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Thread: Neo-nazis viciously murder a Swedish boy *warning: contains graphic post-mortem*

  1. #76
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    Re: Neo-nazis viciously murder a Swedish boy *warning: contains graphic post-mor

    [quote author=christine k link=topic=5627.msg245621#msg245621 date=1174580497]
    Have you ever considered, Miseryguts, than many of the recipients of your assistance are innate master manipulators?
    [/quote]

    Hell I don't assist them ....good god.... I'm a researcher, I haven't got the patience or ability to switch off at night to be involved day to day although I have huge respect for those who do, I interview them and collect the figures and provide information to the policy makers. I evaluate interventions in terms of money and effectiveness, I am neutral.

    Of course they are manipulators, my god, how can you grow up in that kind of environment and not know your stuff, there are 8 year olds who know how the manipulate the criminal justice system, they learned it in the womb, they learn disrespect for services, for police and for teachers from hearing the family talk, they are manipulative alright and so are the parents, they will say and do whatever you want to get the hell away. These little kids then grow up into manipulative teenagers.... it's normal behaviour, it's reinforced and backed up by everything they have lived.

    Innate, does that mean born with the skills to manipulate, are you referring to psychopaths, no in the majority of cases I'm pretty damn sure it's learned, they are like mini me versions of their parents and the younger brothers and the younger sisters are just the same.


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    Re: Neo-nazis viciously murder a Swedish boy *warning: contains graphic post-mortem*

    What I am saying is that I (and the majority of the people I know) had the same types of environment, abuse, same factors in general, as a lot of these offenders claim in their legal defense.  I didn't grow up in the ghetto.  I know a few who had it MUCH, much worse, and even fewer who had it better.  To me, this says I am pretty damned average.  If we are allowed to use our own shortcomings (or fucked up perceptions) as an excuse to maim the powerless and defenseless - how can there be any hope at all for a civilized society?

  3. #78
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    Re: Neo-nazis viciously murder a Swedish boy *warning: contains graphic post-mor

    [quote author=christine k link=topic=5627.msg245703#msg245703 date=1174584521]
    What I am saying is that I (and the majority of the people I know) had the same types of environment, abuse, same factors in general, as a lot of these offenders claim in their legal defense.  I didn't grow up in the ghetto.  I know a few who had it MUCH, much worse, and even fewer who had it better.  To me, this says I am pretty damned average.  If we are allowed to use our own shortcomings (or fucked up perceptions) as an excuse to maim the powerless and defenseless - how can there be any hope at all for a civilized society?
    [/quote]

    Well it is ME that is making the argument, not the kids or the families, I am shocked though that where you come from that would be considered a normal upbringing. I was lucky, we were dirt poor and lived on a housing estate but my parents cared about us and taught us right from wrong, if you missed out on that then you'd make an interesting case study, with abuse, neglect, alcoholism etc where did you learn your values?


    A wife is beaten every day by her husband and then he starts beating the kids, he is mean and horrible and she feels she has nowhere to go so the next time he starts shouting at the kids she thinks uh-oh here we go again and knocks him out with a frying pan ... kills him. technically it's not self defence but I would certainly expect some of what led up to the final act to be taken into account in the final sentencing.

    If a kid is maltreated and not educated and abused by a family friend and then starts to abuse his younger cousin, then I would expect someone to raise the issue of their background as an explanation for their actions, not an excuse and for it to be taken into account when thinking what punishment and treatment they need.

    No-one (especially not me) is arguing that that is okay to commit crime and I'd love for anyone to find an example where I have suggested that someone should walk free after committing heinous offences, in fact I advocate longer prison sentences but rehabilitative ones, I don't think people who commit sex crimes should be allowed out in any way other than on license (although I completely abhore Megans Law) and I advocate longer sentences for them. I am extrmely pro longer prison terms for drunk/impaired drivers and I think that even when out you should never have a license again and I am pro smacking and pro corporal punishment.

    I think that anyone who commit offences should be treated humanely and I am disgusted by the death penalty, I support the welfare model for dealing with children who offend because when a child never attends school, hates the police and throws wood on railways lines for fun then you have to ask what the hell their parents are doing and unless they seriously change their understanding of their job then that kid probably stands a better chance away from their parents (depressing as that sounds).

    How can there be hope for a civilised society where people actually think they can and should take matters into their own hands when something doesn't go their way, or where the custodians of those we are trying to rehabilitate get pleasure in treating them just as badly as they might have been treated as kids, where the people outside the prison walls laugh and cheer as other prisoners thinking they are in some way 'better' than some other prisoner kill them, in their name. How can there be a civilised society unless the laws that a country live by are adhered to and you are innocent until proven guilty and how can you know what punishment fits the crime without understanding the crime in the first place?

  4. #79
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    Re: Neo-nazis viciously murder a Swedish boy *warning: contains graphic post-mortem*

    Just to clarify.  I was raised in the southeastern US - and I was taught right from wrong. 

    That's my point.  Most people have a choice to repeat patterns or not.  That's life.

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    Re: Neo-nazis viciously murder a Swedish boy *warning: contains graphic post-mor

    [quote author=christine k link=topic=5627.msg245759#msg245759 date=1174586505]
    Just to clarify.  I was raised in the southeastern US - and I was taught right from wrong. 

    That's my point.  Most people have a choice to repeat patterns or not.  That's life.
    [/quote]


    Oh relieved to hear it, just to clarify I was in the last 4 posts pretty much talking about people who are NOT taught right from wrong, I was talking about people from terrible backgrounds.


    Hmm, well in my experience not being taught right from wrong pretty much lessens your choices, being abused also lessens your choices, being neglected lessens your choices. Being in a shitty situation lessens choices.

    The whole point of cycles of abuse is that actually the person living it doesn't have an awful lot of choice because their perception and understanding of attraction, appropriate behaviour, empathy and kindness is twisted. *sigh* I'll repeat again, obviously not in every case, for example in my own case although I was damaged by being groomed by an abuser for 4 years, other than that aspect of my life I was comparatively healthy and thus have not (yet) shown any signs of continuing the cycle, again I reiterate, I was fortunate, others not so.

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    Re: Neo-nazis viciously murder a Swedish boy *warning: contains graphic post-mortem*

    I wonder how long this little neo nazi douchebag would have gotten if it was the judge's child that was killed.


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    Re: Neo-nazis viciously murder a Swedish boy *warning: contains graphic post-mor

    [quote author=delta9 link=topic=5627.msg245804#msg245804 date=1174587526]
    I wonder how long this little neo nazi douchebag would have gotten if it was the judge's child that was killed.


    [/quote]

    I think we have to cling to the hope that for the sake of justice he would have got exactly the same, regardless of your opinions on the length and type of sentence.

  8. #83
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    Re: Neo-nazis viciously murder a Swedish boy *warning: contains graphic post-mor

    [quote author=miseryguts link=topic=5627.msg245816#msg245816 date=1174587807]
    I think we have to cling to the hope that for the sake of justice he would have got exactly the same, regardless of your opinions on the length and type of sentence.
    [/quote]

    The only thing I would be clinging onto is his fucking neck. And you can bet he would have gotten a longer sentence.

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    Re: Neo-nazis viciously murder a Swedish boy *warning: contains graphic post-mor

    [quote author=delta9 link=topic=5627.msg245822#msg245822 date=1174587995]
    The only thing I would be clinging onto is his fucking neck. And you can bet he would have gotten a longer sentence.
    [/quote]

    uhhhh yeah, and that's why that judge would never be allowed to preside over the case.
    [quote author=Ron_NYC link=topic=4526.msg172502#msg172502 date=1170561506]<br />How can you have any lack of love for SG!?!?<br /><br />I tink shes more kewler then most!<br />[/quote]

  10. #85
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    Re: Neo-nazis viciously murder a Swedish boy *warning: contains graphic post-mor

    [quote author=saidgrace link=topic=5627.msg245860#msg245860 date=1174588848]
    uhhhh yeah, and that's why that judge would never be allowed to preside over the case.
    [/quote]

    obviously.
    It just bothers me when people in authority don't seem to care about the grieving families.
    &quot;It's not a member of my family that died, give the murderer another chance&quot;
    or
    &quot;it's not my family that has to go to war, so send more troops to the slaughter!&quot;

  11. #86
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    Re: Neo-nazis viciously murder a Swedish boy *warning: contains graphic post-mor

    [quote author=miseryguts link=topic=5627.msg245503#msg245503 date=1174573331]


    Actually your statement is false, harsh punishments do not have a deterrent effect, crime numbers are increasing in Britain, partly because the measuring tools have changed in recent years so you are not comparing like with like in terms of types and numbers of different offences, secondly the fear of crime or perception of crime is nowhere near the reality of crime due mainly to screaming headlines and hysterical reactions, thirdly the length of life sentences has actually increased in the last twenty years
    [/quote]

    im so calling bullshit on this......why is when you ask your grandparents or even your parents what life was like when they were young they will nearly all say something like &quot;everyone knew everyone and you could go out all day and leave your house open with no fear of being robbed etc&quot;
    I said to my dad earlier that some fool thinks crime is no worse today than fourty years ago.....he rolled up in a sarcastic laughter, I think his words were &quot;when I was a teenager I could go out to town any night of the week and walk the streets in the early hours with no fear of being a victim of crime.......when I went to the theatre with my brother and his wife on a wednesday night last week there were drunk teenagers screaming obsenities and behaving in a threatening manner and being openly abusive on the streets&quot;


    [quote author=delta9 link=topic=5627.msg245584#msg245584 date=1174578289]


    Get your fucking head out of the sand. Their poor child was tortured. The justice system is a fucking joke.

    If you want something done right, sometimes you have to do it yourself.
    [/quote]

    dude...that was a truely excellent post.....direct and to the point

    [quote author=christine k link=topic=5627.msg245593#msg245593 date=1174578729]
    &nbsp;

    This describes my formative years.....and at least 90% of the kids I grew up with.&nbsp; Only 1 ended up in prison as a violent offender.&nbsp; The majority were able to overcome their situations and not expect society to give them a free pass because they had it rough.&nbsp; Entirely too much sympathy is given to the WRONG people - the offenders themselves.
    [/quote]

    another excellent post.....

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    Re: Neo-nazis viciously murder a Swedish boy *warning: contains graphic post-mor

    [quote author=SOAD link=topic=5627.msg246096#msg246096 date=1174595380]
    im so calling bullshit on this......why is when you ask your grandparents or even your parents what life was like when they were young they will nearly all say something like &quot;everyone knew everyone and you could go out all day and leave your house open with no fear of being robbed etc&quot;
    I said to my dad earlier that some fool thinks crime is no worse today than fourty years ago.....he rolled up in a sarcastic laughter, I think his words were &quot;when I was a teenager I could go out to town any night of the week and walk the streets in the early hours with no fear of being a victim of crime.......when I went to the theatre with my brother and his wife on a wednesday night last week there were drunk teenagers screaming obsenities and behaving in a threatening manner and being openly abusive on the streets&quot;



    [/quote]

    I just love the fact that you carefully trimmed out that part of my post that actually addressed this issue.

    Not only selective understanding and selective reading but selective responding as well .... cute.


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    Re: Neo-nazis viciously murder a Swedish boy *warning: contains graphic post-mor

    [quote author=miseryguts link=topic=5627.msg247214#msg247214 date=1174641488]
    I just love the fact that you carefully trimmed out that part of my post that actually addressed this issue.

    Not only selective understanding and selective reading but selective responding as well .... cute.


    [/quote]

    you liked that? thx!!

    I only trimmed it back so people didnt have to read it all twice....fact is most people can see through what your trying to say.

    Me and you are never gonna agree (except for the fact I think its nice you got a rescue cat) and I dont think that christine k, or delta 9 will agree with your points on crime and punishment either.....so im just gonna drop the whole thing because as I stated to sadgrace &quot;internet arguments are more retarded than the special olympics&quot;
    Academically your probably quite a bright person...I just think you show no logic, you can probably analyse the contents of a jam jar....you just have trouble getting the lid off.

    as for calling me &quot;some kid from the uk&quot;.....nice the way you try to belittle me to make yourself look smarter.....was that straight from Psychology 101 ?

    as for calling you fat....that was a bit wrong of me, but thats all im apologising for.......im just gonna ignore you in peace now....kind of &quot;agree to disagree&quot;

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    Re: Neo-nazis viciously murder a Swedish boy *warning: contains graphic post-mor

    [quote author=SOAD link=topic=5627.msg247230#msg247230 date=1174645558]
    you liked that? thx!!

    I only trimmed it back so people didnt have to read it all twice....fact is most people can see through what your trying to say.

    Me and you are never gonna agree (except for the fact I think its nice you got a rescue cat) and I dont think that christine k, or delta 9 will agree with your points on crime and punishment either.....so im just gonna drop the whole thing because as I stated to sadgrace &quot;internet arguments are more retarded than the special olympics&quot;
    Academically your probably quite a bright person...I just think you show no logic, you can probably analyse the contents of a jam jar....you just have trouble getting the lid off.

    as for calling me &quot;some kid from the uk&quot;.....nice the way you try to belittle me to make yourself look smarter.....was that straight from Psychology 101 ?

    as for calling you fat....that was a bit wrong of me, but thats all im apologising for.......im just gonna ignore you in peace now....kind of &quot;agree to disagree&quot;
    [/quote]

    I already was ignoring you (perfectly comfortably) until you started smiting me again, and then attacked me on this thread *shrug*.

    Make up your mind.

    Oh and I'm pretty sure I said 'some kid from england'&nbsp;

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    Re: Neo-nazis viciously murder a Swedish boy *warning: contains graphic post-mortem*

    Why don't you two just fuck to break this tension?!?!

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    Re: Neo-nazis viciously murder a Swedish boy *warning: contains graphic post-mortem*

    [quote author=Cap-n Meow link=topic=5627.msg247241#msg247241 date=1174650160]
    Why don't you two just fuck to break this tension?!?!
    [/quote]

    &quot;how could that happen to me?.....I made my mistakes&quot;&nbsp;

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    Re: Neo-nazis viciously murder a Swedish boy *warning: contains graphic post-mortem*

    [quote author=SOAD link=topic=5627.msg247242#msg247242 date=1174650304]
    &quot;how could that happen to me?.....I made my mistakes&quot;&nbsp;
    [/quote]Oh...now thats not right!&nbsp; I also hear a train whistle in my head when I think of that song.

  18. #93
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    Re: Neo-nazis viciously murder a Swedish boy *warning: contains graphic post-mortem*

    I'm hearing &quot;What have I....What have I.....What have I done to deserve this.......&quot;

  19. #94
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    Re: Neo-nazis viciously murder a Swedish boy *warning: contains graphic post-mortem*

    [quote author=christine k link=topic=5627.msg247272#msg247272 date=1174656156]
    I'm hearing &quot;What have I....What have I.....What have I done to deserve this.......&quot;
    [/quote]

    haha, strangely enough I made a ytmnd using pet shop boys
    http://anheropetshop.ytmnd.com/


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