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Thread: Brandon (8 Months) died because his parents believe in faith healing

  1. #26
    Senior Member of_corpse_not's Avatar
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    Newer article from May 25th

    Bail Revoked for Faith-Healing Couple Charged With Baby Boy's Murder

    A Philadelphia judge has revoked bail for parents charged with murder after the couple allegedly chose prayer over medical attention for their sick son.

    Herbert Schaible, 45, and his wife Catherine, 44, are charged with third-degree murder and other crimes after their 7-month-old son Brandon died of bacterial pneumonia, dehydration and a group B streptococcus infection in April.

    The couple were convicted of involuntary manslaughter in 2009 for failing to prevent their other son Kyle?s death. The 2-year-old died after contracting pneumonia, an illness prosecutors said could have been prevented with basic medical care.


    Instead, the Schaibles prayed for the illness to go away on its own. They received probation in that case.

    Part of the couple's probation included ensuring their additional eight children, ranging in age from 7-months to 17-years-old, get regular medical checkups and go to the doctor when there's any sign of illness.

    Philadelphia District Attorney Seth Williams said the care was never given and decided to bring murder charges against the couple. The couple's remaining seven children are in foster care.

    The Schaibles are part of First Century Gospel Church in the Juniata Park section of Philadelphia. The church, one of two in the city, believe in faith-healing over modern medicine.

    NBC10 has learned at least two dozen children from First Century Gospel and its mother church First Tabernacle Congregation have died since 1971.

    Common Pleas Judge Benjamin Lerner ordered the couple held without bail during proceedings Friday.

    The couple had previously been held on $250,000 bail. However, Philadelphia District Attorney Seth Williams petitioned the court to pull the couple's bail for violating their probation.

    Judge Lerner said bail was revoked because the couple is a flight risk. He said the couple could be helped and harbored by other faith-healing believers.

    Following the ruling, Assistant District Attorney Joanne Pescatore was pleased with the judge's decision.

    "Like I said to the judge, this is not a retail theft, it's not a petty crime; somebody is dead now as a result of what they did or didn't do," she said.

    The couple's attorney, Bobby Hoff, argued the Schaibles never missed a court date and willingly surrendered.

    "He's not a violent criminal, he's not a sophisticated criminal," Hoff said of Herbert Schaible. "He's a father just like the rest of us are."

    Judge Lerner granted visitation rights to Catherine Schaible and told the court he would try to arrange visits.

    The judge also said he would consider reinstating the couple's bail if they could each raise $25,000 cash.
    http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/...208809161.html

  2. #27
    Senior Member DiaDeLosMuertos's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure if a kid accidentally died on my watch I would be insanely overprotective with the next, running the kid in with every sniffle. This is crazy. I hope they pay this time.
    Jenn

  3. #28
    Senior Member of_corpse_not's Avatar
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    update from today..
    PHILADELPHIA (AP) ? A Pennsylvania couple who believe in faith-healing face 20 years or more in prison in the death of a second child who died without seeing a doctor.

    Herbert and Catherine Schaible are being sentenced Wednesday in the death last year of their 8-month-old son, Brandon. At the time, they were under court orders to seek medical care for their children after their 2-year-old son, Kent, died of untreated pneumonia in 2009.

    The Schaibles are third-generation members of a small Pentecostal community, the First Century Gospel Church in northeast Philadelphia.

    A lawyer for Catherine Schaible, 44, plans to explore their religious beliefs at the sentencing. Her 45-year-old husband's lawyer argues that no malice was involved.

    The Schaibles have pleaded no contest to third-degree murder in Brandon's death. They have seven surviving children.

    "We believe in divine healing, that Jesus shed blood for our healing and that he died on the cross to break the devil's power," Herbert Schaible said in a 2013 police statement. Medicine, he said, "is against our religious beliefs."

    A jury had convicted both parents of involuntary manslaughter in Kent's death, and they were put on 10 years of probation that included orders to seek medical care if any other child got sick.

    After Brandon's death, an irate judge found they had violated parole.

    Prosecutors have described the boys' symptoms as "eerily similar," and said they included labored breathing and a refusal to eat. Catherine Schaible's lawyer, though, said her client tried to feed Brandon during his illness and applied baby powder to keep him comfortable.

    Their pastor, Nelson Clark, has said the Schaibles lost their sons because of a "spiritual lack" in their lives and insisted they would not seek medical care even if another child appeared near death.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...usaolp00000009

  4. #29
    Certified Grumple Bottoms Ron_NYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by of_corpse_not View Post
    Newer article from May 25th

    Bail Revoked for Faith-Healing Couple Charged With Baby Boy's Murder
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    Ron was the best part, hands down.

  5. #30
    Senior Member jessielee's Avatar
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    Good. Fuck these people. I hate them. I wouldn't be surprised if they were making their kids sick. People like this don't deserve to breathe my air.

  6. #31
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    I have a facebook friend that is spreading this whole faith healing crap. That doctors are evil and only want money, medicine is poison and not needed. A lot of herbal treatments and praying and 'positive energy' will cure her child and everyone should research and choose the path of God healing their kid.

  7. #32
    Senior Member jessielee's Avatar
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    I believe that a lot of doctors are money hungry and you shouldn't just medicate every problem that happens along. Like, I don't like cold medicines and shit. I'd rather eat soup, drink water and lay in bed. But If I don't start getting better, ill take them. I also don't like pain meds. I get kidney stones often and the pain is unbearable at times, but if I can lay in bed and rest, I do that instead. I only take them if I have to be up and doing things or if the pain is just so bad I can't deal. If I don't need it, I don't take it. My kid refuses to take medicine when she's sick and I don't force her unless its something she needs antibiotics for.
    But for actual medical illnesses that can kill you, yeah. You need a doctor and medicine for that shit. You need chemo and shit if you get cancer. You need antibiotics if you get pneumonia. Not all medicine is unnecessary or "evil". Many diseases have been cured with medicine and many will continue to be. And to deny medical treatment to a child is wrong and I'm glad they're considering it fucking murder because that's what it is.

  8. #33
    Senior Member becoming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jessielee View Post
    I believe that a lot of doctors are money hungry and you shouldn't just medicate every problem that happens along. Like, I don't like cold medicines and shit. I'd rather eat soup, drink water and lay in bed. But If I don't start getting better, ill take them. I also don't like pain meds. I get kidney stones often and the pain is unbearable at times, but if I can lay in bed and rest, I do that instead. I only take them if I have to be up and doing things or if the pain is just so bad I can't deal. If I don't need it, I don't take it. My kid refuses to take medicine when she's sick and I don't force her unless its something she needs antibiotics for.
    But for actual medical illnesses that can kill you, yeah. You need a doctor and medicine for that shit. You need chemo and shit if you get cancer. You need antibiotics if you get pneumonia. Not all medicine is unnecessary or "evil".
    Agree with the above. I am slow to medicate with myself and my kids. I really have a hard time giving the government control of what medicines I give my kids, but obviously there has to be a line drawn somewhere. These parents went way overboard, for sure.

  9. #34
    Senior Member animosity's Avatar
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    this is obviously a scheme they came up with to avoid paying those obamacare premiums.
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  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katerss View Post
    I have a facebook friend that is spreading this whole faith healing crap. That doctors are evil and only want money, medicine is poison and not needed. A lot of herbal treatments and praying and 'positive energy' will cure her child and everyone should research and choose the path of God healing their kid.
    I really hate this kind of shit. That's what they were doing in the dark ages....I agree that a lot of our modern medicines derive from herbal treatments and such but God also gave people the brains and stuff to be doctors and think, hey what can we do instead of amputate this leg? Are there bad doctors and failed treatments? Yes Enough of them to stop going to them? No And we have seen what some of these herbal treatments can do---ex. girl with hole for a nose

  11. #36
    Scoopski Potatoes Nic B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katerss View Post
    I have a facebook friend that is spreading this whole faith healing crap. That doctors are evil and only want money, medicine is poison and not needed. A lot of herbal treatments and praying and 'positive energy' will cure her child and everyone should research and choose the path of God healing their kid.
    You should send that person a link to this story, about the death of Kent and Brandon. Then ask them if they still believe it. And if their belief is worth the life of your child/children and jail time.


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  12. #37
    Senior Member u2addict's Avatar
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    What the fuck is wrong with these imbeciles? Oh I know, they beLIEve prayer will heal their sick and dying child
    indstead of f'n modern medicine.

    If they are soooooo religious, theye should know that god created medicine, just like every good little christian does.

    Duh, I hope prayer heals this one, cause modern medicine is the DEVIL! Idiofuckinit!

    Die you two gravy suckin pigs, just kill yourselves.

    Asshole piece of two no good shits

    Gahhhh, I am sooooo pissed
    Last edited by u2addict; 02-19-2014 at 12:12 PM. Reason: pissed off

    Fibro Fog has taken over. I am in a constant state of dyscognition so please excuse my retardation.
    'The worst things in the world are justified by belief'- Raised by Wolves SOI

    "Your life is short, it's the longest thing you'll ever do/ the worse the curse was that your dreams came true/
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  13. #38
    Moderator puzzld's Avatar
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    I've looked at the birth and death records for the village that my people emigrated from (South Russia ca. 1870) 1/2 of the babies born did not survive til their 1st birthday. 1/2 of the survivors didn't make it to 10.

    Tell me how horrible modern medicine is.
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    lol at Nestle being some vicious smiter, she's the nicest person on this site besides probably puzzld. Or at least the last person to resort to smiting.
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  14. #39
    Senior Member jessielee's Avatar
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    This faith healing shit is stupid. If you believe in god and believe he answers prayers to heal you when you are sick, why wouldn't you believe that doctors and medicine are actually answered prayers? God has no hands. So wouldn't he provide the cure in an indirect way? Maybe I just don't get it since I'm an atheist, but wouldn't that be logical? Not that logic is a strong suit of these kind of people.

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    The atheist above has more common sense and a more precise picture of god than these "Christians" do. Its a shame that overly religious (stupid) people give Christians a bad name.

  16. #41
    Cousin Greg Angiebla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by puzzld View Post
    I've looked at the birth and death records for the village that my people emigrated from (South Russia ca. 1870) 1/2 of the babies born did not survive til their 1st birthday. 1/2 of the survivors didn't make it to 10.

    Tell me how horrible modern medicine is.
    Exactly this.

    If these people claimed ignorance and it was 1970 that would be one thing, but it's 2014 people!

    I just hope that these children didnt suffer, but I have a feeling they did

    This is not an "over-medicating the children of America" issue, if the baby wasn't eating anymore something was seriously wrong, and fuck these parents for not getting their son help

    "The love for all living creatures is the most noble attribute of man" -Charles Darwin

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  17. #42
    Certified Grumple Bottoms Ron_NYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angiebla View Post
    Exactly this.

    If these people claimed ignorance and it was 1970 that would be one thing, but it's 2014 people!

    I just hope that these children didnt suffer, but I have a feeling they did

    This is not an "over-medicating the children of America" issue, if the baby wasn't eating anymore something was seriously wrong, and fuck these parents for not getting their son help
    They definitely suffered. Do NOT kid yourself. Kidding yourself is for those jackholes. This is basically torturing someone to death.
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    Ron was the best part, hands down.

  18. #43
    Moderator puzzld's Avatar
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    This is a tough diary to write. There is no internal conflict about this subject, for me, just a seething anger towards narcissistic people hiding behind an obsolete and barbaric belief system. Welcome to Idaho. KATU's Dan Tilkin went into Idaho to look for two children's burial sites and came up with more:

    [all bold usage in blockquotes are my emphasis]

    A former member of the Followers of Christ advised him to go to Peaceful Valley and look for two specific names.

    He found them. He found many more.

    Garrett Dean Eells.

    The coroner?s report says Garrett was a 6-day-old baby who died of interstitial pneumonitis. That?s pneumonia, untreated.

    Followers of Christ is a "faith-healing" sect of Christianity that believes in "laying hands on" and prayer instead of hocus pocus like science and medicine and doctors. This is a problem because people die as a result of this. Specifically children die. Here's a listing of Dan Tilkin's findings:

    Jackson Scott Porter?20-minute-old girl
    Preston Bowers?2-year-old boy
    Rockwell Sevy?14-year-old boy
    Arrian Jade Granden?15-year-old girl
    Micah Taylor Eells?4-days-old boy
    Pamela Jade Eells?16-year-old girl
    Jerry Gardener?11-year-old boy
    Syble Rossiter?12-year-old girl

    Each one of these children died, in all likelihood, as a result of their parents' and community's negligence. You will not convince me that a belief system which allows you to watch your teenage daughter die in front of you from pneumonia has anything to do with God. It's about you and a belief that your "faith" is so important that you will watch your daughter's lungs drown in fluid while you put your powerless hands on her.

    Pamela Jade Eells.

    Doctor Charles Garrison performed the autopsy on 16-year-old Pamela. She died of pneumonia.

    "If you?ve ever been in a situation where you can?t breathe, it?s pretty desperate.

    "You?re drowning in your own fluids.?

    Unfortunately, many of these cases can't be investigated because THIS IS NOT AGAINST THE LAW.

    DeGues-Morris says she hasn't done an autopsy on a Followers of Christ child in years, because in Idaho it's not illegal for a parent or guardian to choose prayer over medicine as treatment for a sick child.

    Idaho statute 18-1501 outlines the law that a parent who "chooses...treatment by prayer...shall not...have violated the duty of care to such child."

    Canyon County Prosecutor Bryan Taylor says his hands are tied when it comes to punishing parents who choose faith healing over medicine, even to the very end.

    "If they don't want to have their children go to a doctor, as long as they haven't caused the injuries, then we don't really have a leg to stand on in exploring criminal charges," says Taylor.

    Here's an example of deadly hubris.

    Jackson Scott Porter.

    Jackson was a baby girl. She lived only 20 minutes. The coroner?s report said she received no pre-natal care.

    Her grandfather, Mark Jerome, says she died in his house three months ago after his daughter went into labor.

    ?Well, when she came over, she was just sick - like a kidney infection or something like that,? Jerome said. ?So she just wanted to come to the house for a couple days. And when she had the baby no one expected it, it just happened that quick."

    The coroner used the words ?extreme prematurity? to describe the labor.

    Jerome said he doesn?t regret the lack of pre-natal care. That gets to the heart of faith-healing.

    ?That's the way we believe,? he said. ?We believe in God and the way God handles the situation, the way we do things."

    That's what guys in ISIS say to justify cutting people's heads off.

    There's more below the fold.

    Preston Bowers and Rockwell Sevy.

    The Canyon County coroner believes Preston had Down?s Syndrome, and that the 2-year-old died of pneumonia.

    KATU reported on his death in 2011, along with that of 14-year-old Rocky.

    Rocky isn?t buried in the cemetery, but he lived nearby with his parents, Sally and Dan.

    They didn?t want to talk about not getting him treatment.

    "What I will talk to you about is the law,? Dan Sevy said. ?I would like to remind you this country was founded on religious freedom, and on freedom in general. I would like to say, I picture freedom as a full object. It's not like you take "a" freedom away. It's that you chip at the entire thing. Freedom is freedom. Whenever you try to restrict any one person, then you're chipping away at freedom. Yours and mine."

    That was that. Sevy didn?t want to talk any more about it.

    ?I told you I'm not going to do that,? he said. ?You don't understand the full story, and I'm not going to stand in front of a camera and give you the whole story. It's just not going to happen. I see the way these things get edited out.

    ?All I see is an aggressive campaign against Christianity in general, it?s amazing to me in this day and age where Muslims get soft pedaled and Christians are under attack. It just blows my mind.?

    There is little movement in getting many of these "exemptions" changed. However, not every state is stuck in a barbaric quicksand:

    Earlier this year, the Oregon House voted unanimously, 59-0, to remove legal protection for parents who decline medical intervention in the case of a sick child based on religious reasons.

    Discussion in the Oregon Senate started Thursday.
    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/1...-faith-healing
    Last edited by puzzld; 11-21-2014 at 11:34 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    lol at Nestle being some vicious smiter, she's the nicest person on this site besides probably puzzld. Or at least the last person to resort to smiting.
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    Senior Member PeaceBeWithMe's Avatar
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    OMG!

    This infuriates me!

    Well, based on their distorted vision, I guess God wants me dead.

    I've had viral meningitis THREE fucking times and had I not gone for treatment, I'd be dead, dead, dead! PRAYING WAS NOT GOING TO HELP ME!

    OMG! I'm just fuming!

  20. #45
    Moderator puzzld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBeWithMe View Post


    OMG!

    This infuriates me!

    Well, based on their distorted vision, I guess God wants me dead.

    I've had viral meningitis THREE fucking times and had I not gone for treatment, I'd be dead, dead, dead! PRAYING WAS NOT GOING TO HELP ME!

    OMG! I'm just fuming!
    Yep. I was very sick (food poisoning) when I was small. If my folks hadn't got me medical care, I'd have died. Not to mention all the times I was sick with some lesser bug that was nipped in the bud early. Two of my Uncles died as babies because the wasn't a good treatment for pneumonia back in their day. God is frequently too busy watching for sparrows to fall to save every kid. That's why he created doctors.
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    lol at Nestle being some vicious smiter, she's the nicest person on this site besides probably puzzld. Or at least the last person to resort to smiting.
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    Why on earth would I smite you when I can ban you?

  21. #46
    Senior Member UncomfortablyNumb's Avatar
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    I can't with this shit. Anyone who doesn't think that a severely ill child needs to see a doctor is a complete fucking idiot. Did God not give these people common sense??
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    She transitioned from a stupid asshole to a dumb bitch.

  22. #47
    i HATE hearing this shit. and it being here in philly makes it that much worse...let this be a poor family of color who didn't get their kid treatment bc they didn't have medical insurance and see how quickly they'd be thrown in jail! *rage*

  23. #48
    Moderator nestlequikie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dieblauereiterin View Post
    i HATE hearing this shit. and it being here in philly makes it that much worse...let this be a poor family of color who didn't get their kid treatment bc they didn't have medical insurance and see how quickly they'd be thrown in jail! *rage*
    You couldn't just say an uninsured family? I certainly do not see race as a necessary element for your scenario.
    I hope that when the world comes to an end, I can breathe a sigh of relief, because there will be so much to look forward to. - Donnie Darko

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by puzzld View Post
    Yep. I was very sick (food poisoning) when I was small. If my folks hadn't got me medical care, I'd have died. Not to mention all the times I was sick with some lesser bug that was nipped in the bud early. Two of my Uncles died as babies because the wasn't a good treatment for pneumonia back in their day. God is frequently too busy watching for sparrows to fall to save every kid. That's why he created doctors.
    My pap and his twin had pneumonia as kids drs didn't give them a good outlook and my paps still here. He thought he had the flu at the beginning of the year then one day he couldn't even stand up with out being out of breath turns out he had heart failure then a month later got pneumonia.

  25. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by nestlequikie View Post
    You couldn't just say an uninsured family? I certainly do not see race as a necessary element for your scenario.
    not necessary, no, but likely. here in philly everything is viewed through the lens of race. O_o

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