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Thread: Joseph McStay (40) was found dead in a desert grave, along with his wife and their two young children

  1. #201
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    Raisedbywolves, are you most fascinated by cases with psychological factors? You seem very knowledgeable and I like reading your posts. Your name is well suited for someone who is interested in pd's abd how they affect/impact crime. It's one of my fascinations too. If you find out anymore, please post, bump this thread.

  2. #202
    Senior Member raisedbywolves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildlifecamera View Post
    Raisedbywolves, are you most fascinated by cases with psychological factors? You seem very knowledgeable and I like reading your posts. Your name is well suited for someone who is interested in pd's abd how they affect/impact crime. It's one of my fascinations too. If you find out anymore, please post, bump this thread.
    Awww, thank you, that's very sweet! I do like cases that involve psychological factors and that aren't necessarily a clear cut case (were they abducted? did they start a new life? did they commit suicide?). I think human nature is fascinating and they 'why's' behind our behavior are so much more interesting than the behavior itself.

    I will most definitely post if I see/find out anything. Jump in on the conversation...it's interesting to get everyone's take on things. If this case interests you, you might also be interested in reading Maura Murray's case and Ray Gricar's case.

  3. #203
    Senior Member ImBatman!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisedbywolves View Post
    Awww, thank you, that's very sweet! I do like cases that involve psychological factors and that aren't necessarily a clear cut case (were they abducted? did they start a new life? did they commit suicide?). I think human nature is fascinating and they 'why's' behind our behavior are so much more interesting than the behavior itself.

    I will most definitely post if I see/find out anything. Jump in on the conversation...it's interesting to get everyone's take on things. If this case interests you, you might also be interested in reading Maura Murray's case and Ray Gricar's case.

    Any thoughts on my murder/suicide theory? Of course I have no evidence or facts so really it is just a theory.
    "Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; They listen with the intent to reply." ~ anonymous
    "Keep calm and sing Soft Kitty"
    "it is what it is!"

  4. #204
    Senior Member raisedbywolves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImBatman! View Post
    Any thoughts on my murder/suicide theory? Of course I have no evidence or facts so really it is just a theory.
    I can't totally rule a murder/suicide out, especially with the mental issues that appeared to be going on in the family. I don't just apply the mental issues to Summer either. If she had issues like some have speculated and he seemed to be going along with everything, then I question his mental status too. I wonder if they were feeding off each other's mental issues-maybe like they found a kindred spirit and they could let it all out with each other instead of hiding it the way they had to do in the real world?

    My general gut feeling though is that if they are dead it had to do with money and business and it was a murder of the whole family. As crazy as she was, I find it hard to believe that she would kill the kids and (as you mentioned) it is harder to stay hidden with kids and yet no one has found them. If they are alive, I kind of subscribe to the theory that one of them had a mental break and the other went happily along with it and they are living in some remote part of S. America or Africa. I'm about 65/35 on the idea that they are dead vs. in hiding.

  5. #205
    Senior Member Harlette's Avatar
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    hmm this is interesting but i don't think its as nefarious as the bloggers make it out to be. idk but i dont think the mkstay - brothers father - family had as much money as ppl thought that the family could use to hide themselves - it looks like the brother is in jail now for some kind of embezzlement and fraud - and i don't think joey mkstay made as much money as they have been saying - i sounds like either they mkstays got involved in some shady business that involved them going to mexico, or they were lured down by some sort of scam, maybe some thing medical or joey, though i lean more towards some thing illegal, thats the reason they would walk over because it would be much harder to prove they went, and its easier to bet back by walking if you are using fake id - which can be bought on the street any where this side of the border for a few hundred dollars, and what ever they were involed in went bad and they were killed.

    i just don't think if the were running away and found a new life, they would have left so much money in the bank account, and it seems they didn't know that much about the border if they had to google, so i bet some one was telling them how to get over, and prolly back w/ out being detected - plus i don;t think the joey would have left his other son w/ out a word, especially if he thought he was being abused

    sadly i think they were just dealing w/ the wrong pp, which is pretty easy to do in mexico, and it got them killed, it is not hard at all down there to kill a family and make sure its never found out

  6. #206
    Senior Member morbidT's Avatar
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    Joey's dad, Patrick McStay, is going on a rampage again on his FB. This guy is a real nutter.


    https://www.facebook.com/groups/search4mcstays/


    Quote Originally Posted by blighted star View Post
    ..... it wasn't anything personal, she just mistook him for a serial killer......

  7. #207
    Senior Member Harlette's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morbidT View Post
    Joey's dad, Patrick McStay, is going on a rampage again on his FB. This guy is a real nutter.


    https://www.facebook.com/groups/search4mcstays/
    he musta just made bail

  8. #208
    Senior Member morbidT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harlette View Post
    he musta just made bail
    The guy is a complete nutter. He goes off on people for giving him a compliment. Always on the defense. Reminds me of another nutter, who I shall not name, who a lot of us are familiar with.


    Quote Originally Posted by blighted star View Post
    ..... it wasn't anything personal, she just mistook him for a serial killer......

  9. #209
    Administrator Olivia's Avatar
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    The whole family is/was so dysfunctional.

  10. #210
    Administrator Olivia's Avatar
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    My copy of the mcstay book arrived. Can't wait to read!

  11. #211
    Senior Member raisedbywolves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olivia View Post
    My copy of the mcstay book arrived. Can't wait to read!
    Let us know what you think and if it's worth us reading it!

  12. #212
    Administrator Olivia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisedbywolves View Post
    Let us know what you think and if it's worth us reading it!
    I'm about 80 pages in. It's very poorly edited and published. Also a lot of the 'sources' are not very reliable.
    The author quotes email that the mcstays had written but just copies the body of text. No other details like dates/times/recipients are given. So it could be made up. But he includes the date/recipient email info for joeys business emails.

    The author really doesn't like mike mcstay and thinks he knows more than he lets on. A few things I've read that are interesting:

    - summer's self confessed 'best friend' McGyver had been helping them paint their house (while they sat back and didn't help). He had one day left of painting and summer texted him to postpone. And then they went missing.
    - summer had been told McGyver that she had planned a birthday party for one of the boys at chuck e cheese on the Saturday they went missing. The author couldn't find anyone who had been invited and no trace that the party was ever planned.
    - mike mcstay was asked to go and check on the family by Patrick. He said he was too busy and actually lied about going. When they actually did call the cops, the police failed to secure the house and car as a crime scene. Joey's mother went to the house and was found by McGyver to be frantically cleaning and looking for bank statements.
    - mike mcstay apparently also intercepted cheques that were payment for joeys work at his fountain business after he disappeared.

    Sorry for any typos - I'm phone posting
    Last edited by Olivia; 06-25-2013 at 03:25 PM. Reason: error fixed

  13. #213
    Administrator Olivia's Avatar
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    Also you can tell the author thinks summer orchestrated the disappearance. I'm not up to what he thinks happened yet. But there's a section about her resentment of joeys son from the first marriage. She apparently resented his ex wife and having to care for the first son. But that goes against the CPS info we discussed where she tried to help joey get custody?

  14. #214
    Senior Member Harlette's Avatar
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    omg ty olivia for briefing us on that book!

  15. #215
    Senior Member raisedbywolves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olivia View Post
    Also you can tell the author thinks summer orchestrated the disappearance. I'm not up to what he thinks happened yet. But there's a section about her resentment of joeys son from the first marriage. She apparently resented his ex wife and having to care for the first son. But that goes against the CPS info we discussed where she tried to help joey get custody?
    Thanks for all the info on the book. It sounds like the author thinks Summer was trying to play both sides of the coin by resenting the son from the other marriage and then also going along with the CPS investigation. Does he give any evidence to prove he resented the son?

  16. #216
    O rly? Angiebla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisedbywolves View Post
    Thanks for all the info on the book. It sounds like the author thinks Summer was trying to play both sides of the coin by resenting the son from the other marriage and then also going along with the CPS investigation. Does he give any evidence to prove he resented the son?
    This goes along with her diagnosis of borderline personality disorder. They go back and forth on issues.

    I want something good to die for, to make it beautiful to live.~Queens of the Stone Age

  17. #217
    Administrator Olivia's Avatar
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    Okay I am finished the book, except for the appendices.

    I made an error in my earlier post and have fixed it - it was JOEY'S mother, not Summer's that went to the McStay house after they disappeared and cleaned up.

    The book was disappointing. There were a ton of errors, including one where the author speaks about something that happened before they went missing in 2012. They went missing in 2010. I know it's a typo, but how hard is it to check?

    The whole Dan Kavanaugh thing is weird. He transferred around 12-15k out of Joey's account in the months after he died. He also sent clients of Earth Inspired Products (Joey's company) emails asking them to redirect payment to his (DK's) father and grandfather's accounts. There was a payment of $81k made by a Saudi Arabian customer for a fountain and no record of where payment went to can be found. DK met and spoke to the author but backed off when the author asked questions about payments etc. DK is/was also going to write a book about the whole case but I think that may have fizzled out.

    There's a section on sightings in Mexico. Apparently a lot of the tips were sent to the McStay family website (which is run by Mike McStay) and none of them were ever followed up. One of the sightings was from a Walmart in Cabos where the person says he reported a sighting of Joseph at the store and nothing was followed up. He talks about how the Cabos Walmart is one that only locals use - this isn't true. I'm an Australian and went there on my last trip to Mexico - it's on a main road. Odd. And when the author contacted the sightor (is that a word lol?!?), he then refers to Joseph as Joey, and the author questions if the sightor had met Joey since the sighting and become friends?

    One of the absolute weirdest things in the book is where they talk about an email that Summer received from a website called something like hrnyhousewives.com. It's pretty clearly spam, but pages are spent talking about the possibility that she was involved in amateur porn.

    I think the whole thing regarding Joey's mother and Mike McStay visiting the house and cleaning it out is just so odd. Apparently months after the disappearance, they called Summer's sister and mother and told them they were going to the house and they were welcome to meet them there. When Summer's family arrived, EVERYTHING had been stripped and sold. Mike and mother said it was being sold to meet child support committments for Joey's older son? Summer's mother was so distressed at the state of the house and the situation that she was hospitalised. Joey's mother apparently sold Summer's things and then told her family that 'she won't need them where she is' (paraphrasing but basically those words).

  18. #218
    Administrator Olivia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisedbywolves View Post
    Thanks for all the info on the book. It sounds like the author thinks Summer was trying to play both sides of the coin by resenting the son from the other marriage and then also going along with the CPS investigation. Does he give any evidence to prove he resented the son?
    Do you mean if the step-father resented the son? There is a small amount of info in the book about him. He isnt named but apparently someone with the exact same name as him has a criminal record for abuse. I didn't know this either but Joey's first wife cheated on him and became pregnant with another child while they were still married. Joey offered to raise the kid as his own but that didn't work out obviously.

    And another odd thing. Summer was married before and was STILL living with her exhusband when she started dating Joey and became pregnant with Gianni. There were apparently questions as to if Joey was the kid's bio dad or not.
    Last edited by Olivia; 06-25-2013 at 03:45 PM.

  19. #219
    Senior Member ImBatman!'s Avatar
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    Thanks for all the info from the book!! I think I'll get it just to see if I can glean anymore info...
    "Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; They listen with the intent to reply." ~ anonymous
    "Keep calm and sing Soft Kitty"
    "it is what it is!"

  20. #220
    Administrator Olivia's Avatar
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    Anyone checked out Rick Baker's blog lately.? Apparently it was visited by someone at the Department of Homeland Security who visited this post http://rickgbaker.blogspot.com.au/20...this-post.html

    And apparently Mike McStay has visited the site 95 times?!

  21. #221
    Senior Member ImBatman!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olivia View Post
    Anyone checked out Rick Baker's blog lately.? Apparently it was visited by someone at the Department of Homeland Security who visited this post http://rickgbaker.blogspot.com.au/20...this-post.html

    And apparently Mike McStay has visited the site 95 times?!
    95 times? That is interesting! This case just keeps adding twists and turns.
    "Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; They listen with the intent to reply." ~ anonymous
    "Keep calm and sing Soft Kitty"
    "it is what it is!"

  22. #222
    Administrator Olivia's Avatar
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    And there are some interesting emails posted on there from James Spring who I think may be a PI?

  23. #223
    Senior Member ImBatman!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olivia View Post
    And there are some interesting emails posted on there from James Spring who I think may be a PI?
    Hmmm...rethinking my theory that they may be dead. What if they really are in witness protection? Or has that been dis-proven and I missed it?
    "Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; They listen with the intent to reply." ~ anonymous
    "Keep calm and sing Soft Kitty"
    "it is what it is!"

  24. #224
    Senior Member raisedbywolves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olivia View Post
    Do you mean if the step-father resented the son? There is a small amount of info in the book about him. He isnt named but apparently someone with the exact same name as him has a criminal record for abuse. I didn't know this either but Joey's first wife cheated on him and became pregnant with another child while they were still married. Joey offered to raise the kid as his own but that didn't work out obviously.

    And another odd thing. Summer was married before and was STILL living with her exhusband when she started dating Joey and became pregnant with Gianni. There were apparently questions as to if Joey was the kid's bio dad or not.
    Thanks for the all the book info. I meant was there any evidence presented to show that Summer resented the son....I made a typo and put he instead of she.

    Well, after the fact it's obvious that Gianni is Joey's...they look just alike to me.

  25. #225
    Administrator Olivia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisedbywolves View Post
    Thanks for the all the book info. I meant was there any evidence presented to show that Summer resented the son....I made a typo and put he instead of she.

    Well, after the fact it's obvious that Gianni is Joey's...they look just alike to me.
    There were some 'emails' that Summer had sent about the situation with the son (his name is Jonah). But they were the emails that I think were dodgy - they didn't list any details besides the body text. No recipient, date, time details etc. I don't know why Rick Baker presented the emails like that - it makes them look made up. He included all the data for Joey's business emails, but not for Summer's? Weird.

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