The Trayvon Martin discussion

[PAMK]

I'm in love with his voice. His opening is powerful.

Zimmerman looks like a sullen teenager who got put in a time out.

Would you more pleased if GZ sat there with a toothy grin on his face?

[Harlette]

this was george the day after - he was not pudgy then and trained in MMA, and i posted the medical report a few pages back and they said on his head he just had a few superficial cuts that did not need stitched. and this pick is taken right where everything went down - idk - looks to me like he might have run into that tree?? especially since it turns out there was no grass or dirt on the back of his clothes at all - even though was held down and beaten

[Shins]

this was george the day after - he was not pudgy then and trained in MMA, and i posted the medical report a few pages back and they said on his head he just had a few superficial cuts that did not need stitched. and this pick is taken right where everything went down - idk - looks to me like he might have run into that tree?? especially since it turns out there was no grass or dirt on the back of his clothes at all - even though was held down and beaten

Let's not forget the lack of George's DNA anywhere on Trayvon. WHICH IS FUCKING IMPOSSIBLE IF HE SUPPOSEDLY BEAT HIS ASS.

[Ian 1]

He wasn't pudgey when this happened. We've already covered what would happen if TM ran. He'd be accused of being REALLY suspicious.


Besides, I didn't realize it was a fucking rule that you had to run when someone confronts you. I don't run.

You are just dead on, 'effen right. It is a basic assumption in Law that flight is an indication of guilt. Prosecutors bring that up in almost every trial. Had he run and then been shot, the presumption would have been that he was guilty of something. This boy had nothing to feel guilty about but was probably afraid that somebody would conclude that, if he ran, someone would think he did have. The only reason he had to run was fear. Remember 'Fight or Flight? Martin was being stalked by Zimmerman. Obviously, he didn't flee far or fast enough and he couldn't put up much of a fight against a creep with a gun that challenged him for being in a place where he had every right to be.

Geez!

[Harlette]

Let's not forget the lack of George's DNA anywhere on Trayvon. WHICH IS FUCKING IMPOSSIBLE IF HE SUPPOSEDLY BEAT HIS ASS.

i was reading an article today talking abput how the defense is claiming it was washed away by the rain, and it turns out he was coverd up w/ the medical plastic blanket w/ in 15 mins, and even if some was washed of his hands and underneath his nails, it would have run into the cuffs on his hoodie - and the hoodie is clean from dna too! and if was raining so hard that in 15 mins, then why didn't it was the blood from the cuts in georges head?

[mialynneb]

i was reading an article today talking abput how the defense is claiming it was washed away by the rain, and it turns out he was coverd up w/ the medical plastic blanket w/ in 15 mins, and even if some was washed of his hands and underneath his nails, it would have run into the cuffs on his hoodie - and the hoodie is clean from dna too! and if was raining so hard that in 15 mins, then why didn't it was the blood from the cuts in georges head?

I'd have to go back but Trayvon's body did not look like it had been rained on - at least heavily. And even if it hailed, if I beat someone up or clawed at them, whatever, there would have to be DNA somewhere on my body. Plus, we also know that a cut on the head bleeds like a bitch.

[dianalyn]

i was reading an article today talking abput how the defense is claiming it was washed away by the rain, and it turns out he was coverd up w/ the medical plastic blanket w/ in 15 mins, and even if some was washed of his hands and underneath his nails, it would have run into the cuffs on his hoodie - and the hoodie is clean from dna too! and if was raining so hard that in 15 mins, then why didn't it was the blood from the cuts in georges head?

I have always thought the picture of his bloody nose looks kind of silly, whose nose bleeds in a clump at the end like that? And if you feel blood running down your face/nose you do not wipe it away? Only if you are desperately trying to look more injured than you are. Again the force used can only equal what is necessary to stop the attack and you will never convince me that a 28 year old man needed to shoot an unarmed 17 year old kid to stop the fight.

Above all, he was an adult, he had agreed to take on the responsibility of neighborhood watch, had held the meeting, talked to the police liason, knew the rules about not engaging. He made the choice to follow a young man who did nothing wrong, the same as he had continuously harassed neighbors by reporting them for details of just living (parties, garage door open, kids playing). Everything that happened was an action instigated by GZ, that could have been prevented by him and led to TM death.

[dianalyn]

Would you more pleased if GZ sat there with a toothy grin on his face?

I would expect to see him show some type of remorse at the loss of a human life that ultimately he is responsible for? Even if he was in a life or death situation, which for the record I do not believe, is there some reason he cannot show emotion for the loss of a person so young? I have cried for hitting a dang rabbit.
But then again as he stated in his oh so enlightening interview with Sean Hannity, he feels that it was God's plan for this to happen.

[M Joy]

[Harlette]

[Miller22]

speak for yourself! as i keep getting told, i am doing it cuz i am a left wing, liberal media jackson lover

So, like I said, because you're a dem

I think there is evidence of the "peril" when one drinks/uses to the point that one cannot read or write at 19. What is your definition of "recreational drugs" by the way? I have seen much evidence that that is an oxymoron, to quote one of this threads finest. I have a very good friend, an attorney with a pedigree, who is finishing his first year of a 10 year prison sentence from using alcohol...hit and killed a motorcyclist. But....he was not addicted to alcohol.

That is not an isolated case, btw. Methinks you have some first hand knowledge of the subject.

So, the witness' education level is likely not attributed to outwardly behavior of her own choice (such as underaged drinking, smoking or recreational drug use - which is defined medically as "A drug used nonmedically for personal enjoyment") but more likely to be attributed to the income level of her family or school(s) she was attending. This is not at all a new or unknown phenomeonan, but as I'm certain you'll doubt see these studies for evidence:

http://www.irp.wisc.edu/publications...fs/foc262j.pdf
http://www.ascd.org/publications/boo...rformance.aspx
http://www.csos.jhu.edu/crespar/tech...s/Report52.pdf

Now, as has been stated: English is not this witness' first language and it has been stated (by the witness herself and by others) that she speaks 3 languages. This says quite a bit. Her inability to read cursive handwriting, and request to have a friend write from her dictation, reveals very little in today's highly technological society (as Ian1 has said.) I am 31 and to be honest, I can read cursive, but I'm not certain I could write it as I've not had to use it since at least middle school - if not elementary school.

As to the use of recreational drugs and/or alcohol resulting in addiction (and/or) peril, your response only moves to further solidify my original estimation. My knowledge stems from both academic exposure to addiction and personal, though not personal in the sense that I have been the one with an addiction.
While it is tragic that often times alcohol and drug related incidents occur with someone with whom has no history of abuse, there are far more instances of alcohol and we'll narrow it down to specifically weed (which is now legal in 2 states) use resulting in such instances. If it were the case that every person that used alcohol (or smoked weed) ended up with an addiction or in a situation of peril (such as you described) alcohol and drugs (ie weed) would be far more regulated, shouted down by the medical community and there would be far more studies out there. As it is, the DUI laws in most states are not as strong as many would wish them to be.

Truly, I recommend you stop projecting your addiction and past negative history with drugs and alcohol onto everyone else who is able to have a drink or smoke a joint without ending up in rehab, jail or the morgue.

He had a bwoody nose and some boo-boos on his head...if Trayvon had wanted to do some serious damage to GZ his face would have been smashed to a pulp and if he had been "smashing GZ's head onto the concrete" do you think GZ would have walked away with those little scratches? GZ was getting beat up like 10 year olds beat each other up at recess every day...if he hadn't been packing a weapon that's all it would have been. But he was, and TM ended up dead.

I've fallen and hit my head on a curb. After my the back of my head immediately swelled up at the impact point - to the size of a grapefruit and I seriously thought my brain was leaking out of my skull. I had a concussion, had trouble getting up, walking and was all around woozy. I'm having a really had time believing he was walking around looking 'concerned' or 'confused' as today's last witness stated if GZ's head was slammed into the sidewalk multiple times.

[marycontrary]

Stop the cursive writing debate. A major study was just concluded showing that a significant portion of the upcoming generation, is unable to write or read it. If necessary, they print. Penmanship is no longer taught in schools. It is a consequence of contemporary technology. It is more essential that they master the dominant means of contemporary communication. Texting, e-mails, etc. Who cares anyways? IPods have replaced the ball-point which replaced the fountain pen which replaced the ink well. The purpose is to communicate.

That may be a sad thing for us in the older generation 'cause it tells us that what we strived so hard to master is redundant. As for the younger generation, "the medium is the message." (Thank you Marshall McLuhan.) This girl is not illiterate. She is up-to-date.

I read that article. It called cursive an artistic form of writing. I can sort of see that. Today's cursive is not my parents or grandparents cursive. Back in the day they were taught techniques like palmer to teach beautiful cursive.

[PAMK]

[That may be a sad thing for us in the older generation 'cause it tells us that what we strived so hard to master is redundant. As for the younger generation, "the medium is the message." (Thank you Marshall McLuhan.) This girl is not illiterate. She is up-to-date.[/QUOTE]

God help us all if what you write is true.

[PAMK]

Nowhere has it been stated, she is unable to read cursive and maybe it was just that she could not read that persons writing, you are making assumptions. She also said she speaks three languages, do you?

Three languages? Ebonics and the other two?

[Miller22]

Three languages? Ebonics and the other two?

No you ignorant racist. She grew up speaking Creole and Spanish, English is her second (third) language.

Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3509141.html

[animosity]

Three languages? Ebonics and the other two?

creole, spanish and english.

[PAMK]

So by your own logic, you should have REFORMED THUG tattooed on your ass?

No no, RECOVERED THUG!

[dianalyn]

[That may be a sad thing for us in the older generation 'cause it tells us that what we strived so hard to master is redundant. As for the younger generation, "the medium is the message." (Thank you Marshall McLuhan.) This girl is not illiterate. She is up-to-date.[/QUOTE]

God help us all if what you write is true.

I don't believe God has the same racist views that you do, is as judgemental or spiteful as you are but to answer your question pendeja

Is cursive handwriting obsolete?
Parents and school administrators consider ditching the art of cursive writing so the teaching time can be used for other subjects.

Kids today are growing up in a texting, typing and emailing world. Sure, they take notes in class and some even scribble out the occasional phone message at home, but for the most part, their written communication is not written at all. Combine that trend with the pressure on schools to squeeze every last drop of instructional time into a child's school day and you have the latest educational dilemma. Is it a waste of precious class time for schools to continue to teach cursive handwriting to kids?

Those who want to drop cursive handwriting from classroom education argue that the subject is no longer necessary. Other than homework for penmanship class, what paperwork is turned in using cursive? And if you do need to write something by hand, wouldn't printing work just as well? You're not even required to use cursive for signatures — a printed signature is just as valid. And just think of the amount of instructional time that is wasted teaching and correcting children in the fine art of cursive handwriting. That's time that could be spent reading, strengthening math skills or teaching geography.

So with all of these arguments against it, why bother teaching cursive writing? For starters, cursive handwriting does have a few benefits over printed handwriting, namely ease and speed. Once kids master the subject, they can take notes using cursive much faster and more intuitively than when they print the letters. Some educational experts also argue that cursive handwriting is an excellent cognitive exercise, helping to improve motor skills and strengthen the connections between the brain and hands.

http://www.democraticunderground.com...ss=439x1083647

Night all

[mialynneb]

Three languages? Ebonics and the other two?

I realize giving you negative karma is a loss, but just know, you're an awful person. Troll or not, you're an awful person.

Having said that, I just watched the redirect because I was babysitting earlier. At first I didn't know how to perceive Rachel but as the defense dragged it on, I was more endeared to her. It's obvious, to me anyway, as I've stated why she lied about her age and her name. Look just here how some have referenced her. No one asks to be a part of something so awful especially concerning a friend. I'm proud of Rachel for standing her ground and not relenting. And just so we're all on the same page as far as race is concerned - I was perusing TSG and saw a comment with over 500 likes asking if "Precious was being paid in KFC and purple drank." Sounds like a bunch of creepy-ass crackers to me.

[Chauncy]

So when I was out for a run in my own neighborhood and was accosted by a sick pervert that then started chasing me in his car - if he would have caught up with me and I confronted him and he killed me - in your logic that was survival of the fittest? Maybe I looked suspicious running through the neighborhood and he just wanted to make sure I wasn't out causing trouble. Christ. Really?

ETA: Blech, nevermind, *youstrolling.gif* Sonofa.

Huh? you're a woman?

[Freethinker]

Nowhere has it been stated, she is unable to read cursive and maybe it was just that she could not read that persons writing, you are making assumptions. She also said she speaks three languages, do you?

She testified to the fact she couldn't read cursive nor write it.

[Miller22]

She testified to the fact she couldn't read cursive nor write it.

It's true, she did. And then West utilized it to demean her, trying to discredit her by making her look stupid. Asking a witness if they understand English (with negative implications) doesn't really play too well when 2 witnesses later is a woman using a Spanish interpreter.

[Freethinker]

I wish I could edit but I really wish PAMKKK would just go away. Does she really think this girl drinks/uses to the point that she can't read or write? I thought it was already pointed out that English is her third language.

The prosecution "tried" to make the jury to believe this, but with a cross exam, she testified English was #1!!

[Freethinker]

It's true, she did. And then West utilized it to demean her, trying to discredit her by making her look stupid. Asking a witness if they understand English (with negative implications) doesn't really play too well when 2 witnesses later is a woman using a Spanish interpreter.

Prosecutor tried to place English as #3, but English was #1. West was undoing this and proving this fact. Of course he'd ask if she understood English, because she did. That's not a negative implication.
As for the Spanish interpreter, not even the same thing. If our star witness didn't understand English, her questioning would have been in another language too!

[I doubt it]

She testified to the fact she couldn't read cursive nor write it.

She had someone else write the letter to Trayvon's mother in cursive, but she couldn't read it. That's kind of strange. If she was so up-to-date, maybe she could have typed it out.
As far as 3 languages, she also could have used an interpreter if she wanted to be certain that she was understood. People had trouble understanding her, and when asked to repeat, she said something else. Some things she made very clear, like not wanting to testify and coming back the next day.

Between what Dee-dee said and one of the other witnesses, it had rained heavily at sometime just before the shooting. When people in Florida say "heavy rain" they mean the rain comes down in buckets. Even if the rain had tapered off, the ground and grass would have been soaked, and that may account for the lack of DNA evidence.

About GZ's headwounds - there is a product called Nu-Skin or Liquid Bandage, used by people in jobs where they can't stop working because of a cut. It smells like SuperGlue and stings a bit, but stops the bleeding. I'm thinking this is what the paramedics used on George's head. In the reenactment video, he has Band-aids on his head.