as a belt, jeans, black gym shorts, and boxers. Somewhere on him, he had a Starburst wrapper. We know this from the initial autopsy report, though that document's assertions have now been called into question...
    read more: http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...ldosta-georgia

  9. #159
    sucks to your ass-mar Nancy Drew's Avatar
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    It was another bad joke. WHY DOES NO ONE GET ME.

    Not for nothing but is it common for an autopsy report to say "likely homicide" instead of just "homicide" as a manner of death? I thought they did "undetermined..."?
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    oMG, yeah, no, AMY is in no way superior to Tara. Never.

  10. #160
    Senior Member animosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nancy Drew View Post
    It was another bad joke. WHY DOES NO ONE GET ME.

    Not for nothing but is it common for an autopsy report to say "likely homicide" instead of just "homicide" as a manner of death? I thought they did "undetermined..."?
    i got it.
    Quote Originally Posted by songbirdsong View Post
    "Say, you know who could handle this penis? MY MOTHER."

  11. #161
    Senior Member morbidT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nancy Drew View Post
    It was another bad joke. WHY DOES NO ONE GET ME.

    Not for nothing but is it common for an autopsy report to say "likely homicide" instead of just "homicide" as a manner of death? I thought they did "undetermined..."?
    I got it.



    Well, maybe this examiner has a different autopsy form than the rest of the country, because I've never seen/heard of a box to check for "likely homicide." If undetermined was checked they would lose their "credibility" for it being a "likely homicide."

    See this.

    "This is unexplained -- most very, very likely inflicted, as opposed to something he caused himself, inflicted by another -- and therefore needs to be investigated as an open homicide investigation," Anderson said.
    The second examiner is drawing at straws. Why? I have no idea. Maybe he is looking for sensationalism, I dunno.

    I think the second examiner is playing off of words used by the EMT to describe what he saw. It is completely appropriate to describe lividity as bruising.

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dicti...0&t=1378421295


    Dead person at this link, which I'm surprised because it's wiki. It's not bad, though. Face is covered and you can see "bruising" along the underside of the body.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livor_mortis




    All this isn't for you ND, just throwing it out there.


    Quote Originally Posted by blighted star View Post
    ..... it wasn't anything personal, she just mistook him for a serial killer......

  12. #162
    sucks to your ass-mar Nancy Drew's Avatar
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    Well, I will continue to think it was for me, since I asked. Thank you.
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    oMG, yeah, no, AMY is in no way superior to Tara. Never.

  13. #163
    Senior Member morbidT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nancy Drew View Post
    Well, I will continue to think it was for me, since I asked. Thank you.

    Be that way.

    I added the extra links for everyone's reading pleasure.


    Quote Originally Posted by blighted star View Post
    ..... it wasn't anything personal, she just mistook him for a serial killer......

  14. #164
    Cousin Greg Angiebla's Avatar
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    Morbid how could the ME tell the wounds "inflicted" weren't due to him struggling to get free?

    "The love for all living creatures is the most noble attribute of man" -Charles Darwin

    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
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  15. #165
    Senior Member *crickets*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morbidT View Post
    Crazy things do happen, like, this kid got stuck in a wrestling mat.

    Positional asphyxiation can appear as BFT because of the pooling of the blood in the soft tissue. The trauma to the tissue is literally the hemorrhaging that takes place.

    ...the parents don't want to accept their son died in a tragic way.
    You're making a lot of assumptions, based on incomplete information. From what I've read there are a lot of things that don't add up and/or make sense, and some of it seems downright shady (like the coroner not being called for hours. I mean I understand there might have been some confusion as to who did or didn't call, but that's too long a time lapse for it to be just that.) That part looks to me like maybe the school was more interested in making the 'accident' story stick, because any alternative possibilities (like the kid was assaulted and stuffed into the mat) would be way too 'messy' for them to want to deal with.

    And how would the kid have 'fallen into' a rolled-up mat with an opening narrower than the width of his shoulders, and why would he have been leaning into the top of the rolled-up mat trying to reach his shoes in the first place, when they wouldn't have been anywhere near his reach in that situation? Those are just two, there are many more...

    Quote Originally Posted by morbidT View Post
    The second examiner is drawing at straws. Why? I have no idea. Maybe he is looking for sensationalism, I dunno.

    I think the second examiner is playing off of words used by the EMT to describe what he saw. It is completely appropriate to describe lividity as bruising.
    Again, how is it that you know more than the forensic pathologist (with many years' experience) who actually did the autopsy? I looked him up, there is nothing to suggest any sensationalism or media whore-ism, just a respected, reputable MD (who has written a textbook, BTW.)

  16. #166
    Senior Member morbidT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angiebla View Post
    Morbid how could the ME tell the wounds "inflicted" weren't due to him struggling to get free?
    It's possible IF he had wounds they could be self inflicted.

    Quote Originally Posted by *crickets* View Post
    You're making a lot of assumptions, based on incomplete information. From what I've read there are a lot of things that don't add up and/or make sense, and some of it seems downright shady (like the coroner not being called for hours. I mean I understand there might have been some confusion as to who did or didn't call, but that's too long a time lapse for it to be just that.) That part looks to me like maybe the school was more interested in making the 'accident' story stick, because any alternative possibilities (like the kid was assaulted and stuffed into the mat) would be way too 'messy' for them to want to deal with.

    And how would the kid have 'fallen into' a rolled-up mat with an opening narrower than the width of his shoulders, and why would he have been leaning into the top of the rolled-up mat trying to reach his shoes in the first place, when they wouldn't have been anywhere near his reach in that situation? Those are just two, there are many more...



    Again, how is it that you know more than the forensic pathologist (with many years' experience) who actually did the autopsy? I looked him up, there is nothing to suggest any sensationalism or media whore-ism, just a respected, reputable MD (who has written a textbook, BTW.)
    Annnnnd, what exactly are you doing? What incomplete information am I reading vs. your complete info?

    Hell yeah I'm making assumptions, because that's what this site is. It's a god damn discussion board where we discuss theories, speculate, make assumptions, and OH, THE HORROR! Give our opinions.

    Why don't you take another gander at the thread from the beginning. I'm not repeating myself for you. All the things you are side eying have already been discussed and if you have been reading as much as you say you have, you would have read about them already.

    Look at yourself. So you know all about what makes it "too long a time lapse for it to be just that?" And what makes you such as expert? You read a couple articles?

    No one has ever been stuck in a small space? Again, re read the thread. We've already discussed the instances where people have been known to get stuck in a space where they "shouldn't have fit." Get with the program.

    And I know more because I'm a god damned know it all.

    I also have a lot of experience under my belt. Anywhere near these examiners? Nope. My opinions and theories are coming from personal knowledge and experience, none the less.

    Never have I said I know more. Give me a fucking break. You act like I'm the only person who doesn't agree with the second examiner. FFS

    You know how to use google. Congratulations.

    I never said he was looking for sensationalism or the other terms YOU chose. It's a possibility that I threw out there. Completely speculating ON A DISCUSSION BOARD.

    Even respected and reputable Pathologists make mistakes and get side eyed.

    Since you know how to use google now, try this guy. Here's a link to help you get started. Brilliant, brilliant man. Dickhead, but brilliant. If you google hard enough, you can find his taint.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_L...c_scientist%29


    This guys been bad.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/08/us...pagewanted=all


    Now, I get you think the first ME is the fuck up. I don't. Simple.


    Now get off my ball sack. I'm really tired of seeing you bitch in every damn thread about people speculating.




    ****************

    Sorry folks! Move along, nutin' to see here.


    Quote Originally Posted by blighted star View Post
    ..... it wasn't anything personal, she just mistook him for a serial killer......

  17. #167
    sucks to your ass-mar Nancy Drew's Avatar
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    Ooh, is Henry Lee a dickhead? I always kind of had a crush on him.
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    oMG, yeah, no, AMY is in no way superior to Tara. Never.

  18. #168
    Senior Member morbidT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nancy Drew View Post
    Ooh, is Henry Lee a dickhead? I always kind of had a crush on him.

    Oh, he can be a total dick. He's brilliant and he knows it. I had the pleasure of meeting him once. He was so freaking nice to me and very willing to share his knowledge. I just got chills thinking about it, because it was an amazing experience. I had a hard time understanding him at first, though. There was a group of us that went out to eat. We were in a restaurant discussing pathology. It didn't bother me (still doesn't), but I'm sure the people around us lost their appetite. lol I didn't know he could actually be a dick until I saw him on the stand.


    Quote Originally Posted by blighted star View Post
    ..... it wasn't anything personal, she just mistook him for a serial killer......

  19. #169
    Senior Member blighted star's Avatar
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    A few of the University forensic sites discuss excising an area for microscopic examination if there's any difficulty differentiating between lividity & ante-mortem bruising. Doesn't that imply there are differences at the microscopic level?

    If they only did a standard visual exam of the bruising at the first autopsy, but at the second took the extra steps to examine microscopically, couldn't that explain such a huge difference of opinion without implying professional wrongdoing at either autopsy?

  20. #170
    Senior Member Sarahric13's Avatar
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    Morbid--I'm impressed with your speculation!

    I hate the idea...however way this went down...that this kid died in this way.

  21. #171
    Senior Member morbidT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blighted star View Post
    A few of the University forensic sites discuss excising an area for microscopic examination if there's any difficulty differentiating between lividity & ante-mortem bruising. Doesn't that imply there are differences at the microscopic level?

    If they only did a standard visual exam of the bruising at the first autopsy, but at the second took the extra steps to examine microscopically, couldn't that explain such a huge difference of opinion without implying professional wrongdoing at either autopsy?

    I'm picking up what you are putting down.

    I think there is an implication. I've actually been reading a book regarding a case of suicide vs. murder (Rebecca Zahau- there's a thread for that). Body was exhumed and re examined by another Pathologist and other professionals have read through the records and evidence. In that reading there was this very discussion regarding "bruising." Apparently, there is only a handful of Pathologists, in the U.S., who are qualified (and experienced enough) to make a determination microscopically. Because of this, we end up with these cases.


    I think just because there is a difference of opinion doesn't mean there has to be any wrong doing from either side. I think many times it comes down to a pissing match.


    Quote Originally Posted by blighted star View Post
    ..... it wasn't anything personal, she just mistook him for a serial killer......

  22. #172
    Senior Member morbidT's Avatar
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    This was on my FB newsfeed this morning. An example of someone getting stuck in a confined space.

    Video: Wash. firefighters rescue man stuck in chimney
    Firefighters lowered a rope to the man to hold him in place until he was able to step out about a half-hour later

    TACOMA, Wash. — Firefighters chiseled a hole through bricks early Tuesday to rescue a man who had gotten himself stuck inside a 20-inch wide chimney space at a Washington home that had been converted to apartments.

    The young man was not hurt and was not suspected of a crime, but it's unclear why he apparently climbed into the unused chimney, Tacoma Battalion Chief Dyre Fudge said.

    "Stories range from 'hide and seek" to 'repairing the ceiling. Nobody was able to get the straight story," Fudge said.

    "I'm in my 35th year, and it's something different every day. You can't make it up," he said.

    Firefighters were called about 1:30 a.m. to help the young man who was wedged at the second-floor level of the three-story house. A technical team trained in confined-space rescues was called in to rip through a wall and use power equipment to cut a hole in the chimney.

    Firefighters lowered a rope to the man to hold him in place until he was able to step out about a half-hour later.

    "He was never very panicking and had no real respiratory distress," Fudge said.

    There were other people living in the house, but no one seemed to know why the man apparently climbed into the chimney at the third-floor level and slid down like Santa Claus.

    "No real clue," Fudge said. "Just one of those stupid pet tricks, maybe."

    http://www.firerescue1.com/rescue/ar...ck-in-chimney/


    I can't embed the video at the link.


    Quote Originally Posted by blighted star View Post
    ..... it wasn't anything personal, she just mistook him for a serial killer......

  23. #173
    Senior Member DaddyO's Avatar
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    17yr olds don't get stuck in gym mats and end up with mangled faces. Not really understanding why they did NOT suspect foul play.

  24. #174
    sucks to your ass-mar Nancy Drew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaddyO View Post
    17yr olds don't get stuck in gym mats and end up with mangled faces. Not really understanding why they did NOT suspect foul play.
    If you read the thread it might help put that confusion at bay.
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    oMG, yeah, no, AMY is in no way superior to Tara. Never.

  25. #175
    Senior Member morbidT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blighted star View Post
    ..... it wasn't anything personal, she just mistook him for a serial killer......

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