You make me want to drown myself.Originally Posted by coconut
You make me want to drown myself.
In a sudden heat of passion?
So Coconut, it seems we are the only two interested in discussing the trial and you seem more interested in throwing out grenades tonight, but on the off chance I might catch you in a receptive moment: do you still think it will be M2?
My thoughts after today: they're not buying the felony murder 'she was no longer welcome in his home once she started stabbing him' or the premed 'she had time to reflect and plan to kill him in between the stabbing and slitting his throat', both of which were feeble. If they had there would have been a verdict already. So, that leaves the question did she plan the whole thing with the stolen gun etc. and that part of the case I think is very shaky. Add to that the Horne fiasco which made them look VERY shady and I think they're in trouble. Thoughts?
Nope, when most are in the heat of passion they are doing the wild thing. Nothing else will do.
Read upthread. She has a history of physical violence. TA didn't.
But she did write negative things about TA and how he made her feel, we saw that in her journal entries.
I'm going to go all heat of passion in a minute.
Let's drown him instead.
See now here's a problem. You have no proof. Never arrested. Never even charged for it.
MDS TROLL
I actually might feel safe saying this here! I have never been positive that Jodi does not have PTSD. Metis will prolly punch me for this....I am not saying she has PTSD from Travis' alleged abuse nor her killing of him. I am saying this because PTSD and Borderline Personality Disorder are co-occuring disorders. Many with BPD have suffered unimaginable trauma in their early lives which in Jodi's case could have been exacerbated by her PERCEPTION of abuse by Travis.
Last edited by ImBatman!; 05-06-2013 at 08:31 PM.
"Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; They listen with the intent to reply." ~ anonymous
"Keep calm and sing Soft Kitty"
"it is what it is!"
Hence the reason I said it was not allowed at trial.
I do, that's what I voted in the verdict thread. That has been my thought all along.
I think, when I review all the points of doubt, with all the distractions in the testimony, some mistakes by the prosecution, and the mostly male jury, that they will agree on murder 2 as a compromise verdict to avoid a hung jury.
There's only one way I see this being a hung jury. This is not my postulation, nor is it my belief that it's valid. But, a "guest juror" on the HLN After Dark show made the comment about how she and her peers and younger (she was about 50) would not be put-off by the sex tape and the language they used. She mentioned about 50 Shades of Grey being a bit thing, Sex in the City etc. BUT, she also mentioned that her own mother would no doubt be put off by the sex aspect of it, and that her mother might look unfavorably on Travis, considering him a pervert, or finding the "insults" to be abusive.
A couple of ladies on the talking heads panel remarked that the 4 women on the jury were "older", believing at least some to be in the 60-70 years old range.
The argument is that those older ladies may decide that Travis was inappropriate in having a sex-only relationship with Jodi (even though they did actual couple things at the beginning), and that they may consider his lashing out (with no context as to WHY he lashed out at her), to be verbally abusive, and thus allow them to see her as somewhat of a victim.
I don't buy that argument at all, but I guess with older ladies -- who may be particularly religious, or prim and proper -- they could be put-off by that kind of stuff. Would they use it to justify giving Jodi 2nd degree or less? I would hope not, since at the core of it all, we know Jodi herself said she was a willing participant. If they dislike Travis for his sex life, they should dislike Jodi for hers as well.
I suppose they might think he was mean to her in those texts, but I would also hope that they would consider they don't know the context, or what she said/did to him to provoke that kind of response.
I think the evidence is there for Murder 1. I think the only hope for the defense is the salaciousness they've tried to inject into the trial. The defense knows it too. They've hung their hat on demonizing and demeaning the actual victim.
"Well, it's YOUR fog..." - J. Martinez
I thought of this earlier and just knew that this is the thread to bring it up...
Jurors are just people and they are governed by emotions and feelings. I think that attorney demeanor and connection might play into the verdict. I have to admit that Juan and his "one speed" questioning really bugged me. If the jurors don't like Juan's style, it could be a real problem. Especially with some of the older male jurors, they might be sympathetic towards JA because they didn't like the way Juan treated her.
.. wait, is this really a sub thread??
4 pages already too.
Cool! An unpopular idea thread. I didn't even notice this earlier. I apologise to anyone who's already posted this, I should've read the whole thread first to check.
Oh well, deep breath, here goes (& yes I know it's got holes, it's just a loosely formed idea that I haven't tested against any evidence whatsoever & I have NO emotional attachment to the idea, I don't suggest it's fact in any way shape or form)
So in response to Crickets post above, this is where an idea I've had for a while might come in, & anyone on that jury who IS or has had a relationship with someone like this will probably consider this too. I have found over the years, as a result of my knack for managing to consistently enter relationships with the biggest psycho available at the time (metz & batz, we can discuss my mother later) that people with very jealous & suspicious personalities think everyone is just like them. They think everyone goes through, diaries, texts, phone bills trying to catch their partner/s in a lie. & what kind of lies specifically are they so obsessed with finding? Well lies relating to illicit sexual relationships of course. Why are they CONSTANTLY looking for signs of infidelity? Because they expect infidelity , because they believe, with NO room for doubt that everyone is just like them.
Jealous, suspicious people think everyone is just like they are. It never occurs to them to trust because they believe everyone is lying. They think that when they're caught lying, that it's no big deal, hell, people understand! Because everyone is lying about something everyday. Because THEY sneak & spy & check phone bills to see where their partner's REALLY been, or check out the fuel usage & mileage on their partners car (& I didn't drive at the time, but I was warned, that if I got a car, not to think I could go slutting around behind his back just because I had transport & might be able to beat him home, because he WOULD check if the fuel & mileage matched my "story") they BELIEVE their partner's are doing it to them & they can get REALLY nasty about these imagined threats to THEIR privacy, even though there's always an excuse for stripping the right to privacy from their partners.
The friends in this case describe Jodi as an extremely jealous & paranoid person, so I guess that even though she liked to present a calm, reasonable & fair personality to people who'd known her short term, it's possible that away from public view, she was a constantly fizzing mess, bubbling over with paranoia & jealousy over what a given partner was up to with other women, but also, what lengths that partner was going to, to find out what SHE was doing. So..she's going to visit this other guy. She's still pining for Travis, she wants this chance to see him, but just in case he's still saying he's done with her, she doesn't want a drama if she turns up at new guys house & he figures out she went & saw the ex BEFORE she came to him. I can't see too many blokes being impressed with that. Disregard sexual jealousy & on an intellectual level alone, the new guy is likely to be saying "no thanks, there's obviously still strong feelings there." Jodi doesn't want new guy pissed off too! Not while Travis hasn't come round yet. Look at it from the point of view of someone as clingy &jealous as Jodi. She will be EXPECTING this guy to sneak a look through her ph logs, bank statements, at her gas & mileage. She will take it for granted he might hack her online ph & bank records to check up on her. That's perfectly normal behaviour to Jodi, it's simply what you do when you're falling in love. EVERYONE does it. Anyone who denies it is lying.
So yeah, Jodi did everything she could to fly under the radar so the new guy could never bust her for visiting an ex when she was supposed to be rushing to see new guy. Travis didn't tell her to get lost. Their on-again-off-again relationship switched back to "on" just like it always had & they spent time together, just like they always had. But much later, something happened. I don't know what, but we all know how it ended. & she is panicking now, because if she admits anything, no-one is ever going to believe she didn't plan it. Because she has covered her trail coming here. It's a poorly hidden trail for law enforcement purposes, because it was never intended to hide anything from the law - just the new boyfriend she assumed would be as paranoid & jealous as she is. It's also why some major events are not recorded in her diary - she EXPECTS them to be read secretly & without her permission.& so now something horrible & unexpected has happened but her paranoia & jealousy have dug her into a deep hole & it's too late to tell the truth because already, nobody believes a fucking word (& that's ok, that bit she REALLY gets because she doesn't believe anyone else either).
Last edited by blighted star; 05-14-2013 at 10:47 PM.
This is the best example in all the JA threads of answers that work both ways! It's a completely interchangeable sentence. It didn't matter which of you said it, you're polar opposites on this topic, but it would've been 100% right from either of you. (Sorry guys, it made me laugh)
Oh, blighted star, the trial is over. The only person who knows what really happened is Jodi Arias, not you, not me, not crickets. Only Jodi knows for sure. Crickets and you are entitled to your opinion, and like I said, I don't care to change crickets. It's not that serious.
It's up to the jury now. All we have to do is wait and see how this goes.
Freaking double post!
Last edited by Metis212; 05-07-2013 at 04:40 AM.
I have always thought she would get murder 1. Now, I think murder 2 is possible. It must be hard for jurors knowing there is so much media attention. Stupid HLN!!
Its so true.
In her journal she said that Travis made her sick, and that she wished she didn't love him. She wanted to stop it, make it so that it was lifeless.
She also said she wanted to kill all the things not serving her.
And we know from DeMarte that the times Travis expressed his 'abusive' behavior to Jodi was at times when she had violated his privacy in some way. So Travis wasn't just randomly being mean to her. She had seriously provoked him by being the abuser.
Stalking behavior is indeed aggressive. Wouldn't you find it aggressive on my part if I hacked into your MDS account? Or if I found your email and forwarded all your messages to myself? What if I went and slashed your tires? Or If I showed up at your home at odd times and stared at you?
How would you not find those actions aggressive?
Interesting theory. Where do the gun and the knife come into play in this story? If it was an unexpected killing, are you suggesting that part of her story could be true?
Gawd I love you guys, every last fuckin' one of youz!!!
Batty, what unimaginable trauma did Jodi suffer in her early life? The only things we heard about were the wooden spoons and some inappropriate things said by her father, and one episode where she was pushed by one of her parents and fell, unless I'm forgetting something...
Exactly...."the only things we heard about.
"Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; They listen with the intent to reply." ~ anonymous
"Keep calm and sing Soft Kitty"
"it is what it is!"
Could be, but it's hard to tell anything with Jodi. I mean, what do you do in a case like hers, where she has lied about nearly everything? She even lied on her tests, so how can you divine anything from what she says?
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