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Thread: Man gets his kicks by convincing depressed people to commit suicide in chatrooms

  1. #51
    Moderator bowieluva's Avatar
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    Re: Man gets his kicks by convincing depressed people to commit suicide in chatr

    Sorry, I think seeking out mentally ill people and playing up to their demons is a crime. He's a sick asshole.

  2. #52
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    Re: Man gets his kicks by convincing depressed people to commit suicide in chatr

    [quote author=g r ee n ey e s link=topic=22858.msg1427202#msg1427202 date=1256588445]
    Without the ability to read his posts we know that:

    a) He impersonated himself as a female nurse and gave advice to people where he is cleary not qualified.

    b) He himself had his license revoked as a registered nurse for mental issues regarding suicide.

    I am not saying that he is not or should not be responsible for his actions, I am saying this fool was sick to begin with, he belongs in a straight jacket. He was openly pro-suicide and admitted it was a fetish for him. Yeah, I am gonna say that it should have been taken more seriously when a registered nurse has these issues. Free speach really has nothing to do with it. Ultimately if he was saying anything on a suicide board that was encouraging people, I have a strong feeling their board moderators would put some type of end to that.

    [/quote]

    As far as i know he just used email and personal messages.
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  3. #53
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    Re: Man gets his kicks by convincing depressed people to commit suicide in chatrooms

    I am all for him being sent someplace where he has to deal with what he did. Somehow I think a psychiatric ward is the most appropriate place.


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    And apparently you fuck the mods here.

  4. #54
    Senior Member deeply shaded's Avatar
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    Re: Man gets his kicks by convincing depressed people to commit suicide in chatr

    [quote author=lulupop link=topic=22858.msg1427348#msg1427348 date=1256593395]
    As far as i know he just used email and personal messages.
    [/quote]

    Lulu have you heard any more about this?
    Quote Originally Posted by beli View Post
    kim kardashian - made famous for having a sex tape, should die in a fire
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    Re: Man gets his kicks by convincing depressed people to commit suicide in chatr

    [quote author=deeply shaded link=topic=22858.msg1510458#msg1510458 date=1263891748]
    Lulu have you heard any more about this?
    [/quote]

    I contacted the police and they wanted me to ring them for an interview but i can't afford to do that as they are from the U.S and i'm in England, i asked him if he could ring me but he said just to send any info including the Emails through on Word...but i don't have word  :oops: so haven't done it...i feel bad but i doubt my little amount of evidence will make a difference. :roll:
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  6. #56
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    Re: Man gets his kicks by convincing depressed people to commit suicide in chatr

    [quote author=lulupop link=topic=22858.msg1510679#msg1510679 date=1263919578]
    I contacted the police and they wanted me to ring them for an interview but i can't afford to do that as they are from the U.S and i'm in England, i asked him if he could ring me but he said just to send any info including the Emails through on Word...but i don't have word  :oops: so haven't done it...i feel bad but i doubt my little amount of evidence will make a difference. :roll:
    [/quote]

    If they want it badly enough they'll make sure you have what you need to get it to them I'd think. I wouldn't worry about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by beli View Post
    kim kardashian - made famous for having a sex tape, should die in a fire
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    Re: Man gets his kicks by convincing depressed people to commit suicide in chatrooms

    My dad showed me this article today, the look on his face made me 

    A bit more info on William Melchert-Dinkel


    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article7069144.ece

    Mark Drybrough received his final e-mail at 10.32am. It asked: “Are you all right?” Seconds later he switched off his computer, walked upstairs to his bedroom and hanged himself from a decorator’s ladder.

    When Mr Drybrough’s sister later read through the months of e-mails and chat-room posts stored on the computer, it appeared that the message was the culmination of a suicide pact with a young female nurse.

    His mother, Elaine Drybrough, 61, of Coventry, cannot bring herself to read the exchanges in which her 32-year-old son, an IT technician, was persuaded to take his own life. She said: “My daughter told me that a nurse called Li encouraged Mark to kill himself and said that some people had allowed her to watch before.”

    Her son had suffered from depression since a bout of glandular fever about eight years earlier. Later he had mental illness diagnosed but his family was not aware that he was suicidal.

    In the months before his death he became increasingly withdrawn from his friends and family, spending hours every day using the internet on his home-built computer. “When Mark was ill I noticed he was using the computer a lot and I was worried what he was doing,” Mrs Dryborough said.

    She was right to be concerned. Police believe that the “young woman” who befriended him was a notorious “suicide voyeur” who has been unmasked by two British women.

    William Melchert-Dinkel, 47, an American nurse with a loving family, allegedly spent years posing as a twentysomething woman while trawling the internet for people he could persuade to kill themselves while he watched.

    Investigators believe that he may have contacted more than 100 people across the world and that he was involved with at least five who killed themselves. He has allegedly admitted to American police that he was involved in at least four deaths, in addition to that of Mr Drybrough. He is expected to be charged within weeks.

    Mrs Drybrough said: “This man appointed himself Mark’s executioner. He whispered in his ear each time he logged on to the computer. Because of his medical experience he knew exactly who he was looking for, what he was doing, the buttons he needed to push.”

    Mr Melchert-Dinkel has been exposed by Celia Blay, 64, who tracked him down after police refused to intervene. It was a remarkable achievement for a grandmother who confesses to having little knowledge of the internet and who relies on her son for technical support. Her internet use on the family computer in the Wiltshire village of Maiden Bradley had been confined largely to researching her interest in medieval history.

    Four years ago a teenage friend confided that she had entered a death pact with a young nurse. “I was absolutely furious that such a sweet and innocent girl was being persuaded to kill herself,” Mrs Blay said. She was particularly concerned that the girl had not received any counselling or medical treatment usually recommended for those who feel suicidal.

    Four hours before the planned suicide, Mrs Blay discovered that the pact was with an internet user known as Li Dao who had previously agreed similar pacts. She convinced the teenager to delay her plans and the girl is alive today.
    Mrs Blay contacted members of internet groups used by Li Dao and discovered that she used the pseudonyms Falcon Girl and Cami D to persuade people to enter pacts in which they would hang themselves in front of internet webcams and watch each other die. At the crucial moment there was always a problem with Li Dao’s webcam so that it was just her watching.

    “It took months and months to collect the evidence but when I went to the police [close to her home, which was then at Maidenhead, Berkshire] they just said if it bothers you, look the other way,” she said.

    A friend of Mrs Blay, Kat Lowe, a mother of two from Wolverhampton, contacted Li Dao to discover the predator’s identity. It was a risky decision as Ms Lowe, who has a troubled personal background, was feeling suicidal. But her condition gave the insight needed to gain Mr Melchert-Dinkel’s trust.

    Ms Lowe, 37, said that even though she was aware what Li Dao’s methods were, she was persuaded to buy a rope and alcohol. “I was really scared he might talk me into hanging myself,” she said.


    She obtained information that allowed Mr Melchert-Dinkel’s home address to be traced. He told her that his work in the emergency room of an American hospital had given him expert knowledge of the most effective ways to kill oneself.

    He described watching an unidentified man hang himself in Birmingham in about 2006. “He asked me to watch as he was all alone,” Mr MelchertDinkel wrote. “I didn’t want to, thinking it was some perverted ploy of his, but after many hours of talking I agreed to watch him die so he would not die alone.”

    He later admitted that he had made previous suicide pacts but promised Ms Lowe that he was finally ready to carry out his part of the agreement. “I can also die on Friday the 20th too! that would be very good day for me as the next day my parents will be here of course and it wont happen,” he wrote. “I hope we can talk that day and go somewhere close to the same time if possible. It’s good to have support at this time of need ... hugs and love.”

    Mrs Blay accepts that it is impossible to know how many of Mr Melchert-Dinkel’s contacts would have killed themselves without his encouragement. “But he made sure it happened,” she said. “He made it seem so logical, that it was the only way out.

    “I think his targets were in the triple figures and I would not be surprised if the number of deaths was in the double figures.” She believes he may not have wanted everyone to die, as he was drawn to the “cusp between life and death” and the methods of suicide he recommended were neither foolproof nor quick.

    Mrs Blay’s file of evidence was rejected by British police and the FBI said that it did not have the power to investigate. Police in Mr Melchert-Dinkel’s home city of St Paul, Minnesota, agreed to take the case.

    Mrs Blay says that she is aware of several deaths that occurred between the time she identified Mr Melchert-Dinkel and police seizing his computer. He is suspected of entering a pact with Nadia Kajouji, an 18-year-old Canadian student who killed herself in 2008.

    During the online conversation with Nadia he allegedly advised her on the best length and diameter of rope for hanging and said that he wanted to watch. In one message he wrote: “If you wanted to [go] for hanging we could have done it together on line so it would not have been so scary for you.” She later drowned herself.

    On the day that Mr Melchert-Dinkel was first arrested he was admitted to hospital. His medical notes record that he told nurses that he was addicted to suicide chat rooms and had “posed as a 28 yo female formed suicide pacts with some that he had no attention [sic] of following thru . . . 4 yrs suicide fetish offered medical advice for assisted suicide x2”.

    Back in Coventry, Mrs Drybrough is angry that her son’s “executioner” was able to operate for so many years. “If it were not for Celia, he would still be at it. How many people have died?”

    Deadly advice

    Edited exchange between Kat Lowe (KL) and William Melchert-Dinkel, using the name Falcoln Girl (FG)

    MP warns of internet dangers after suicides
    KL: The four people you think hanged themselves . . . did they do it while you were online?

    FG: No, just one. He asked me to watch as he was all alone.

    I didn’t want to, thinking it was some perverted ploy of his, but after many hours of talking I agreed and watch he die so he would not die alone . . . he lived in Birmingham Eng.

    KL: When the guy in Birmingham went, why did you not go too?

    FG: I was put on a new drug . . . see if I could get better.

    KL: I am scared.

    FG: I know . . . I agreed to help you cause we both know each of us is sincere about needing to die. That is why I agreed to watch/help you if needed it.

    KL: I have tried cutting my wrists.

    FG: That is why I really suggested the rope cause it’s so much more dependable.
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  8. #58
    Senior Member irishkat's Avatar
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    Re: Man gets his kicks by convincing depressed people to commit suicide in chatrooms

    The free speech aspect of this really speaks to me.  I am a huge advocate of free speech in almost every form, right down to things that make my stomach turn.  I have to protect the most vile forms of free speech to protect the right.  That being said, however, there is a difference in putting out information on how to build a bomb, how to hang yourself, how to cut your wrists, how to cover up a murder, etc (all of which I could easily find on the internet or in the library, or even in some well known novels) and knowingly trying to convince sick people to go ahead and off themselves.  This borders on facilitating a murder in my opinion.  This guy deserves some punishment.  I don't think convincing someone to kill themselves has anything to do with free speech.  It's just wrong, no two ways about it.

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    Re: Man gets his kicks by convincing depressed people to commit suicide in chatrooms

    [quote author=irishkat link=topic=22858.msg1569540#msg1569540 date=1269114521]
    The free speech aspect of this really speaks to me.  I am a huge advocate of free speech in almost every form, right down to things that make my stomach turn.  I have to protect the most vile forms of free speech to protect the right.  That being said, however, there is a difference in putting out information on how to build a bomb, how to hang yourself, how to cut your wrists, how to cover up a murder, etc (all of which I could easily find on the internet or in the library, or even in some well known novels) and knowingly trying to convince sick people to go ahead and off themselves.  This borders on facilitating a murder in my opinion.  This guy deserves some punishment.  I don't think convincing someone to kill themselves has anything to do with free speech.  It's just wrong, no two ways about it.
    [/quote]
    Free speech doesn't cover using it to endanger lives. Clear and Present Danger stuff.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clear_and_present_danger


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    Re: Man gets his kicks by convincing depressed people to commit suicide in chatrooms

    [quote author=irishkat link=topic=22858.msg1569540#msg1569540 date=1269114521]
    The free speech aspect of this really speaks to me.  I am a huge advocate of free speech in almost every form, right down to things that make my stomach turn.  I have to protect the most vile forms of free speech to protect the right.  That being said, however, there is a difference in putting out information on how to build a bomb, how to hang yourself, how to cut your wrists, how to cover up a murder, etc (all of which I could easily find on the internet or in the library, or even in some well known novels) and knowingly trying to convince sick people to go ahead and off themselves.  This borders on facilitating a murder in my opinion.  This guy deserves some punishment.  I don't think convincing someone to kill themselves has anything to do with free speech.  It's just wrong, no two ways about it.
    [/quote]
    You can say you "hate border jumpers, and Mexicans are dirty filthy animals" and it's protected.
    Once you start arranging to kill one, it's not protected speech.

    ETA: I see it's been covered.
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    Re: Man gets his kicks by convincing depressed people to commit suicide in chatrooms

    [quote author=Ron_NYC link=topic=22858.msg1569565#msg1569565 date=1269115331]
    You can say you "hate border jumpers, and Mexicans are dirty filthy animals" and it's protected.
    Once you start arranging to kill one, it's not protected speech.

    ETA: I see it's been covered.
    [/quote]

    I think we're all on the same page.

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    Re: Man gets his kicks by convincing depressed people to commit suicide in chatrooms

    [quote author=irishkat link=topic=22858.msg1569597#msg1569597 date=1269117861]
    I think we're all on the same page.
    [/quote]
    Yea, I saw your post again. You're a sensible noob, I should have known better. :oops:
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    Re: Man gets his kicks by convincing depressed people to commit suicide in chatrooms

    Looks like he is in court today charged with with two counts of aiding suicides.

    An article from the bbc about the case

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8683199.stm

    A former nurse is to appear in court in the US charged with two counts of aiding suicide over the internet. But the case, which is one of the first of its kind, only came about because of the diligence and detective work of a woman in the UK.

    For more than a year and a half, Celia Blay, a 65-year-old from a small town in Wiltshire, delved into the world of online chat rooms with suicide themes, on the trail of someone she believed was hiding their identity in order to establish friendships with vulnerable young people, eventually encouraging them to end their own lives.

    That person, William Melchert-Dinkel, will appear in court on Tuesday in Minneapolis, US, charged with with two counts of aiding suicides.

    The charges stem from the deaths of 32-year-old Mark Drybrough, who took his own life in Birmingham, England, in 2005, and 18-year-old student Nadia Kajouji, who died in Ottawa, Canada, some three years later.

    It is believed to be the first case of its kind in North America - and only one of a handful that have been brought across the globe.

    Suicide pact

    It was 2006 when Ms Blay received a message from a 17-year-old from South America whom she had befriended online.



    Celia Blay tracked down Mr Melchert-Dinkel with the help of friends online
    "Out of the blue, she told me she was in a suicide pact with a young woman she had met on the internet. She told me she was going to take her own life in four days' time.

    "I tried to dissuade her but she said she didn't want to let the other girl down."

    Ms Blay's friend, who was a regular user of online suicide-related groups, had been depressed for some time.

    "I had given her the same advice you would give a depressed teenager, advising her to talk to friends, talk to a doctor, or a priest," Ms Blay told the BBC News website.

    She says she persuaded her friend to give her the name of the young woman she believed she had made a pact with.

    The name - "Li Dao" - was then checked on private suicide-related groups and message boards by Ms Blay.

    News of several other "pacts" spread across the message boards, and "very shortly about half a dozen people were comparing notes," she says.


    WORLDWIDE PROBLEM

    In 2006, Australia became the first country to criminalise such sites. According to a report in 2009: Legal Bans on Pro suicide websites, the decision was highly controversial.
    "Concerns were expressed that the law cast the criminal net too widely; inappropriately interferes with the autonomy of those who wish to die; and has jurisdiction limitations with off-shore websites remaining largely immune," the report stated.

    It also pointed out that: "Some organisations argue that the elderly or terminally ill should have the right to access this information." In Australia, like most other countries, taking your own life is not illegal.

    Luke Neal, one of the report's authors, said that as far as he knew no prosecutions had yet been made.

    At the end of last year, MPs in Canada overwhelmingly backed a motion put forward by MP Harold Albrecht to revise the criminal code legislating against aiding and abetting suicide, to reflect technological advances.

    Mr Albrecht, who was prompted to act by the death of Ms Kajouji, told the BBC: "I don't believe that easy answers exist, and I don't expect these efforts to make easy answers available. Online suicide predators operate across borders and hide their identity."

    The first recorded case of two or more people using the web to form a suicide pact was in Japan in 2000. Since then, the country has introduced stricter monitoring of suicide websites.

    And last year South Korea, which has also witnessed a spate of online suicide pacts in the past, announced that it would ask internet portals to ban websites promoting suicide and improve their tracking systems to delete any wording encouraging people to kill themselves.

    "It appears those people had been in apparent suicide pacts with the same person, and in some cases they had been scheduled for the same time," says Ms Blay.

    Details and language contained in some of the communication - and in some cases pictures - led Ms Blay to believe that "Li Dao" - who is now thought to have used other aliases, including "Cami" and "Falcon Girl" - was responsible for entering into pacts with no intention of carrying them out.

    Detective work

    "I gathered about 20 messages and took them to my local police," she says. "But they said they couldn't investigate because the sources were anonymous.

    Eventually some did agree to reveal their identities, but still, she says, she got nowhere.

    Finally, Ms Blay and a friend set up an "online sting". They established contact with the person they believed to be "Li Dao".

    Friends she had met online helped her track down IP and email addresses used by "Li Dao", which eventually led to William Melchert-Dinkel, a husband and father in Minnesota.

    While the charges - which each carry a maximum penalty of 15 years in prison - stem from two deaths, Mr Melchert-Dinkel estimates that he helped a number of other people commit suicide, according to papers filed with a court in Minnesota.

    Those same papers say he "admitted to being an internet advisor in suicide methods" because of his background as a nurse, and that he later stopped because of "moral, ethical and legal issues."

    Minnesota's law does not specifically address assisted suicides involving the internet, or suicides that occur out of state, and legal experts have pointed out that the case faces many challenges.

    Dan Reidenberg, executive director of Minnesota's Suicide Awareness Voices of Education, said the case was unprecedented and would focus on the challenging legal issues surrounding free speech and the internet.

    "There is the issue of how suggestions and comments are interpreted. Everyone has a right to say what they want to say. The defence might argue that what another person does with this is up to them."

    Legal experts have also pointed out potential problems with jurisdiction: one death occurred in Canada, the other in the UK, while Mr Melchert-Dinkel is alleged to have offered advice in the borderless realms of the internet.

    Many countries have laws against assisting suicide, but most of these pre-date the internet era.


      There are alternatives - medical help, therapies and more importantly the help of family and friends

    Paul Kelly, Papyrus
    "In most countries, the law is vague - you have to do a lot to prosecute," says Paul Kelly of Papyrus, a charity in the UK that works to prevent young people taking their own lives.

    "It is related to the whole question of freedom of speech. The difficulty is how the promotion of suicide is defined - after all, there are books, plays and films that deal with the issue.

    "In the UK, for example, you need to prove that there is a direct connection between what someone was saying and a person's death. You also need to prove that there was an intention of the person discussing or promoting and someone acting."

    In 2001, Mr Kelly's son Simon took his own life after obtaining instructions from a an internet suicide website. According to Mr Kelly, the 18-year-old had also been given the "psychological encouragement to go ahead" for a suicide chat room.

    "There are positive sites people can access," he says. "Somebody feeling very distressed or suicidal, and who cannot immediately get hold of their family or friends, could seek help from such UK organisations as the Samaritans or Papyrus .

    "There are alternatives - medical help, therapies and more importantly the help of family and friends. There is not just one solution."

    He says that suicidal thoughts are very often "temporary" and that people do recover. "If necessary people should seek professional help."

    There are no official figures for how many people have taken their own lives as a result of visiting online sites, but Mr Kelly says that Papyrus has tracked 39 such cases since 2001.

    Mr Kelly says he would like to see an independent body set up to deal with complaints about potential "life threatening sites", and to be given the authority to block them if necessary.

    "I believe Germany, France and Portugal have laws allowing such sites to be blacklisted, but I don't know how effective they are," he says.

    A number of other countries have moved to try to limit the scope of such websites (see sidebar).

    But, for Celia Blay, although she has nothing but praise for investigators in Minnesota, her long and tireless effort has led her to conclude that, generally: "Suicidal people have low priority in every country."
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    Re: Man gets his kicks by convincing depressed people to commit suicide in chatrooms

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/us_and_canada/10158690.stm

    snipped
    A judge in the US state of Minnesota has ordered a former nurse accused of encouraging suicide on the internet to stay offline.

    William Melchert-Dinkel, 47, is charged in connection with the deaths of Briton Mark Drybrough in 2005, and Canadian Nadia Kajouji in 2008.

    He allegedly posed as a female nurse, advising people in chatrooms on how to take their own lives.

    He reportedly admitted helping up to five people kill themselves.

    During Mr Melchert-Dinkel's first court appearance in Rice County, Minnesota, the judge ordered him to stay offline while the case was pending.

    The former nurse did not speak in court except to say he understood the charges, the Associated Press reports. The judge set the next court date for 29 June.

    If convicted, Mr Melchert-Dinkel faces up to 15 years in prison.
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    Re: Man gets his kicks by convincing depressed people to commit suicide in chatrooms

    What a sack of dung
    <br />It&#39;s always funny until someone gets hurt, And then it&#39;s fucking hilarious

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    He got his sentence reversed

    A former nurse from the USA who encouraged a Coventry man to take his own life has had his conviction reversed on appeal.

    William Melchert-Dinkel was jailed in 2011 for aiding the suicides of Mark Drybrough, 32, from Coventry, and Canadian Nadia Kajouji, 18.

    Melchert-Dinkel, 51, told police he befriended suicidal people on the internet for the "thrill of the chase".

    On Wednesday, the former nurse had his jail sentence put on hold.

    Mr Drybrough hanged himself in 2005 and Ms Kajouji died by jumping into a river in 2008.

    Elaine Drybrough, Mark's mother, said Melchert-Dinkel had been encouraging suicide "for years before their deaths, probably because he enjoyed it".

    "What Melchert-Dinkel did was immoral but whether or not it's illegal is another matter and is to be decided by the courts," she added.

    Right to free speech
    Melchert-Dinkel served 320 days in prison and, as part of his sentence, had to return to jail for two days on the anniversaries of the two suicides each year until 2022.


    A Minnesota Supreme Court ruled the language in the US law that pertains to "encouraging" suicide was unconstitutional, but upheld the part of the law that bans "assisting" suicide.

    It decided to reverse Melchert-Dinkel's requirement to return to jail for the remaining anniversaries.

    Melchert-Dinkel's lawyer argued he was exercising his right to free speech and had no influence on either person's actions.

    According to court documents, he acknowledged participating in online chats about suicide with up to 20 people and entered into fake suicide pacts with about 10, five of whom he believed killed themselves.

    In July 2012, an appeals court panel ruled the state's assisted suicide law was constitutional, and that Melchert-Dinkel's speech was not protected by the First Amendment.

    In light of Wednesday's ruling Melchert-Dinkel's case has now been referred to a lower court.
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  17. #67
    Senior Member animosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lulupop View Post
    He got his sentence reversed
    geez lulu. i had never heard about this guy until today. i'm glad you are still around! this must be hard news for you.
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    I'm much better now, thanks animosity :) I'm very angry for the families affected by this arsehole though, I can't believe he had the nerve to appeal. I hope this haunts him forever.
    beli : Cunt fingers. Just like butterfingers, only cuntier.

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