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Thread: Joe Paterno (85) died of lung cancer

  1. #51
    Moderator puzzld's Avatar
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    This http://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/01/2...2312/#comments
    Jo Paterno is a Greek hero story for our generation. He was a great man, who tried to live an honorable life and inspired others. Then in one moment, he had to deal with a messy, embarrassing, unknown situation that he had no experience with and he chose ignorance and left children to be tortured. He died knowing that, and since he was a good man, he probably died hating himself and his own weaknesses.
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    lol at Nestle being some vicious smiter, she's the nicest person on this site besides probably puzzld. Or at least the last person to resort to smiting.
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    Why on earth would I smite you when I can ban you?

  2. #52
    The Dude abides. strmmrgrrl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chauncy View Post
    While i am not sad by this death i think some of you are relegating this as just a guy who coaches football. If that was the case, nobody would be sad. In that community Joe has done a lot of good outside of the football field for a long time. Thousands of players were impacted by him. He also was one of the first and only coaches that put academics ahead of athletics. Penn state players have had one of the highest graduation rates amongst college football players. He was very charitable to that university on the academic side. This is why this is a hot issue and people care and are sad by his death in that community. Not just because he coached football.
    But in the end he put athletics ahead of children.

    I appreciate everything he may have done for the community, but for me all of that is completely cancelled out by what he *didn't* do.
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  3. #53
    senior cunt emmieslost's Avatar
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    i'm sure this is a different context in my life than it is in other peoples but, strmmr, you hit the nail on the head.

    how is college football more important than these kids. the fact that this is even in question makes me ill.

  4. #54
    Rational Republican Chauncy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emmieslost View Post

    how is college football more important than these kids. the fact that this is even in question makes me ill.

    Are you so dopey to not recognize what is being talked about here? Next time, take a breath and actually read what the conversation is about before you spout off nonsense. Nobody is saying college football is more important than these kids.
    And affirmative action is a very nice term for racial discrimination against better-qualified white people in jobs, employment, promotions and scholarships, and college admittance.

  5. #55
    Rational Republican Chauncy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by strmmrgrrl View Post
    But in the end he put athletics ahead of children.

    I appreciate everything he may have done for the community, but for me all of that is completely cancelled out by what he *didn't* do.

    How do we know why he did what he did and what he put before the children. Could have been football. Could have been the university. Could have been his bosses. Could have been himself. Could have been Sandusky. Could have been nobody.

    People are forgetting he reported it. Do you think when he did, he knew it would get swept under the rug? He probably thought the bosses would take shit up with the police. So it doesn't logically add up that he did it for this or that because if that was the case, then he would have never reported it to his bosses.

    More likely, like i said before, he was a naive old man that had no grasp on the reality of it all. Hell he could have been told it was bs, or thought it was a non issue since nothing came of it. Does that make it right? Of course not, but he sure as hell isn't satan reborn.
    And affirmative action is a very nice term for racial discrimination against better-qualified white people in jobs, employment, promotions and scholarships, and college admittance.

  6. #56
    The Dude abides. strmmrgrrl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chauncy View Post
    Are you so dopey to not recognize what is being talked about here? Next time, take a breath and actually read what the conversation is about before you spout off nonsense. Nobody is saying college football is more important than these kids.
    Blame me, Chaunce. My view of this whole thing is broad and includes attitudes towards High School/Collegiate sports in general. I think I read somewhere that he "didn't want to rock the boat"? I believe he didn't pursue it because he did not want to tarnish the school or his team's image. I've been at the receiving end of that - that I shouldn't have said anything because someone else's life would be ruined where I would eventually get over it

    That's what pisses me off about the whole thing. People knew but chose not to say anything. Why? And the riots that occurred when they fired him. I don't care how much I idolize someone or how much they've done for the community or even for me personally, the minute I hear they aided and abetted a child molester/rapist (and by not pursuing it, that's what he did and thus allowed it to continue), anything worthwhile they've done in their life no longer means shit.
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    Getting arrested for coke in Vegas is like being found eating a chocolate bar in the willy wonka factory.

  7. #57
    Moderator bowieluva's Avatar
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    I agree with Strmmer. He even is on the record stating he didn't do anything to even talk to the school about the allegations for a period of time because he didn't want to ruin anyone's weekend. WTF.

  8. #58
    Certified Grumple Bottoms Ron_NYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by strmmrgrrl View Post
    Blame me, Chaunce. My view of this whole thing is broad and includes attitudes towards High School/Collegiate sports in general. I think I read somewhere that he "didn't want to rock the boat"? I believe he didn't pursue it because he did not want to tarnish the school or his team's image. I've been at the receiving end of that - that I shouldn't have said anything because someone else's life would be ruined where I would eventually get over it

    That's what pisses me off about the whole thing. People knew but chose not to say anything. Why? And the riots that occurred when they fired him. I don't care how much I idolize someone or how much they've done for the community or even for me personally, the minute I hear they aided and abetted a child molester/rapist (and by not pursuing it, that's what he did and thus allowed it to continue), anything worthwhile they've done in their life no longer means shit.
    Yea, but it was probably Emmie that said it.
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    Ron was the best part, hands down.

  9. #59
    Senior Member sarabei's Avatar
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    All that good he did was stamped out by his inaction. I call bullshit on the whole "I don't know what man rape is". I truly think he wanted to keep the shining star that was his university a shining star. I don't think he THOUGHT about other victims. Instead he went merrily along with his career. Working side by side with a pedophile that HIS silence enabled to keep torturing young children. Incomprehensible. That anyone can elevate this man to the level of adoration that has been heaped on him and NOT care more for the ruined lives about the lives left in tatters by his inability to more than his "legal" responsibilty disgusts me.

  10. #60
    Certified Grumple Bottoms Ron_NYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarabei View Post
    That anyone can elevate this man to the level of adoration that has been heaped on him and NOT care more for the ruined lives about the lives left in tatters by his inability to more than his "legal" responsibility disgusts me.
    You're gonna be a very busy bear.
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    Ron was the best part, hands down.

  11. #61
    Senior Member Cat Pajamas's Avatar
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    If I put myself in his position, here's what I come up with: Someone says to me, hey, that guy you've known and worked with for a really long time? I think I saw him doing something totally fucked up. Obviously no one wants to think a friend or even an acquaintance capable of shit like that, so there are some doubts. But you do the right thing and report it to the university so they can conduct an investigation. When nothing comes of it, I WOULD ASSUME it was because a thorough investigation showed no improprieties. Ultimately, it comes down to PSU dropping the ball. Not Joe Paterno's inaction (which was actually action, but didn't have the intended results).
    I agree with Chaunce, I think that Paterno probably died with a great deal of regret based on hindsight.

    I have seen the future and I'm fairly relieved to say, it looks nothing like me.

  12. #62
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    I can understand not wanting to get involved if you were in fear for your life, or if the offense was minor. But when you actually witness children being ass-molested, it's kind of hard to act like you're not involved and that you're better off just letting it go.

    You gotta' keep in mind that Paterno was a legacy, an institution, and an icon. He has been for decades. I'm sure he wanted nothing more than to continue on with his celebrity and the status quo, hoping beyond hope that this sex scandal would just disappear.

    I mean lets be honest, if you were a figurehead like this, would you want to be involved in any aspect of a sex scandal, even if you were on the right side? I'm sure half the people associate "Joe Paterno" with "pedophile" simply because his name gets more mention than the actual pedophile. Whether the man wanted it or not, he'll be remembered primarily for gay shit, just like Heath Ledger.
    I wear caps with flat brims and sunglasses with white frames. I...DROOL...

  13. #63
    Certified Grumple Bottoms Ron_NYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat Pajamas View Post
    If I put myself in his position, here's what I come up with: Someone says to me, hey, that guy you've known and worked with for a really long time? I think I saw him doing something totally fucked up. Obviously no one wants to think a friend or even an acquaintance capable of shit like that, so there are some doubts. But you do the right thing and report it to the university so they can conduct an investigation. When nothing comes of it, I WOULD ASSUME it was because a thorough investigation showed no improprieties. Ultimately, it comes down to PSU dropping the ball. Not Joe Paterno's inaction (which was actually action, but didn't have the intended results).
    I agree with Chaunce, I think that Paterno probably died with a great deal of regret based on hindsight.
    God forbid you actually look at the situation. Best thing to do after you hear he was involved in sports is to belittle his accomplishments, insult anyone who was a part of the community he was involved in (and had respect for the man), then dance on his grave.


    To be honest, the more that I hear people defend him, and the more that people who NEVER knew a thing about him tear him down...the more I can respect his situation.
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    Ron was the best part, hands down.

  14. #64
    Senior Member sarabei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat Pajamas View Post
    If I put myself in his position, here's what I come up with: Someone says to me, hey, that guy you've known and worked with for a really long time? I think I saw him doing something totally fucked up. Obviously no one wants to think a friend or even an acquaintance capable of shit like that, so there are some doubts. But you do the right thing and report it to the university so they can conduct an investigation. When nothing comes of it, I WOULD ASSUME it was because a thorough investigation showed no improprieties. Ultimately, it comes down to PSU dropping the ball. Not Joe Paterno's inaction (which was actually action, but didn't have the intended results).
    I agree with Chaunce, I think that Paterno probably died with a great deal of regret based on hindsight.
    Although you make valid points, I would buy that more if there weren't so many red flags about that pedo. He was under police investigation at one point, there were multiple rumors of indiscretions...that was dropped. The entire town was more concerned about their money making than doing what was right by these victims and they still are.

  15. #65
    Senior Member sarabei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron_NYC View Post
    You're gonna be a very busy bear.
    I don't get the bear reference??

  16. #66
    Moderator bowieluva's Avatar
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    I don't belittle his accomplishments. I think they're eclipsed by the choice he made to protect the school and his team's reputation over the lives of young boys.

  17. #67
    Senior Member sarabei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    I don't belittle his accomplishments. I think they're eclipsed by the choice he made to protect the school and his team's reputation over the lives of young boys.
    This.

  18. #68
    Certified Grumple Bottoms Ron_NYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    I don't belittle his accomplishments. I think they're eclipsed by the choice he made to protect the school and his team's reputation over the lives of young boys.
    Quote Originally Posted by sarabei View Post
    This.
    If that's true, then see if you can keep it up. Most don't.
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    Ron was the best part, hands down.

  19. #69
    Moderator bowieluva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron_NYC View Post
    If that's true, then see if you can keep it up. Most don't.
    What? What does this even mean? It's not disputable, he admitted that he took the reports of abuse and never passed them on to the proper authorities, as well as didn't immediately even contact the school officials because he 'didn't want to ruin anyone's weekend'. After that, they allowed the man to stay on in capacity as a peer mentor to the children he was repeatedly accused of molesting. Did you read the Grand Jury report? It's the most disgusting thing ever.

    Convenient that almost everyone died before anyone had to answer for this. Not only are these kids' lives fucked, but this is also how future child molesters are created. High fucking five.

  20. #70
    Senior Member sarabei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron_NYC View Post
    If that's true, then see if you can keep it up. Most don't.
    I don't think Paterno was inherently bad, I think he did a bad thing that allowed innocents to be hurt and Bowie is right...it eclipses the good he did.

  21. #71
    Certified Grumple Bottoms Ron_NYC's Avatar
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    I have just seen people talk mad shit, then when they're called on it they backpedal. Cause they made their minds up without knowing anything about the guy.
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    Ron was the best part, hands down.

  22. #72
    Senior Member sarabei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron_NYC View Post
    I have just seen people talk mad shit, then when they're called on it they backpedal. Cause they made their minds up without knowing anything about the guy.
    I will readily admit I never heard of him until this scandal broke. The more I heard about all the people who dropped the ball on this the less sympathy I had for any of them and their legacies.

  23. #73
    Moderator bowieluva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron_NYC View Post
    I have just seen people talk mad shit, then when they're called on it they backpedal. Cause they made their minds up without knowing anything about the guy.
    If by knowing anything, you mean 'have a vested interest in the Penn state college football team', the only people I see defending him are sports fanatics. I don't give a fuck about sports, and I'm sure he was good at what he did, but that doesn't excuse shit. Like OJ deserves to be known as a fucking murderer, not a Super Bowl champ.

    I mean, let's say I write the best book ever, and then walk in on my friend raping a five year old in the bathroom and say nothing. You know what? Fuck my book.

  24. #74
    senior cunt emmieslost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron_NYC View Post
    I have just seen people talk mad shit, then when they're called on it they backpedal. Cause they made their minds up without knowing anything about the guy.
    or you just assume everyones opinion is invalid because you assume they don't know what they're talking about or you cannot read.

    fuck this guy. i agree with what bowie and others are saying, defending this guy makes me sick. i don't care if he is dead or not, but i feel for the kids before i feel for this man.

  25. #75
    Certified Grumple Bottoms Ron_NYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarabei View Post
    I will readily admit I never heard of him until this scandal broke. The more I heard about all the people who dropped the ball on this the less sympathy I had for any of them and their legacies.
    I can understand that.

    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    If by knowing anything, you mean 'have a vested interest in the Penn state college football team', the only people I see defending him are sports fanatics. I don't give a fuck about sports, and I'm sure he was good at what he did, but that doesn't excuse shit. Like OJ deserves to be known as a fucking murderer, not a Super Bowl champ.

    I mean, let's say I write the best book ever, and then walk in on my friend raping a five year old in the bathroom and say nothing. You know what? Fuck my book.
    But that's not what happened.

    Also, O.J. has a Heisman Trophy, but he has no Super Bowl ring.
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    Ron was the best part, hands down.

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