Jodi Ann Arias shot and stabbed her ex-boyfriend Travis Alexander to death

[Obs3ssion]

[quote author=browneyes106 link=topic=16212.msg1230189#msg1230189 date=1238336372]
I agree with you and the other poster. He does sound like an idiot. Seriously if he couldn't finish high school after a fifth year he should have just dropped out and got a GED. My mom's friend's daughter is 19 was a fifth year senior still in high school. Back in December the school told my mom's friend that her daughter wouldn't be able to graduate this May. The mom then made her daughter drop out and told her to a get a GED because it was pointless for the girl to spend another year in high school.  I kind of laughed when he said he couldn't pass pre-algebra in college. Math is my weak subject but I never had to take pre-algebra in college. His story sounds really fishy and so does Travis.
[/quote]

PPL is an MLM. MLMs, in general, prey on people who are lowly educated but highly ambitious and somewhat greedy (unambitious will do just fine as well as long as they have good enough credit to pay the "start-up" fee).

Utah is the highest concentration of MLMs in the country. Some are started/headed up by Mormons, and Mormons tend to be more "at risk" for becoming a victim of MLM/pyramid schemes. Why? Several reasons...(1) Devout Mormons tithe 10% and have a big family. Moms often stay home to care for kids. They are more vulnerable to the "make extra money in a few hours per week" and "make executive income for part-time hours" spiels. (2) Large family = lots of potential recruits for the pyramid. Recruiters tell new recruits to come to their first meeting with 6 "references" which, they later find out, is the "warm market" they can immediately recruit more people from. (3) Large, insular community = even more potential recruits.

MLMs are like cults - they know exactly what to say to lure you in, no matter what your situation. The more hard-luck your back story is, the better - because you can use it in your speeches to the new recruits - "See how horrible my life was? Then I found PPL and with just a little work, I'm a millionaire! If I can do it, you can too...ya just gotta BELIEVE to ACHIEVE, show up to go up, raise your 'deserve' level...etc." What they don't tell anyone is that like only 1/2% of all people make above a living wage....and yet they convince you to quit your job...if you would only attend one more meeting, one more conference, buy one more "training" CD, listen to 30 more minutes of affirmations per day, purchase a few more brochures to give out...success is always just around the corner if you'll only invest a little more in your "business."

The REAL money in MLMs, beside recruiting new victims, is in developing training "tools" and getting yourself on the seminar/meeting circuit. I believe that's where Travis was headed - he was writing a "motivational book" that could be sold to the PPL captive audience - and he was already traveling to speak at his area's and other executives' area meetings.

Young guys who are materialistic can get drawn in, even those with the best of intentions. In MY mind, in my belief system, being involved with MLM does not jive with caring about other people's well being (emotionally or financially) because you are preying on vulnerable people. But they are very powerful, their mind control is frightening and good people can get sucked in and invest so much before they realize that they are part of the cult...and at that point it's almost impossible to quit, your whole life is invested. That's why they often recruit husband/wife teams in these MLMs.

Interestingly, a lot of the same top guys go from one MLM to another, making the top money, starting new MLMs when the "market" of the previous scam dries up...

In the end, they're all so similar...PPL, Primerica, Ameriplan, ACN, Mary Kay, Amway/Quixtar, Monavie, Usana, Herbalife...the list goes on and on...

[puzzld]

[quote author=Obs3ssion link=topic=16212.msg1230300#msg1230300 date=1238347561]
In MY mind, in my belief system, being involved with MLM does not jive with caring about other people's well being (emotionally or financially) because you are preying on vulnerable people. [/quote]
Good analysis.  I would quibble with this statement a bit though.  Many of the participants are true believers and think they are doing you a favor.  Not preying on you.  In that sense, the kinder you are the more you push your needy friend to buy in.

[Obs3ssion]

[quote author=puzzld link=topic=16212.msg1230305#msg1230305 date=1238347880]
Good analysis.  I would quibble with this statement a bit though.  Many of the participants are true believers and think they are doing you a favor.  Not preying on you.  In that sense, the kinder you are the more you push your needy friend to buy in.
[/quote]That's why I said "in MY belief system" - because I am not the type to get lured in by the cultish, mind-controlling tactics they use to overcome peoples' common sense. If you look at many MLMs, they all use the exact same tactics in order to recruit people. Why? Because they are time-tested and they work. So even good people can get sucked in and believe that they are offering someone else the opportunity of a lifetime. Not until (if ever) they truly get out of the cult do they realize the damage they have caused to people by recruiting them into the pyramid.

[delta9]

I thought it was already established that this company is full of douchebags.

you just have to look at the pics to realize that.  :|

[Hotsauce McGilacuty]

[quote author=delta9 link=topic=16212.msg1230314#msg1230314 date=1238348097]
I thought it was already established that this company is full of douchebags.

you just have to look at the pics to realize that.  :|
[/quote]

pretty much

[Its Me De]

what does MLM stand for? 

[puzzld]

http://www.mlmwatch.org/

[Its Me De]

[quote author=puzzld link=topic=16212.msg1230371#msg1230371 date=1238350142]
http://www.mlmwatch.org/

[/quote]


Thanks, It drives me nuts when I don't know what the letters stand for especially on custom license plates 8-)

[mousygirl]

jesus.  chris hughes misspells his own name in not one, but two places on his little PPL page.  and maybe it is just my impression of high school, but i feel like you didn't have to be that smart to make it through.  it's probably just my bias, but i feel like you have to be pretty damn lazy to need 7 years to finish HS.

[mousygirl]

Travis' page wasn't so bad-- though someone should have acquainted that kid with the comma. 

[GGluvsBC]

You guys are funny!  Yeah...I was also involved with PPL briefly and I made enough money to quite my job.  BUT after trying to use my "insurance" I quit selling it because I was very disappointed by the service.  You don't need to question Travis' integrity regarding PPL...he and Chris Hughes (who is not an idiot) both got involved early enough in the game to make a lot of money.  Amway is "technically" not a scam but a legit business opportunity if you wanna alienate yourself from your friends and family and have people run the opposite direction when they see you coming but it's not "technically" a scam.  If any of us were lucky enough to get involved in the early stages we would be millionaires.  PPL was a good concept but like most MLM's...it eventually saturates and there just isn't much opportunity left.  Travis & Chris really have helped many people in their lives.  Some of my family is still involved in PPL and make good money at it (I was once one of them).  I just can't get behind a program that provided me such lousy service.  My mother and brother on the other hand have had great experiences...so I dunno...it's a crapshoot!  Mormon's are very, VERY family oriented and are ALWAYS looking for ways to cut back time at the office to spend more time with their families which is why (I think) they are so drawn to home based businesses.

LOL...Back to Chris...trust me...he is intelligent.  He was just a non-motivated person in his youth.  He didn't see himself the way others saw him...he is quite dynamic but I think he had terribly low self esteem when he was young!  As far as Travis...damn guys...he was HIGHLY abused in his youth.  Lets not forget that.  He came out of it and was a success story which is why this tragedy is so horrible.  People like this should ride off in to the sunset not get slashed in to tiny pieces by some psycho bitch!  Nuff said!  Hope this post was some what helpful.

[bowieluva]

PPL is like Landmark, right? That's all such a hand job. Def, pyramid scheme. Just save the money and buy a self help book.

[GGluvsBC]

[quote author=bowieluva link=topic=16212.msg1230453#msg1230453 date=1238353895]
PPL is like Landmark, right? That's all such a hand job. Def, pyramid scheme. Just save the money and buy a self help book.
[/quote]

I've never heard of Landmark. 

PPL is Legal Insurance.  You pay a monthly fee and you (supposedly) have access to legal help/advice/trial defense, etc.  I tried to use it a couple of times for speeding tickets but they wouldn't help me because the court was allllll the way out in Palm Springs and the law office was located in Los Angeles.  I hated the way I was treated but like I said...others have had wonderful service.  My mother was a victim of Identity Theft and they fixed her credit for her and she didn't have to pay anything out of pocket except her monthly fee....so whatever...form your own opinions.  I don't hate the company but I don't really believe in it either.  I think you have to be in love with prospecting to be successful.  They are always pitching their business to everybody from the waitress serving their lunch to the grocery store clerk while shopping.  Not for me and I'm in the insurance industry!

That said....Travis was NOT a con artist.  He really wasn't.  Nor is Chris Hughes.  They are both lovely people who don't want to have traditional jobs...which is fine.  It's not for everybody.  They are not breaking the law...and they are NOT murderers! 

[delta9]

[quote author=GGluvsBC link=topic=16212.msg1230511#msg1230511 date=1238358695]
I've never heard of Landmark. 

PPL is Legal Insurance.  You pay a monthly fee and you (supposedly) have access to legal help/advice/trial defense, etc.  I tried to use it a couple of times for speeding tickets but they wouldn't help me because the court was allllll the way out in Palm Springs and the law office was located in Los Angeles.  I hated the way I was treated but like I said...others have had wonderful service.  My mother was a victim of Identity Theft and they fixed her credit for her and she didn't have to pay anything out of pocket except her monthly fee....so whatever...form your own opinions.  I don't hate the company but I don't really believe in it either.  I think you have to be in love with prospecting to be successful.  They are always pitching their business to everybody from the waitress serving their lunch to the grocery store clerk while shopping.  Not for me and I'm in the insurance industry!

That said....Travis was NOT a con artist.  He really wasn't.  Nor is Chris Hughes.  They are both lovely people who don't want to have traditional jobs...which is fine.  It's not for everybody.  They are not breaking the law...and they are NOT murderers!   
[/quote]

sales is pretty traditional, no?

[GGluvsBC]

[quote author=delta9 link=topic=16212.msg1230512#msg1230512 date=1238359008]
sales is pretty traditional, no?
[/quote]

Nah...MLM is really not traditional.  I mean they work when they want to...no time clock...they can sleep till noon if they want (if they have the money to do so, that is.)  Chris is home with his wife and kids everyday.

I'm in traditional insurance sales and there is a definite difference.  I work hard and I don't mind working for a living!  I felt like a pain in the ass when I was in Pre-Paid.  I don't like having to "pitch" my loved ones.  That is what it takes to make a MLM work...you need to keep the wheel rolling. 

[delta9]

[quote author=GGluvsBC link=topic=16212.msg1230511#msg1230511 date=1238358695]
I've never heard of Landmark. 

PPL is Legal Insurance.  You pay a monthly fee and you (supposedly) have access to legal help/advice/trial defense, etc.  I tried to use it a couple of times for speeding tickets but they wouldn't help me because the court was allllll the way out in Palm Springs and the law office was located in Los Angeles.  I hated the way I was treated but like I said...others have had wonderful service.  My mother was a victim of Identity Theft and they fixed her credit for her and she didn't have to pay anything out of pocket except her monthly fee....so whatever...form your own opinions.  I don't hate the company but I don't really believe in it either.  I think you have to be in love with prospecting to be successful.  They are always pitching their business to everybody from the waitress serving their lunch to the grocery store clerk while shopping.  Not for me and I'm in the insurance industry!

That said....Travis was NOT a con artist.  He really wasn't.  Nor is Chris Hughes.  They are both lovely people who don't want to have traditional jobs...which is fine.  It's not for everybody.  They are not breaking the law...and they are NOT murderers!   
[/quote]

Sorry, I didn't know Travis, and in no way am I implying he deserved what happened to him.

But people like this drive me fucking nuts.  :lol:

[GGluvsBC]

[quote author=delta9 link=topic=16212.msg1230517#msg1230517 date=1238359397]
Sorry, I didn't know Travis, and in no way am I implying he deserved what happened to him.

But people like this drive me fucking nuts.  :lol:
[/quote]

Hell yeah, me too!  I wasn't offended by what you said.  :2grin:

The only point I wanted to convey was that they do this because they truly believe in it...not because they are slimy or con-artisty...even though this type of business model seems just that!  They just want to be home with their families and that part I respect.  Personally I am not a fan!

ETA:  Hell when you think about it...it makes sense...Mormon's door knock to spread the gospel...I guess it is the next logical step to find a career where they make a pest of themselves after serving a mission.  LMFAO!  No seriously...I can see the connection!

[delta9]

[quote author=GGluvsBC link=topic=16212.msg1230516#msg1230516 date=1238359360]
Nah...MLM is really not traditional.  I mean they work when they want to...no time clock...they can sleep till noon if they want (if they have the money to do so, that is.)  Chris is home with his wife and kids everyday.

I'm in traditional insurance sales and there is a definite difference.  I work hard and I don't mind working for a living!  I felt like a pain in the ass when I was in Pre-Paid.  I don't like having to "pitch" my loved ones.  That is what it takes to make a MLM work...you need to keep the wheel rolling. 
[/quote]

I'm the same. All my friends are in sales, I personally couldn't hound people to buy stuff, when I know how mad it makes me when people do it to me.

In the age of the internet, anyone can find anything if they need it. So really, these people are just trying to sway your decision (because some people just can't say no in person) and make a profit. There really isn't any need for them in my opinion. Most of them think they are slick talkers but in reality I think people just want to be left alone and if that means buying something so that they leave, so be it.

[delta9]

[quote author=GGluvsBC link=topic=16212.msg1230519#msg1230519 date=1238359694]
Hell yeah, me too!  I wasn't offended by what you said.  :2grin:

The only point I wanted to convey was that they do this because they truly believe in it...not because they are slimy or con-artisty...even though this type of business model seems just that!  They just want to be home with their families and that part I respect.  Personally I am not a fan!

ETA:  Hell when you think about it...it makes sense...Mormon's door knock to spread the gospel...I guess it is the next logical step to find a career where they make a pest of themselves after serving a mission.  LMFAO!  No seriously...I can see the connection!
[/quote]

Really? I can't see getting behind a company like this because you really believe in it. Maybe I'm too jaded, but it's not like an animal rescue, or feeding African children.

In my experiences, sales people are in it for the money. First and foremost. In fact I know guys who want out of their sales jobs but because the money is so good they stick with it.

[Jeneris]

[quote author=browneyes106 link=topic=16212.msg1230204#msg1230204 date=1238338324]
I also saw a posting where a person in Oklahoma said she observed a PPL convention that it just seemed like all the PPL people did was talk on their phones.
[/quote]

I'm wondering who uses PPL.  I know a few years back there was a rep at my work (hospital) trying to talk us into it....but who pays for legal advice in advance of even needing it?  Surely not the average person.  Is it for corporations, small business?  Criminals??? 

[Jeneris]

[quote author=Hotsauce McGilacuty link=topic=16212.msg1230128#msg1230128 date=1238311137]
Big Love is about Mormons.
[/quote]

After watching 6 hours of Big Love yesterday, I can second that.  It is indeed about Mormons & the book of Mormon.  Just because the main family doesn't live on a compound, doesn't mean they aren't following the religion. 

[bryanwasdrunk]

[quote author=Jeneris link=topic=16212.msg1230536#msg1230536 date=1238361585]
I'm wondering who uses PPL.  I know a few years back there was a rep at my work (hospital) trying to talk us into it....but who pays for legal advice in advance of even needing it?  Surely not the average person.  Is it for corporations, small business?  Criminals??? 
[/quote]
Well, they certainly don't seem to be helping out our favorite criminal.

[bowieluva]

[quote author=Jeneris link=topic=16212.msg1230537#msg1230537 date=1238361681]
After watching 6 hours of Big Love yesterday, I can second that.  It is indeed about Mormons & the book of Mormon.  Just because the main family doesn't live on a compound, doesn't mean they aren't following the religion. 
[/quote]

Well the compound life is actually totally opposed by the Mormon community. The 'mainstream Mormon' elements of their life involve their interaction within Salt Lake City.

Whatever Travis Alexander did for a living, Jodi Ann Arias is still a complete loon.

[wickedgirl]

[quote author=bryanwasdrunk link=topic=16212.msg1230540#msg1230540 date=1238361857]
Well, they certainly don't seem to be helping out our favorite criminal.
[/quote]
Speak for yourself.
Gary Coleman is my favorite criminal.

[GGluvsBC]

[quote author=delta9 link=topic=16212.msg1230523#msg1230523 date=1238360255]
Really? I can't see getting behind a company like this because you really believe in it. Maybe I'm too jaded, but it's not like an animal rescue, or feeding African children.

In my experiences, sales people are in it for the money. First and foremost. In fact I know guys who want out of their sales jobs but because the money is so good they stick with it.


[/quote]

I'm pickin up what you're puttin down.  The reason they believe so much in this type of company is because they want to stay home with their families and a traditional job would prevent that.  

[quote author=Jeneris link=topic=16212.msg1230537#msg1230537 date=1238361681]
After watching 6 hours of Big Love yesterday, I can second that.  It is indeed about Mormons & the book of Mormon.  Just because the main family doesn't live on a compound, doesn't mean they aren't following the religion. 
[/quote]

Big love gargles my balls!  It is the most ridiculous show I've seen in years.  6 HOURS!  You're an animal...you must be made of steel to withstand that much torture!