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Thread: Rachel Wade (19) stabbed Sarah Ludemann (18) to death over an on-again, off-again boyfriend

  1. #26
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    Re: Rachel Wade (19) stabbed Sarah Ludemann (18) to death over an on-again, off-

    [quote author=butterflykim link=topic=19473.msg1250766#msg1250766 date=1239918507]
    this whole story is just fucked.
    i agree, the girls are ultimately at fault, but karma will come back around for him.
    [/quote]

    I don't think this is a matter of Karma...someone died, yeah, but it isn't his fault directly and I would certainly hate for that to happen again. He is a teenage boy - I am sure he just liked the attention. Let's just hope he's learned a lesson - it's all fun and games until someone gets hurt.
    Balls.

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    Re: Rachel Wade (19) stabbed Sarah Ludemann (18) to death over an on-again, off-again boyfriend

    a comment from truecrimereport.com:

    hercuzo said:
    bethany
    noo hunn yuhh knoww wrongg ,
    rachel probably DID kill her in self defence .
    rachel was my older cuzin ,
    and i cant belive this has happend .
    but really you need to shutt yuor mouth and never ever talk down about my cuzin like that
    i know she was a good personn .
    i knoww she would nott have done thiss over some boy
    soo there must have been somthing els too .
    and now i gotta go visit her in jaill :[

    anyone else think it's only a matter of days until "hercuzo" (which i think translates into "her cousin") shows up on this thread?

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    Always stuck in the past dementedeeyore's Avatar
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    Re: Rachel Wade (19) stabbed Sarah Ludemann (18) to death over an on-again, off-again boyfriend

    Looking at the blingy page in his pics (ugg and disturbing, by the way), I noticed the photobooth pic of him and Sarah. What is all the fuss about? He's fug, and not in that hard, street, bad boy kind of way. Look, it's like two chicks.

    It won't let me link directly, I guess. But dude looks like a lady.
    Sad, how girls are willing to ruin their lives over thug scum like that.

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    Re: Rachel Wade (19) stabbed Sarah Ludemann (18) to death over an on-again, off-

    [quote author=Crewsinn link=topic=19473.msg1251022#msg1251022 date=1239940736]
    a comment from truecrimereport.com:


    anyone else think it's only a matter of days until "hercuzo" (which i think translates into "her cousin") shows up on this thread?
    [/quote]

    Haha I think it's only a matter of days before ANY of her friends show up on this page.



    Balls.

  5. #30
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    Re: Rachel Wade (19) stabbed Sarah Ludemann (18) to death over an on-again, off-

    [quote author=kateisgr3at link=topic=19473.msg1251052#msg1251052 date=1239942947]
    Haha I think it's only a matter of days before ANY of her friends show up on this page.




    [/quote]

    HAHA! does he do that a lot? or just 'special occasions' like these? as you can tell, i'm still a noob.  :oops:

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    Re: Rachel Wade (19) stabbed Sarah Ludemann (18) to death over an on-again, off-

    [quote author=dementedeeyore link=topic=19473.msg1251037#msg1251037 date=1239941751]
    Looking at the blingy page in his pics (ugg and disturbing, by the way), I noticed the photobooth pic of him and Sarah. What is all the fuss about? He's fug, and not in that hard, street, bad boy kind of way. Look, it's like two chicks.

    It won't let me link directly, I guess. But dude looks like a lady.
    Sad, how girls are willing to ruin their lives over thug scum like that.
    [/quote]



    I hope that when the world comes to an end, I can breathe a sigh of relief, because there will be so much to look forward to. - Donnie Darko

  7. #32
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    Re: Rachel Wade (19) stabbed Sarah Ludemann (18) to death over an on-again, off-again boyfriend

    [quote author=nestlequikie link=topic=19473.msg1251066#msg1251066 date=1239943575]



    [/quote]
    Aww, thanks nestle. I was having all kinds of trouble with that and felt too lazy to save it and stuff. But you can see what I mean...

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    Re: Rachel Wade (19) stabbed Sarah Ludemann (18) to death over an on-again, off-again boyfriend

    There must be a shortage of men in their town or something.  I don't get why anyone would want to hook up with that freak...much less fight over him repeatedly.


    Police: Fight over boyfriend ends with fatal stabbing

    By STEPHEN THOMPSON | The Tampa Tribune

    An 18-year-old Pinellas Park high school student was fatally stabbed this morning after she and another teenager got into a fight over a boyfriend, Pinellas Park police said.

    Sarah Ludemann died within an hour of being stabbed at 12:46 a.m., Capt. Sanfield Forseth said. The other woman involved in the fight, Rachel Wade, 19, was charged with second-degree murder, Forseth said.

    Before the stabbing, Ludemann and Wade had been arguing with each other regarding a boyfriend, Forseth said. Ludemann, who lived at 5570 96th Terrace, was aware that Wade, who lives in Largo, was at 9821 52nd St. visiting a friend, so she went there to confront her, Forseth said.

    When Ludemann showed up, Wade went over to Ludemann's van and the two started fighting, with Wade pulling a kitchen knife and stabbing Ludemann with it, Forseth said. Investigators later found the weapon on a rooftop.

    A neighbor, Shane Walsh, said he tried to keep Ludemann alert after the stabbing until police and the ambulance arrived.

    "I was holding her arm and saying, 'Please come on, stay with us, you stay with us and holding the shirt until the officer came.'''

    Wade was booked into the Pinellas County Jail on a charge of second-degree murder.

    The boyfriend is Joshua Camacho, a 19-year-old who lives in the area. On Aug. 31, Ludemann and Wade got into an argument over him that drew police attention, Forseth said. Camacho was dating both at the time, Forseth said.

    That day, Ludemann reported that Wade kept calling her, Forseth said. Ludemann said Wade was threatening Ludemann and had called her more than 20 times over a two-hour period. But, when interviewed by police, Wade countered that Ludemann had sent her threatening e-mails.

    When questioned by police, Camacho acknowledged dating both teens and said he was seeing Ludemann behind Wade's back. He told police he thought Ludemann was trying to bait Wade into a fight.

    The officer then talked with Ludemann, the original complainant.

    "I returned to Ludemann, and she agreed to not contact Wade via telephone or e-mail but stated that she just wanted it documented in case Wade followed through with her threats," Forseth said, quoting from a police report.

    Wade was previously arrested, on April 1, 2008, Forseth said. She and a different boyfriend got into a fight and she was determined by police officers "to be the primary aggressor," Forseth said. A charge of domestic battery was filed, but later dropped.

    The two were fighting because the boyfriend, Nicholas Daignault, didn't like the people she was hanging around with. Wade admitted to grabbing Daignault by the back of the shirt, causing it to rip, but said she did so only to get her cell phone back, Forseth said, reading from a police report.

    But that wasn't the only time Pinellas Park police had contact with Wade or with Ludemann or Camacho, who fathered a child with a different woman named Erin Slothower, Forseth said:

    *On Nov. 8, Wade and Camacho got into a fight at Wade's apartment where, she said, Camacho broke the door chain, Forseth said. She didn't claim he struck her, the spokesman said.

    *On Oct. 21, Slothower, 19, and an 18-year-old named Jamie Lynn Severino who was seeing Camacho's brother, Jamie complained Wade was making threatening telephone calls to Severino regarding Slothower because of Slothower's previous relationship with Joshua Camacho, Forseth said. It was unknown whether any action was taken because of the complaint.

    *On Aug. 29, Slothower complained that Joshua Camacho was calling the pizza place where she worked and began verbally abusing her, a police report states. Ludemann then showed up at the pizza place and began verbally abusing Slothower, at which point Ludemann was asked to leave the property, Forseth said.

    *On July 30, Wade complained to police that she and a friend went to a Taco Bell after finishing their shift at an Applebee's, when a white Nissan pulled in, Forseth said. In the Nissan were Ludemann and five other girls. Ludemann was upset because Wade was then dating Joshua Camacho and Ludemann and he had just broken up, Forseth said.

    Wade claimed the Nissan followed her and her companion from Taco Bell and at one point the occupants of the Nissan sprayed aerosol string at them in traffic, Forseth said.

    *On July 2, Ludemann and Slothower were accused of following Joshua Camacho because he was sleeping with both of them without the two knowing it, Forseth said. At one point, he got out of his car, walked to Ludemann's vehicle, and punched Ludemann, but neither Ludemann nor her mother wanted to prosecute, Forseth said.

    *On Feb. 21, 2008, Joshua Camacho claimed Slothower hit him in the face with an open hand and pushed him backward, Forseth said. Ludemann and Severino were witnesses, but no charges were filed.

    Both Ludemann and Wade have MySpace pages that contain romantic thoughts.

    Ludemann described her mood as "iloveyoubaby" and featured a quote: "true love; when you look at him and you can see your entire future in his eyes."

    Wade's MySpace page described her mood as "lovin my boo" and herself as "a pretty simple girl with the occasional complicated thought."

    "i've just recently noticed that i'm a hopeless romantic and that i would love to have someone like in the chick flicks. a surefire way to win me over is to buy me chinese food, redbull, or starbucks," she wrote. "i'm always down to meet new people, so be my friend, i swear i'm nice most of the time :) "

    http://www2.tbo.com/content/2009/apr...atal-stabbing/

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    Re: Rachel Wade (19) stabbed Sarah Ludemann (18) to death over an on-again, off-

    [quote author=dementedeeyore link=topic=19473.msg1251073#msg1251073 date=1239943979]
    Aww, thanks nestle. I was having all kinds of trouble with that and felt too lazy to save it and stuff. But you can see what I mean...
    [/quote]

    You are welcome.  And, yes, I do see exactly what you mean. 

    So sad.  Sarah's life is over.    Rachel's is ruined.  Over him.  Wow.  And it is even worse if he egged this on in any way.

      RIP Sarah
    I hope that when the world comes to an end, I can breathe a sigh of relief, because there will be so much to look forward to. - Donnie Darko

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    Re: Rachel Wade (19) stabbed Sarah Ludemann (18) to death over an on-again, off-again boyfriend

    how is she only charged with second degree murder?

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Second-degree murder is ordinarily defined as 1) an intentional killing that is not premeditated or planned, nor committed in a reasonable "heat of passion" or 2) a killing caused by dangerous conduct and the offender's obvious lack of concern for human life. Second-degree murder may best be viewed as the middle ground between first-degree murder and voluntary manslaughter.

    doesnt the fact that she was outside, and had a kitchen knife with her show premeditation?  where the hell is femme to explain this stuff? 

    FEMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMEEEEEEEEEEE :2angry:
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    Re: Rachel Wade (19) stabbed Sarah Ludemann (18) to death over an on-again, off-

    [quote author=Jeneris link=topic=19473.msg1251090#msg1251090 date=1239945214]

    The boyfriend is Joshua Camacho, a 19-year-old who lives in the area. On Aug. 31, Ludemann and Wade got into an argument over him that drew police attention, Forseth said. Camacho was dating both at the time, Forseth said.

    That day, Ludemann reported that Wade kept calling her, Forseth said. Ludemann said Wade was threatening Ludemann and had called her more than 20 times over a two-hour period. But, when interviewed by police, Wade countered that Ludemann had sent her threatening e-mails.

    When questioned by police, Camacho acknowledged dating both teens and said he was seeing Ludemann behind Wade's back. He told police he thought Ludemann was trying to bait Wade into a fight.

    [/quote]

    I don't see how he was doing anything behind anyone's back...he wasn't that smart about it...

    Her MySpace Status:



    One of his comments 3 days later:




    Nice job covering your tracks, Playa!

    Oh, and:



    :lol:




    Balls.

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    Re: Rachel Wade (19) stabbed Sarah Ludemann (18) to death over an on-again, off-

    [quote author=neenerneener link=topic=19473.msg1251100#msg1251100 date=1239945975]
    how is she only charged with second degree murder?


    doesnt the fact that she was outside, and had a kitchen knife with her show premeditation?  where the hell is femme to explain this stuff? 

    FEMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMEEEEEEEEEEE :2angry:

    [/quote]



    Sarah went over to Rachel's house (or the house she was at) to confront her and Rachel stabbed her. Had Rachel just went over to Sarah's house and killed her for no reason...then it would be 1st degree murder.


    ETA:

    Murder: First Degree
    In most states, first-degree murder is defined as an unlawful killing that is both willful and premeditated, meaning that it was committed after planning or "lying in wait" for the victim.

    For example, Dan comes home to find his wife in bed with Victor. Three days later, Dan waits behind a tree near Victor's front door. When Victor comes out of the house, Dan shoots and kills him.
    Balls.

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    Re: Rachel Wade (19) stabbed Sarah Ludemann (18) to death over an on-again, off-

    [quote author=kateisgr3at link=topic=19473.msg1251119#msg1251119 date=1239946903]


    Sarah went over to Rachel's house (or the house she was at) to confront her and Rachel stabbed her. Had Rachel just went over to Sarah's house and killed her for no reason...then it would be 1st degree murder.


    ETA:

    [/quote]

    but it says planning or lying in wait.  she wasnt lying in wait, but she had a kitchen knife with her, outside which means she thought about it...aka premeditation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron_NYC
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    Re: Rachel Wade (19) stabbed Sarah Ludemann (18) to death over an on-again, off-

    [quote author=neenerneener link=topic=19473.msg1251132#msg1251132 date=1239948097]
    but it says planning or lying in wait.  she wasnt lying in wait, but she had a kitchen knife with her, outside which means she thought about it...aka premeditation.
    [/quote]

    Maybe she always carries a kitchen knife with her? 

    Sounds like it was an argument that got carried way too far.  I wonder if she's remorseful.

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    Re: Rachel Wade (19) stabbed Sarah Ludemann (18) to death over an on-again, off-

    [quote author=neenerneener link=topic=19473.msg1251132#msg1251132 date=1239948097]
    but it says planning or lying in wait.  she wasnt lying in wait, but she had a kitchen knife with her, outside which means she thought about it...aka premeditation.
    [/quote]

    She brought the knife out there with the intention of using it...but not necessarily with the intention of killing her with it.  Had Rachel gone to Sarah's house and walked up to her and stabbed her multiple times, then it would be premeditated because she planned to go there with a knife and the intention of killing her.

    They place 2nd degree murder in between 1st degree murder and voluntary manslaughter. She didn't say "Hey, I am going to go kill Sarah" and then go do it (1st degree)... but she didn't grab the knife in the heat of the moment to stab her, either (voluntary manslaughter).

    Balls.

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    Re: Rachel Wade (19) stabbed Sarah Ludemann (18) to death over an on-again, off-again boyfriend

    If some chick who I have been having beef with showed up where I was staying, I may go out with a weapon "just in case".  I can see a possible self defense plea working here.  The article states they were fighting before Sarah was stabbed.  Seems to me Sarah went to the house where Rachel was probably looking for a fight.  Its not like she stabbed her 57938758 times.  Seems to be just one stab that hit the spot.  She didn't bludgeon the girl in cold murder.

    It is a shame that this happened.  I can see how it could be second degree murder or self defense, depending on the details that we aren't privy to.  Or maybe I am sleep deprived and not reading this right. It's a toss up.

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    Re: Rachel Wade (19) stabbed Sarah Ludemann (18) to death over an on-again, off-

    [quote author=kateisgr3at link=topic=19473.msg1251153#msg1251153 date=1239949394]
    She brought the knife out there with the intention of using it...but not necessarily with the intention of killing her with it.  Had Rachel gone to Sarah's house and walked up to her and stabbed her multiple times, then it would be premeditated because she planned to go there with a knife and the intention of killing her.

    They place 2nd degree murder in between 1st degree murder and voluntary manslaughter. She didn't say "Hey, I am going to go kill Sarah" and then go do it (1st degree)... but she didn't grab the knife in the heat of the moment to stab her, either (voluntary manslaughter).


    [/quote]

    what intention would she have, other than to kill her? 
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron_NYC
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    Re: Rachel Wade (19) stabbed Sarah Ludemann (18) to death over an on-again, off-again boyfriend

    [quote author=berryblu link=topic=19473.msg1251163#msg1251163 date=1239949876]
    It is a shame that this happened.  I can see how it could be second degree murder or self defense, depending on the details that we aren't privy to.  Or maybe I am sleep deprived and not reading this right. It's a toss up.
    [/quote]

    I don't think self-defense will fly.  She could have stayed in the house & called 911.  The knife was probably brought out to scare the other girl.  Who knows though....they could have been threatening each other like this for months & this time it finally happened.  Such a stupid reason to die.....over a loser bf.

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    Re: Rachel Wade (19) stabbed Sarah Ludemann (18) to death over an on-again, off-

    [quote author=neenerneener link=topic=19473.msg1251164#msg1251164 date=1239949886]
    what intention would she have, other than to kill her?   
    [/quote]

    She stabbed her once and it killed her. Had she intended to kill her, she probably would have stabbed her more than that.

    Just like, okay...You and I are mad at each other and I see you out somewhere and we start arguing and you hit me  with a beer bottle. When you hit me, the bottle shattered and cut into a main artery and I bleed to death. 2nd degree murder. Why? Because while you meant to hurt me with the beer bottle...you didn't necessarily mean to kill me with it.

    Now, say you and I are mad at each other and you come over to my house. You then walk in, pull out the gun and shoot me in the head. 1st degree murder

    Balls.

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    Re: Rachel Wade (19) stabbed Sarah Ludemann (18) to death over an on-again, off-

    [quote author=kateisgr3at link=topic=19473.msg1251153#msg1251153 date=1239949394]
    She brought the knife out there with the intention of using it...but not necessarily with the intention of killing her with it.  Had Rachel gone to Sarah's house and walked up to her and stabbed her multiple times, then it would be premeditated because she planned to go there with a knife and the intention of killing her.

    They place 2nd degree murder in between 1st degree murder and voluntary manslaughter. She didn't say "Hey, I am going to go kill Sarah" and then go do it (1st degree)... but she didn't grab the knife in the heat of the moment to stab her, either (voluntary manslaughter).


    [/quote]

    yeah, but my point is this...what intention does one usually have when stabbing someone?  you stab to kill.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron_NYC
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    Re: Rachel Wade (19) stabbed Sarah Ludemann (18) to death over an on-again, off-again boyfriend

    [quote author=neenerneener link=topic=19473.msg1251181#msg1251181 date=1239950884]
    yeah, but my point is this...what intention does one usually have when stabbing someone?  you stab to kill.
    [/quote]

    Not for sure.  I stabbed my hubby in the hand with a fork when he tried to steal my taco.  I didnt do it to kill him.  I just wanted him to leave my damn taco alone.

    For real though.  If they were fighting, she may have just wanted to hurt the girl to make her stop.  The exact place of the stab was probably not even measured.  Then again, maybe it was.

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    Re: Rachel Wade (19) stabbed Sarah Ludemann (18) to death over an on-again, off-

    [quote author=berryblu link=topic=19473.msg1251163#msg1251163 date=1239949876]
    If some chick who I have been having beef with showed up where I was staying, I may go out with a weapon "just in case".  I can see a possible self defense plea working here.  The article states they were fighting before Sarah was stabbed.  Seems to me Sarah went to the house where Rachel was probably looking for a fight.  Its not like she stabbed her 57938758 times.  Seems to be just one stab that hit the spot.  She didn't bludgeon the girl in cold murder.

    It is a shame that this happened.  I can see how it could be second degree murder or self defense, depending on the details that we aren't privy to.  Or maybe I am sleep deprived and not reading this right. It's a toss up.
    [/quote]

    Exactly!

    As for self-defense?  I am not even sure that they were "physically" fighting. It says Rachel walked over to her van, they started fighting and Rachel stabbed her...but it may have just been verbal. If that were the case, she couldn't really claim self-defense.

    Balls.

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    Re: Rachel Wade (19) stabbed Sarah Ludemann (18) to death over an on-again, off-again boyfriend

    [quote author=kateisgr3at link=topic=19473.msg1251188#msg1251188 date=1239951219]
    Exactly!

    As for self-defense?  I am not even sure that they were "physically" fighting. It says Rachel walked over to her van, they started fighting and Rachel stabbed her...but it may have just been verbal. If that were the case, she couldn't really claim self-defense.


    [/quote]


    True.  My thinking is the way they seemed to be arguing back and forth in text and e-mail for a while, making threats, Sarah was probably looking for a fight.  Jealousy is a bitch and this guy was eating it up.

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    Re: Rachel Wade (19) stabbed Sarah Ludemann (18) to death over an on-again, off-again boyfriend

    [quote author=berryblu link=topic=19473.msg1251187#msg1251187 date=1239951170]
    Not for sure.  I stabbed my hubby in the hand with a fork when he tried to steal my taco.  I didnt do it to kill him.  I just wanted him to leave my damn taco alone.

    For real though.  If they were fighting, she may have just wanted to hurt the girl to make her stop.  The exact place of the stab was probably not even measured.  Then again, maybe it was.
    [/quote]

    i totally LOL'd :lol: :lol: :lol:



    and...

    Ludemann had just pulled up in a green minivan, police say, when Wade met her at the driver's side door and stabbed her.

    http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/article992465.ece

    so ludemann just arrived, and wade just walked up and stabbed her.  :|
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron_NYC
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    Re: Rachel Wade (19) stabbed Sarah Ludemann (18) to death over an on-again, off-

    [quote author=neenerneener link=topic=19473.msg1251181#msg1251181 date=1239950884]
    yeah, but my point is this...what intention does one usually have when stabbing someone?  you stab to kill.
    [/quote]

    Neener! You're killing me here!  :lol: j/k..I am actually the same way...I ask lots of questions.

    1st degree murder is intentional murder. It means you kill someone because you had the intention of killing them. Not hurting them a little, not hurting them a lot, not causing a bunch of horrible injuries that will forever change someones life...but taking away their life. Killing them.

    If she intended to kill her when she got there...she wouldn't have taken the time to argue with her and all that crap...she would have flat out walked up to her and started stabbing the hell out of her. But she didn't...she argued, and then stabbed her once. Hell, the neighbor even came over and helped keep her alert until the paramedics got there. If she had intended to kill her, she would have made sure it happened right then and there.



    Balls.

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