Shelby Armstrong (16) death by "Dusting"

[daybreaksdisdain]

[quote author=miseryguts link=topic=5013.msg195392#msg195392 date=1172078470]
*applaud*

I agree just because she is talking NOW about what she thinks contributed to her daughters death doesn't mean she knew all along and was derelict in her duty as parent... It's a real shame and good for her to share her experience, kids NEED to know that things like this can and do kill, even to beautiful invincible 16 year olds.
[/quote]

Read the article

"Wendy Armstrong was clued-into her daughter's habit when Shelby totaled her car last fall in a one-vehicle accident. At the scene was a can of dust remover."

Apparently she did know.

[blunt.force.trauma]

Shit, I always said housework could kill you.  Hence, no "dusting" at my house.  Cobweb city there kids.

Seriously though, if the mom had any type of parenting skills, she would have built a trusting relationship with her kid starting at birth.  Teaching responsibility at a young age.  You don't just start parenting a kid at 15.  Yes, with puberty the relationship changes drastically, but I do believe if you instill values from a young age, you may have a better chance of surviving those horrible years with your kids.  Though, I haven't been there yet, so I'm really just speculating.  But my turn is coming very quickly.  I figure I've got about 3 good years left with him.  

[daybreaksdisdain]

[quote author=blunt.force.trauma link=topic=5013.msg195408#msg195408 date=1172079028]
Shit, I always said housework could kill you.  Hence, no "dusting" at my house.  Cobweb city there kids.

Seriously though, if the mom had any type of parenting skills, she would have built a trusting relationship with her kid starting at birth.  Teaching responsibility at a young age.  You don't just start parenting a kid at 15.  Yes, with puberty the relationship changes drastically, but I do believe if you instill values from a young age, you may have a better chance of surviving those horrible years with your kids.  Though, I haven't been there yet, so I'm really just speculating.  But my turn is coming very quickly.  I figure I've got about 3 good years left with him. 
[/quote]

You are right on target, you'll see 

[kris]

[quote author=daybreaksdisdain link=topic=5013.msg195403#msg195403 date=1172078871]
Read the article

"Wendy Armstrong was clued-into her daughter's habit when Shelby totaled her car last fall in a one-vehicle accident. At the scene was a can of dust remover."

Apparently she did know.
[/quote]

As I said, not necessarily, putting two and two together at this stage means nothing, a can of remover in the car after the accident with a daughters denials and trusting those denials might only have been shattered with her death now and presumeably more evidence of huffing this time too, hence two and two together.

Any money her kid told her it was a one off, first time she had tried and she got such a fright having an accident due to it that she wouldn't do it again, I wouldn't necessarily blame any parent for believing that....

[daybreaksdisdain]

[quote author=miseryguts link=topic=5013.msg195422#msg195422 date=1172079403]
As I said, not necessarily, putting two and two together at this stage means nothing, a can of remover in the car after the accident with a daughters denials and trusting those denials might only have been shattered with her death now and presumeably more evidence of huffing this time too, hence two and two together.

Any money her kid told her it was a one off, first time she had tried and she got such a fright having an accident due to it that she wouldn't do it again, I wouldn't necessarily blame any parent for believing that....

[/quote]

I would, it's the parent's job to make sure to the best of their ability that the teen isn't lying.  This girl died at home, mom  didn't want to deal with it and now it's cost her a daughter.  It's part of the job, be suspicious and checkup on your kids.  I know some people don't like it so I say to them, don't have kids.

[blunt.force.trauma]

[quote author=daybreaksdisdain link=topic=5013.msg195419#msg195419 date=1172079329]
You are right on target, you'll see 
[/quote]

I hope so!  :-D

[JustGretch]

[quote author=daybreaksdisdain link=topic=5013.msg195403#msg195403 date=1172078871]
Read the article

"Wendy Armstrong was clued-into her daughter's habit when Shelby totaled her car last fall in a one-vehicle accident. At the scene was a can of dust remover."

Apparently she did know.
[/quote]

Shit, sometimes I have a can of Dust Off in my car to blow out the A/C vents and the little cracks and crevices when I go totally anal on my car detailing. I better not crash with one in the car.

[daybreaksdisdain]

[quote author=JustGretch link=topic=5013.msg195440#msg195440 date=1172080147]
Shit, sometimes I have a can of Dust Off in my car to blow out the A/C vents and the little cracks and crevices when I go totally anal on my car detailing. I better not crash with one in the car.
[/quote]

Yeah, cause we'll talk about you if you do  :lol:

[kris]

[quote author=daybreaksdisdain link=topic=5013.msg195435#msg195435 date=1172079783]
I would, it's the parent's job to make sure to the best of their ability that the teen isn't lying.  This girl died at home, mom  didn't want to deal with it and now it's cost her a daughter.  It's part of the job, be suspicious and checkup on your kids.  I know some people don't like it so I say to them, don't have kids.
[/quote]

Well all I'm doing is not leaping to that assumption, kids do stupid things all the time they also keep secrets from their parents, sometimes they are good at it, sometimes it kills them, yes ideally parents need to care and be parents but I just wouldn't assume that this mother wasn't, just as I wouldn't necessarily blame a parent whose child died falling out of a tree if they knew their kid had climbed a tree in the past, a parent who lost a child in a car accident when they  had had an accident before, accidents happen and all a parent can do is try to alert them to dangers and to make good decisions for themselves. This parent has lost a child, something I can't even imagine and is doing her best to educate others to the dangers and I don't know enough about her relationship with her daughter to want to pile on accusations and blame on top of that.



So agree to disagree.

[SaKi]

[quote author=daybreaksdisdain link=topic=5013.msg195435#msg195435 date=1172079783]
I would, it's the parent's job to make sure to the best of their ability that the teen isn't lying.  This girl died at home, mom  didn't want to deal with it and now it's cost her a daughter.  It's part of the job, be suspicious and checkup on your kids.  I know some people don't like it so I say to them, don't have kids.
[/quote]

Amen. Applause for you dbd. ^^flat out intelligence right there. Thank god you're on this site! lol

[daybreaksdisdain]

[quote author=miseryguts link=topic=5013.msg195443#msg195443 date=1172080313]
Well all I'm doing is not leaping to that assumption, kids do stupid things all the time they also keep secrets from their parents, sometimes they are good at it, sometimes it kills them, yes ideally parents need to care and be parents but I just wouldn't assume that this mother wasn't, just as I wouldn't necessarily blame a parent whose child died falling out of a tree if they knew their kid had climbed a tree in the past, a parent who lost a child in a car accident when they  had had an accident before, accidents happen and all a parent can do is try to alert them to dangers and to make good decisions for themselves. This parent has lost a child, something I can't even imagine and is doing her best to educate others to the dangers and I don't know enough about her relationship with her daughter to want to pile on accusations and blame on top of that.



So agree to disagree.
[/quote]

I can agree to disagree.  My point is that this was no accident, so it's unfair to compare this mother to one's that actually lost their children in accidents. 

[kris]

[quote author=daybreaksdisdain link=topic=5013.msg195450#msg195450 date=1172080695]
I can agree to disagree.  My point is that this was no accident, so it's unfair to compare this mother to one's that actually lost their children in accidents. 
[/quote]

You suggest it was on purpose, like suicide? I didn't get that impression....

[daybreaksdisdain]

[quote author=miseryguts link=topic=5013.msg195452#msg195452 date=1172080821]
You suggest it was on purpose, like suicide? I didn't get that impression....

[/quote]

It's the roulette game people play with getting high.  You can die, if it happens it's not an accident.  She huffed, in the bath tub with water in it.  It caused her to black out and drown.  How is that an accident?  She did it to herself.

[merdeath]

i have done the whipped cream inhaling and the high only lasts a few seconds.  i'd never jump into a tub afterwards though

[MorbidlyLovely]

[quote author=blunt.force.trauma link=topic=5013.msg195408#msg195408 date=1172079028]
Shit, I always said housework could kill you.  Hence, no "dusting" at my house.  Cobweb city there kids.

Seriously though, if the mom had any type of parenting skills, she would have built a trusting relationship with her kid starting at birth.  Teaching responsibility at a young age.  You don't just start parenting a kid at 15.  Yes, with puberty the relationship changes drastically, but I do believe if you instill values from a young age, you may have a better chance of surviving those horrible years with your kids.  Though, I haven't been there yet, so I'm really just speculating.  But my turn is coming very quickly.  I figure I've got about 3 good years left with him.  
[/quote]

:rockon:  Well said.  My daughter is 17 and while we're very close and she lists me as her best friend on her MySpace and in surveys, I'm her best friend because I took the time to teach her about things like self-respect, responsibility, accountability, and was never too tired to listen to her when she wanted to talk (even when I was) and when I could tell something was bothering her, I relentlessly pulled it out of her.  She's never been in any trouble and still comes to me for advice about everything. 

How did I do such a great job?  I always envisioned what MY mother would have done...Then I did the exact opposite.  Worked like a charm!  :lol: :lol:

[kris]

[quote author=daybreaksdisdain link=topic=5013.msg195458#msg195458 date=1172081056]
It's the roulette game people play with getting high.  You can die, if it happens it's not an accident.  She huffed, in the bath tub with water in it.  It caused her to black out and drown.  How is that an accident?  She did it to herself.
[/quote]

You drive along and decide to retune your radio station for happy music to cheer yourself up, you take a risk, take your eyes off the road for what you believe is a calculated risk, no problem, done it before a thousand times, no problems, change the channel. look back see a deer in the road and instinctively turn the wheel, avoiding the deer but ending up wrapping yourself round a tree....accident. Yes calculated risk but accident, isn't life a calculated risk?

You find out that huffing cheers you up for a few seconds/minutes as you enjoy the high, do it loads of times, no problem, do it once in the bath because you enjoy the sensation of warm water with your high (??) and die...accident?

Are you suggesting that the second one isn't accidental death simply because it involves an illegal substance?

[daybreaksdisdain]

[quote author=miseryguts link=topic=5013.msg195476#msg195476 date=1172081575]
You drive along and decide to retune your radio station for happy music to cheer yourself up, you take a risk, take your eyes off the road for what you believe is a calculated risk, no problem, done it before a thousand times, no problems, change the channel. look back see a deer in the road and instinctively turn the wheel, avoiding the deer but ending up wrapping yourself round a tree....accident. Yes calculated risk but accident, isn't life a calculated risk?

You find out that huffing cheers you up for a few seconds/minutes as you enjoy the high, do it loads of times, no problem, do it once in the bath because you enjoy the sensation of warm water with your high (??) and die...accident?

Are you suggesting that the second one isn't accidental death simply because it involves an illegal substance?
[/quote]

Yes, that is what I am saying.  She knew this could kill her, it almost had already, remember the car accident?  Yet she continued. How many passes is she suppose to get?

[blunt.force.trauma]

[quote author=MorbidlyLovely link=topic=5013.msg195473#msg195473 date=1172081422]
:rockon:  Well said.  My daughter is 17 and while we're very close and she lists me as her best friend on her MySpace and in surveys, I'm her best friend because I took the time to teach her about things like self-respect, responsibility, accountability, and was never too tired to listen to her when she wanted to talk (even when I was) and when I could tell something was bothering her, I relentlessly pulled it out of her.  She's never been in any trouble and still comes to me for advice about everything.   

How did I do such a great job?  I always envisioned what MY mother would have done...Then I did the exact opposite.  Worked like a charm!   :lol: :lol:
[/quote]

Yup, I use the mother example too!    The funny thing is, my mother is always criticizing my parenting skills.  Yet, my 11 year old is a black belt in Tae Kwon Do and honor student.  And sits and talks to me just because.

[MorbidlyLovely]

[quote author=daybreaksdisdain link=topic=5013.msg195482#msg195482 date=1172081727]
Yes, that is what I am saying.  She knew this could kill her, it almost had already, remember the car accident?  Yet she continued. How many passes is she suppose to get?
[/quote]

  Shelby used huffing in the same manner than Jacob White used Russian roulette.  One too many pulls of the trigger (or, in this case, sprays of the can) and.....GAME OVER. 

Same outcome, different weapon of choice. 

RIP Shelby

[kris]

[quote author=excusesexcuses link=topic=5013.msg195479#msg195479 date=1172081658]

YUP, thats what im suggesting,,
[/quote]

Using a (non-handsfree) mobile phone is also an illegal act in this country now, soon we will probably be able to add to that, changing radio stations or eating and drinking as they also form a distraction to the driver ..... soon there will be NO MORE ACCIDENTS!!!  :-D

[Hellbettie]

[quote author=CrAzY JaY link=topic=5013.msg194892#msg194892 date=1172030904]
I CANT help it but say it again... HER MOM KNEW??? what the hell???  What a STUPID WAY TO GET HIGH!!! I think if i found my kid huffing or dusting or being a fuckin jackass, I think that I might actually buy them weed and say.. "HERE, you want to get high??? HERE, smoke a little weed, it'll last longer and you cant OD. you can thank me later!"
:2tongue: :2tongue: :2tongue: :2tongue: :2tongue:

Mom should be arrested for stupidity while parenting.
[/quote]

Couldn't agree more with that.  I know my mom knew I smoked weed in high school, but she never said anything because, hell I could have been on worse.  The worst you can do on pot is choke to death on your munchies.  If I ever find one of my kids huffing, I'll smack them upside their heads.  Some kid was huffing gas here a few years back...then went to light a cigarette.  You can see where that went.  They showed him all burned up and half dead on the news.  They ended up pulling the plug on him shortly thereafter. :(

[MorbidlyLovely]

[quote author=blunt.force.trauma link=topic=5013.msg195485#msg195485 date=1172081820]
Yup, I use the mother example too!     The funny thing is, my mother is always criticizing my parenting skills.  Yet, my 11 year old is a black belt in Tae Kwon Do and honor student.  And sits and talks to me just because.
[/quote]

:lol:  People always ask me how I managed to pull it off, especially as a single parent, and then they think I'm joking when I tell them the theory I used.  My mom also criticizes my parenting skills (and numerous other facets of my being) all the time.  I think she's just jealous of the closeness I have with my daughter, which she never had with me (nor did she want it, I suspect).  

I think having your kid want to just sit and talk with you is an amazing feeling.  It reinforces that you're doing a damned fine job with them when they actually enjoy your company.  Too bad more of the teen suicides on MDS couldn't have related with their parents on the same level our kids relate with us.  It would have saved a lot of young lives.  

[Hellbettie]

[quote author=MorbidlyLovely link=topic=5013.msg195505#msg195505 date=1172082367]
:lol:  People always ask me how I managed to pull it off, especially as a single parent, and then they think I'm joking when I tell them the theory I used.  My mom also criticizes my parenting skills (and numerous other facets of my being) all the time.  I think she's just jealous of the closeness I have with my daughter, which she never had with me (nor did she want it, I suspect). 

I think having your kid want to just sit and talk with you is an amazing feeling.  It reinforces that you're doing a damned fine job with them when they actually enjoy your company.  Too bad more of the teen suicides on MDS couldn't have related with their parents on the same level our kids relate with us.  It would have saved a lot of young lives. 

[/quote]

Definitely.  I'm very blunt and straight to the point with my kids, always have been.  Some parents try to use trickery to get their kids to behave, or bribe them.  I just pull no punches.  As a result my kid talks to me about everything, both kids do.  My mom used to get upset if I'd talk to her when she got home from work.  She was stressed, I know that now..but ya still need to keep lines of communication wide open for kids.  Drop everything, your kids only get one chance at life.

[daybreaksdisdain]

[quote author=miseryguts link=topic=5013.msg195490#msg195490 date=1172081942]
Using a (non-handsfree) mobile phone is also an illegal act in this country now, soon we will probably be able to add to that, changing radio stations or eating and drinking as they also form a distraction to the driver ..... soon there will be NO MORE ACCIDENTS!!!  :-D
[/quote]

Sadly we've become a society that does not encourage personal responsibility for one's actions.

Natural selection is battling against Big Brother.

[emmieslost]

[quote author=daybreaksdisdain link=topic=5013.msg195524#msg195524 date=1172082919]
Sadly we've become a society that does not encourage personal responsibility for one's actions.

Natural selection is battling against Big Brother.
[/quote]

word.